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writing to Przemysl - questions

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  • thephillyfly
    I m ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 22, 2013
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      I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...

      1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?

      2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.

      I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
      a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełchówka
      b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
      c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.

      3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?

      4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?

      5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?

      Thanks for any advice!
    • larrybell13071
      Philly Fly, I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 23, 2013
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        Philly Fly,

        I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).

        I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.

        The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.

        It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.

        http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184

        http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184

        Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
        Larry




        --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
        >
        > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
        >
        > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
        >
        > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
        > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
        > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
        > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
        >
        > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
        >
        > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
        >
        > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
        >
        > Thanks for any advice!
        >
      • Debbie Greenlee
        Rob, I agree with what Larry wrote, but I have an addition. If you decide to send an email, either make sure to use your Unicode (UTF-8) character encoding or
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 23, 2013
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          Rob,

          I agree with what Larry wrote, but I have an addition.

          If you decide to send an email, either make sure to use your Unicode
          (UTF-8) character encoding or don't type using Polish diacriticals at
          all. Otherwise It does not come across "the wires" correctly and will
          make it difficult to read.

          3. I think it is important to make sure the information in your
          request makes sense when someone else looks at it and that they don't
          have to sit and figure out what's what and who's who in your request.

          4. Keep in mind that if you ask them to search all of their records
          for your relatives it will be costly and I don't know that the archive
          will do this. You do need to set parameters.

          I think it is OK to ask for a lot of records but I think you just need
          to be specific about the types of records. As Larry suggested, using
          the archive's web site you can determine what sort of records are held
          at the Przemyśl Civil Archive.

          5) You can offer alternate surname spellings. The archivists will know
          about the given name alternates.

          Good luck
          Debbie

          thephillyfly wrote:
          > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
          >
          > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
          >
          > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
          >
          > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
          > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełchówka
          > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
          > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
          >
          > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
          >
          > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
          >
          > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
          >
          > Thanks for any advice!
          >
        • Justin
          ... It is easier to send an e-mail, and faster too. I don t think that e-mail requests are treated any differently. ... I have never written them in English
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 24, 2013
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            --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
            >
            > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?

            It is easier to send an e-mail, and faster too. I don't think that e-mail requests are treated any differently.

            >
            > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.

            I have never written them in English but if others get results that way, it speaks for itself.

            >
            > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
            > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełchówka


            Note that the Polish Archives will have these (including maps, sketches, and lists) from the mid-1800s forward. If you are interested in the 1787 and 1819 (Josephan and Franciscan) land cadasters, they are usually located at the Central State Historical Archives in L'viv.

            > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).

            If you ask for specific records of birth, marriage or death from certain villages they can probably copy the records for you. Beyond that is (I feel) asking too much from them and it would probably be better to hire a genealogist to go to the archives and do this for you.

            I like this guide:
            http://www.pgsa.org/EducationalCenter/polishletterwriting.php

            > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.

            As long as you give the card number it should be no problem. Be sure to state that you want it for genealogical purposes only, if that is the case.
            >
            > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
            >

            See my thoughts above.

            > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
            >

            They'd have to spend hours paging through the parish registers for any one name, let alone other types of documents such as population lists or land records that they may have. For this type of research you should hire a genealogist who can spend days in the archive looking for your family.

            > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
            >
            With first names they should probably already be aware of the Ukrainian, Polish, and Latin transliterations of certain names. With last names you may want to specify variants that are possibly not obvious.

            > Thanks for any advice!
            >

            Justin
          • thephillyfly
            Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
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              Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.

              With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.

              Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?

              As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).

              I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.

              Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!

              If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...

              Best,
              Rob





              --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@... wrote:
              >
              > Philly Fly,
              >
              > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).
              >
              > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.
              >
              > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.
              >
              > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
              >
              > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
              >
              > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
              >
              > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
              > Larry
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
              > >
              > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
              > >
              > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
              > >
              > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
              > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
              > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
              > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
              > >
              > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
              > >
              > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
              > >
              > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
              > >
              > > Thanks for any advice!
              > >
              >
            • larrybell13071
              Rob, Neither search engine will search for personal names. PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births,
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
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                Rob,

                Neither search engine will search for personal names.

                PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).

                Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.

                There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.

                If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.

                Larry




                Make note of the title and file number.

                --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                >
                > With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                >
                > Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                >
                > As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                >
                > I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                >
                > Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                >
                > If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                >
                > Best,
                > Rob
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Philly Fly,
                > >
                > > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).
                > >
                > > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.
                > >
                > > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.
                > >
                > > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
                > >
                > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
                > >
                > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
                > >
                > > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
                > > Larry
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
                > > >
                > > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
                > > >
                > > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
                > > >
                > > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
                > > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
                > > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
                > > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
                > > >
                > > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
                > > >
                > > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
                > > >
                > > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for any advice!
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • thephillyfly
                SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 25, 2013
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                  SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?

