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Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Archive Regulations

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  • Philip Semanchuk
    ... I see no reason for that either. Archival records are made available to the public 30 years after the date of their origin according to this page:
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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      On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 14:13, Debbie wrote:
      > Philip,
      > Well, this doesn't sound promising! I don't understand why we can't copy
      > records that are more than 100 years old! These aren't church records!

      I see no reason for that either. "Archival records are made available to
      the public 30 years after the date of their origin" according to this
      page:
      http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/archiwa/korzystanie.eng.html

      > I am sure someone on this list sent the link to the Polish Civil
      > Archives Regulations in English. Evidently I kept the link for the
      > Polish version. Will whomever sent the link for English, please do so
      > again?

      This is the main page for Poland's state archives. Is that what you were
      looking for? I can't find any regulations on the site other than the
      page referenced above.
      http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html

      Cheers
      P
    • Debbie
      Philip, No, that s not the link. The web site, in Polish is: http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html Say, Philip, would you mean asking your friend if he would
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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        Philip,
        No, that's not the link. The web site, in Polish is:
        http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html

        Say, Philip, would you mean asking your friend if he would find out when
        the Przemys~l Civil Archives will be closed next summer for vacation?
        July or August? They won't answer my emails.
        Debbie

        Philip Semanchuk wrote:
        >
        > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 14:13, Debbie wrote:
        > > Philip,
        > > Well, this doesn't sound promising! I don't understand why we can't copy
        > > records that are more than 100 years old! These aren't church records!
        >
        > I see no reason for that either. "Archival records are made available to
        > the public 30 years after the date of their origin" according to this
        > page:
        > http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/archiwa/korzystanie.eng.html
        >
        > > I am sure someone on this list sent the link to the Polish Civil
        > > Archives Regulations in English. Evidently I kept the link for the
        > > Polish version. Will whomever sent the link for English, please do so
        > > again?
        >
        > This is the main page for Poland's state archives. Is that what you were
        > looking for? I can't find any regulations on the site other than the
        > page referenced above.
        > http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html
        > Cheers
        > P
      • Philip Semanchuk
        ... Right, I saw that, but what exactly are you looking for? The page I found was for the state archives in Poland. Are you looking for information specific to
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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          On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 16:32, Debbie wrote:
          > Philip,
          > No, that's not the link. The web site, in Polish is:
          > http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html

          Right, I saw that, but what exactly are you looking for? The page I
          found was for the state archives in Poland. Are you looking for
          information specific to the archive in Warsaw? Is there a difference
          between "civil", "state" and "national" archives?

          > Say, Philip, would you mean asking your friend if he would find out when
          > the Przemys~l Civil Archives will be closed next summer for vacation?
          > July or August? They won't answer my emails.

          Will do. I owe him an email anyway.

          Bye
          P
        • Debbie
          Philip, Civil, state, and national mean the same in the context of Poland s Archiwum Pan~stwowe Pan~stwowe means of the people sort of. Using the term
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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            Philip,
            Civil, state, and national mean the same in the context of Poland's
            "Archiwum Pan~stwowe" Pan~stwowe means "of the people" sort of. Using
            the term civil though, merely points out that reference is not being
            made to the church records.

            The site that I listed gives the actual regulations "we" and presumably
            those who work for the archives, have to follow.
            Debbie

            Philip Semanchuk wrote:
            > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 16:32, Debbie wrote:
            > > Philip,
            > > No, that's not the link. The web site, in Polish is:
            > > http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
            >
            > Right, I saw that, but what exactly are you looking for? The page I
            > found was for the state archives in Poland. Are you looking for
            > information specific to the archive in Warsaw? Is there a difference
            > between "civil", "state" and "national" archives?
            >
            > > Say, Philip, would you mean asking your friend if he would find out when
            > > the Przemys~l Civil Archives will be closed next summer for vacation?
            > > July or August? They won't answer my emails.
            >
            > Will do. I owe him an email anyway.
            > Bye
            > P
          • Philip Semanchuk
            ... That s what I think too, with the exception that civil also covers gmina archives like the one in Bukowsko. Which leaves me wondering what the difference
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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              On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 18:18, Debbie wrote:
              > Philip,
              > Civil, state, and national mean the same in the context of Poland's
              > "Archiwum Pan~stwowe" Pan~stwowe means "of the people" sort of. Using
              > the term civil though, merely points out that reference is not being
              > made to the church records.