                  I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.

                  Thanks...

                  -Rob





                  --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Rob,
                  >
                  > Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                  >
                  > PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                  >
                  > Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                  >
                  > There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                  >
                  > If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Make note of the title and file number.
                  >
                  > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                  > >
                  > > With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                  > >
                  > > Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                  > >
                  > > As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                  > >
                  > > I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                  > >
                  > > Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                  > >
                  > > If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > > Rob
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Philly Fly,
                  > > >
                  > > > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).
                  > > >
                  > > > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.
                  > > >
                  > > > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.
                  > > >
                  > > > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
                  > > >
                  > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
                  > > >
                  > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
                  > > >
                  > > > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
                  > > > Larry
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
                  > > > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
                  > > > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
                  > > > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks for any advice!
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • larrybell13071
                  Rob, it doesn t cost anything to ask a question or two. They will do their initial assessment and write you with the results, including cost. At that point,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Rob, it doesn't cost anything to ask a question or two. They will do their initial assessment and write you with the results, including cost. At that point, you make the decision whether to go ahead or not.

                    Do you know what parish your people were from?

                    Larry

                    --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                    >
                    > I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                    >
                    > Thanks...
                    >
                    > -Rob
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Rob,
                    > >
                    > > Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                    > >
                    > > PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                    > >
                    > > Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                    > >
                    > > There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                    > >
                    > > If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                    > >
                    > > Larry
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Make note of the title and file number.
                    > >
                    > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                    > > >
                    > > > With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                    > > >
                    > > > Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                    > > >
                    > > > As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                    > > >
                    > > > I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                    > > >
                    > > > Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                    > > >
                    > > > If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                    > > >
                    > > > Best,
                    > > > Rob
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Philly Fly,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
                    > > > >
                    > > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
                    > > > > Larry
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
                    > > > > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
                    > > > > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
                    > > > > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Thanks for any advice!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Debbie Greenlee
                    Rob, Not everything the Polish archive holds is cataloged and not everything that is cataloged is indexed online. These are works in progress. If you hire a
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 26, 2013
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                      Rob,

                      Not everything the Polish archive holds is cataloged and not
                      everything that is cataloged is indexed online. These are works in
                      progress. If you hire a good Polish researcher (make sure to get
                      recommendations) let that person decide where to search. I don't think
                      it would take them very long to determine if and where Bełchówka
                      records are located.

                      Bełchówka shows up in many Nowotaniec records. Even though the records
                      are Roman Catholic there was a lot of intermarriage.

                      Since Bukowsko is the gmina for Bełchówka there might be court records
                      archived. I've not looked for these so I don't know whether this is so.

                      What you need to realize is that any Roman Catholic records for the
                      residents of Bełchówka can be found in the Bukowsko RC church records
                      and any Greek Catholic records for the residents of Bełchówka can be
                      found in the Wolica Greek Catholic church records.

                      I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                      found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                      one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                      included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                      write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                      are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                      not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                      write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                      remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                      the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records. I know it is
                      confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                      records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                      records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                      records given to the USC as civil records.

                      I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                      Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                      English but the response will probably be in Polish.

                      At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                      request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.

                      Debbie



                      thephillyfly wrote:
                      > SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                      >
                      > I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                      >
                      > Thanks...
                      >
                      > -Rob
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@... wrote:
                      >> Rob,
                      >>
                      >> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                      >>
                      >> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                      >>
                      >> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                      >>
                      >> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                      >>
                      >> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                      >>
                      >> Larry
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Make note of the title and file number.
                      >>
                      >> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                      >>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                      >>>
                      >>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                      >>>
                      >>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                      >>>
                      >>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                      >>>
                      >>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                      >>>
                      >>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                      >>>
                      >>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                      >>>
                      >>> Best,
                      >>> Rob
                    • Philip Semanchuk
                      ... Hi Rob, You ve gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot. To
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 27, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:

                        > I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                        > found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                        > one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                        > included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                        > write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                        > are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                        > not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                        > write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                        > remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                        > the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records.

                        Hi Rob,
                        You've gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot.

                        To what Debbie wrote above I'll add that my BT family is half GC the only records I've seen written in Cyrillic were from the 1920s.