              That's what I think too, with the exception that "civil" also covers
              gmina archives like the one in Bukowsko. Which leaves me wondering what
              the difference is between this site:
              http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
              and this one:
              http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html


              P
            • Debbie
              Philip, The link I posted, http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html is, I think, to the State Archive of the Capital City of Warsaw and Mazowia, which is under
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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                Philip,
                The link I posted, http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                is, I think, to the State Archive of the Capital City of Warsaw and
                Mazowia, which is "under" the "Central (main) Archive of Historical
                Records" which is also located in Warsaw. The site is for the archives
                which house the old (older than 100 years) records for the wojewo~dztwo
                Warsaw. Whereas the "Central" Archive is the main office for all the
                archives (old and new) in Poland. Did that make sense?

                The site you listed "belongs" to the "Central (main) Archive of the
                Historical Records" and because it is the "boss", it lists all of the
                archives "under" it; woj. archives and branch offices OF the woj.
                archives.

                I've written this three times in three different ways and I'm still not
                sure I'm explaining it clearly.

                Perhaps seeing the structure will help:
                http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/archiwa/schemorg.eng.html

                Personally, when I refer to gmina records, I don't consider them to be
                "archived" records as they are "current" (less than 100 years old
                supposedly) vital records. When gmina records get old, past 100, then
                they "become" archives and they go to the "State Archive in______, the
                appropriate woj. archive. At this point those records are part of the
                Civil Archives in ______.

                What do you think? Did it make sense?
                Debbie

                Philip Semanchuk wrote:
                >
                > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 18:18, Debbie wrote:
                > > Philip,
                > > Civil, state, and national mean the same in the context of Poland's
                > > "Archiwum Pan~stwowe" Pan~stwowe means "of the people" sort of. Using
                > > the term civil though, merely points out that reference is not being
                > > made to the church records.
                >
                > That's what I think too, with the exception that "civil" also covers
                > gmina archives like the one in Bukowsko. Which leaves me wondering what
                > the difference is between this site:
                > http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                > and this one:
                > http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html
                >
                > P
              • Philip Semanchuk
                ... Yes! ... Mmmmmmmmmmmm, dunno about that bit. What about all of the records 100 years old in the Bukowsko gmina archive? P
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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                  On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 22:48, Debbie wrote:
                  > Philip,
                  > The link I posted, http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                  > is, I think, to the State Archive of the Capital City of Warsaw and
                  > Mazowia, which is "under" the "Central (main) Archive of Historical
                  > Records" which is also located in Warsaw. The site is for the archives
                  > which house the old (older than 100 years) records for the wojewo~dztwo
                  > Warsaw. Whereas the "Central" Archive is the main office for all the
                  > archives (old and new) in Poland. Did that make sense?

                  Yes!

                  > Personally, when I refer to gmina records, I don't consider them to be
                  > "archived" records as they are "current" (less than 100 years old
                  > supposedly) vital records. When gmina records get old, past 100, then
                  > they "become" archives and they go to the "State Archive in______, the
                  > appropriate woj. archive. At this point those records are part of the
                  > Civil Archives in ______.
                  >
                  > What do you think? Did it make sense?

                  Mmmmmmmmmmmm, dunno about that bit. What about all of the records > 100
                  years old in the Bukowsko gmina archive?


                  P
                • Debbie
                  Philip, I addressed that in an email I tossed out. Not everybody follows the rules and Bukowsko gmina, for some reason, hasn t turned over their 100 year old
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 22, 2003
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                    Philip,
                    I addressed that in an email I tossed out.
                    Not everybody follows the rules and Bukowsko gmina, for some reason,
                    hasn't turned over their 100 year old records. I'm guessing that the
                    head office in Warsaw doesn't keep tabs on all the gminas and doesn't
                    enforce the "send them to us" law when records reach a certain age. It's
                    the same with parish records. There are lots of parishes who haven't
                    turned over their records to their diocesan archives.

                    So, even though the records held at gmina Bukowsko ARE more than 100
                    years old, they are still gmina records because that's where they are,
                    at the gmina.
                    Debbie

                    Philip Semanchuk wrote:
                    > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 22:48, Debbie wrote:
                    > > Philip,
                    > > Personally, when I refer to gmina records, I don't consider them to be
                    > > "archived" records as they are "current" (less than 100 years old
                    > > supposedly) vital records. When gmina records get old, past 100, then
                    > > they "become" archives and they go to the "State Archive in______, the
                    > > appropriate woj. archive. At this point those records are part of the
                    > > Civil Archives in ______.
                    > >
                    > > What do you think? Did it make sense?
                    >
                    > Mmmmmmmmmmmm, dunno about that bit. What about all of the records > 100
                    > years old in the Bukowsko gmina archive?
                    > P
                  • josdoc
                    Dear Debbie I think that the important point is that any records which are over 100 years old may legally be copied,and even if still in their possession,they
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 23, 2003
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                      Dear Debbie

                      I think that the important point is that any records which are over 100 years old may legally be copied,and even if still in their possession,they should/must allow copies to be made.

                      Ian
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Debbie
                      To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:34 AM
                      Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Archive Regulations


                      Philip,
                      I addressed that in an email I tossed out.
                      Not everybody follows the rules and Bukowsko gmina, for some reason,
                      hasn't turned over their 100 year old records. I'm guessing that the
                      head office in Warsaw doesn't keep tabs on all the gminas and doesn't
                      enforce the "send them to us" law when records reach a certain age. It's
                      the same with parish records. There are lots of parishes who haven't
                      turned over their records to their diocesan archives.

                      So, even though the records held at gmina Bukowsko ARE more than 100
                      years old, they are still gmina records because that's where they are,
                      at the gmina.
                      Debbie

                      Philip Semanchuk wrote:
                      > On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 22:48, Debbie wrote:
                      > > Philip,
                      > > Personally, when I refer to gmina records, I don't consider them to be
                      > > "archived" records as they are "current" (less than 100 years old
                      > > supposedly) vital records. When gmina records get old, past 100, then
                      > > they "become" archives and they go to the "State Archive in______, the
                      > > appropriate woj. archive. At this point those records are part of the
                      > > Civil Archives in ______.
                      > >
                      > > What do you think? Did it make sense?
                      >
                      > Mmmmmmmmmmmm, dunno about that bit. What about all of the records > 100
                      > years old in the Bukowsko gmina archive?
                      > P

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                    • Debbie
                      Ian, Do you think this would only pertain to a specific family record or should we be allowed to make copies of a whole page(s)? Debbie
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 23, 2003
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                        Ian,
                        Do you think this would only pertain to a specific family record or
                        should we be allowed to make copies of a whole page(s)?
                        Debbie

                        josdoc wrote:
                        > Dear Debbie
                        >
                        > I think that the important point is that any records which are over 100 years old may legally be copied,and even if still in their possession,they should/must allow copies to be made.
                        > Ian
                      • Jan Cesarczyk
                        Hi, Archivum Pan~stwowe means State Archive which in practice means that it is run by some governmental organisation. http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 24, 2003
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                          Hi,
                          "Archivum Pan~stwowe" means "State Archive" which in practice means that it is run by some governmental organisation.
                          http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html is the website of the archive of the city of Warsaw.

                          http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html is the website of the main central government archives with links to the local provincial archives.

                          Jan


                          Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
                          On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 18:18, Debbie wrote:
                          > Philip,
                          > Civil, state, and national mean the same in the context of Poland's
                          > "Archiwum Pan~stwowe" Pan~stwowe means "of the people" sort of. Using
                          > the term civil though, merely points out that reference is not being
                          > made to the church records.

                          That's what I think too, with the exception that "civil" also covers
                          gmina archives like the one in Bukowsko. Which leaves me wondering what
                          the difference is between this site:
                          http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                          and this one:
                          http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html


                          P



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                        • Debbie
                          Jan, Is there an English page for http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html Thank you Debbie
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 24, 2003
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                            Jan,
                            Is there an English page for http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                            Thank you
                            Debbie

                            Jan Cesarczyk wrote:
                            > Hi,
                            > "Archivum Pan~stwowe" means "State Archive" which in practice means that it is run by some governmental organisation.
                            > http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html is the website of the archive of the city of Warsaw.
                            >
                            > http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html is the website of the main central government archives with links to the local provincial archives.
                            > Jan
                          • Jan Cesarczyk
                            Debbie, I can t find one. This archive contains documents from a rather strange area which is shown on the map at: http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/mapa.html Jan
                            Message 13 of 15 , Sep 24, 2003
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                              Debbie,
                              I can't find one. This archive contains documents from a rather strange area which is shown on the map at:

                              http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/mapa.html

                              Jan

                              Debbie <daveg@...> wrote:
                              Jan,
                              Is there an English page for http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html
                              Thank you
                              Debbie

                              Jan Cesarczyk wrote:
                              > Hi,
                              > "Archivum Pan~stwowe" means "State Archive" which in practice means that it is run by some governmental organisation.
                              > http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/intro.html is the website of the archive of the city of Warsaw.
                              >
                              > http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/index.eng.html is the website of the main central government archives with links to the local provincial archives.
                              > Jan


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                            • Debbie
                              Thanks, Jan. Debbie
                              Message 14 of 15 , Sep 24, 2003
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                                Thanks, Jan.
                                Debbie

                                Jan Cesarczyk wrote:
                                > Debbie,
                                > I can't find one. This archive contains documents from a rather strange area which is shown on the map at:
                                >
                                > http://warszawa.ap.gov.pl/mapa.html
                                > Jan
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