                        Good luck
                        Philip






                        > I know it is
                        > confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                        > records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                        > records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                        > records given to the USC as civil records.
                        >
                        > I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                        > Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                        > English but the response will probably be in Polish.
                        >
                        > At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                        > request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.
                        >
                        > Debbie
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > thephillyfly wrote:
                        >> SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                        >>
                        >> I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                        >>
                        >> Thanks...
                        >>
                        >> -Rob
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@... wrote:
                        >>> Rob,
                        >>>
                        >>> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                        >>>
                        >>> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                        >>>
                        >>> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                        >>>
                        >>> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                        >>>
                        >>> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                        >>>
                        >>> Larry
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> Make note of the title and file number.
                        >>>
                        >>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                        >>>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                        >>>>
                        >>>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                        >>>>
                        >>>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Best,
                        >>>> Rob
                      • Justin
                        Rob, You are interested in Belchowka records - I pulled out the information I have which may be of some use. And maybe some of what you find will help me as
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 28, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Rob,

                          You are interested in Belchowka records - I pulled out the information I have which may be of some use. And maybe some of what you find will help me as well.

                          Originally Belchowka was a filial parish of the church in Morochow. I don't know how long this arrangement lasted, but my guess is that it may have extended into the 1830s (or perhaps later) as Ratnawica was in a similar situation.

                          The parish registers of Morochow, beginning in 1784, are still at the church in Morochow. Duplicate copies for some years between 1791 and 1845 are located in the Archives in Przemysl. These may, or may not, be helpful, as a filial parish was a separately constituted parish and should have had its own registers. Perhaps there was a separate section of the Morochow book for Belchowka, but I am not aware of this.

                          Then Belchowska became a filial parish of Wolica. PRADZIAD shows that the Polish State Archives has Wolica records for a few years in the late 1830s and early 1840s. Don't know if Belchowka is mixed in with these or not. It should have been separated out as a filial parish, but one never knows.

                          Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a combined Wolica book and published them on his site.

                          Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region. You'll have to do a lot of digging but you might be able to find them. Good luck.

                          I am looking for the missing Ratnawica records as well, so if you come across anything in your searches I'd be interested to hear about it!

                          Justin


                          --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
                          >
                          > > I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                          > > found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                          > > one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                          > > included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                          > > write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                          > > are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                          > > not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                          > > write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                          > > remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                          > > the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records.
                          >
                          > Hi Rob,
                          > You've gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot.
                          >
                          > To what Debbie wrote above I'll add that my BT family is half GC the only records I've seen written in Cyrillic were from the 1920s.
                          >
                          > Good luck
                          > Philip
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > I know it is
                          > > confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                          > > records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                          > > records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                          > > records given to the USC as civil records.
                          > >
                          > > I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                          > > Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                          > > English but the response will probably be in Polish.
                          > >
                          > > At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                          > > request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.
                          > >
                          > > Debbie
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > thephillyfly wrote:
                          > >> SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                          > >>
                          > >> I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                          > >>
                          > >> Thanks...
                          > >>
                          > >> -Rob
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                          > >>> Rob,
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Larry
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Make note of the title and file number.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                          > >>>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> Best,
                          > >>>> Rob
                          >
                        • Justin
                          As to Cyrillic - the early GC records I ve used (18th and 19th century) have all been in Latin. The spis (parish census) book of Morochow parish, however, is
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 28, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            As to Cyrillic - the early GC records I've used (18th and 19th century) have all been in Latin. The spis (parish census) book of Morochow parish, however, is in Cyrillic on preprinted Cyrillic forms. It dates ca. 1870s-ca. 1940s and records families by house number. It is written in what might be called "Ruthenian" - not Church Slavonic, not modern Ukrainian, and not Russian, but an older version of the Ukrainian language which includes Russian orthography.

                            Justin

                            --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
                            >
                            > > I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                            > > found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                            > > one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                            > > included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                            > > write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                            > > are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                            > > not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                            > > write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                            > > remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                            > > the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records.
                            >
                            > Hi Rob,
                            > You've gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot.
                            >
                            > To what Debbie wrote above I'll add that my BT family is half GC the only records I've seen written in Cyrillic were from the 1920s.
                            >
                            > Good luck
                            > Philip
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > I know it is
                            > > confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                            > > records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                            > > records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                            > > records given to the USC as civil records.
                            > >
                            > > I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                            > > Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                            > > English but the response will probably be in Polish.
                            > >
                            > > At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                            > > request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.
                            > >
                            > > Debbie
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > thephillyfly wrote:
                            > >> SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                            > >>
                            > >> I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                            > >>
                            > >> Thanks...
                            > >>
                            > >> -Rob
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                            > >>> Rob,
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Larry
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Make note of the title and file number.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                            > >>>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Best,
                            > >>>> Rob
                            >
                          • Debbie Greenlee
                            Justin et al, RE: Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a combined Wolica book and published them on his site. Later Belchowka records
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 28, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Justin et al,

                              RE: "Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a
                              combined Wolica book and published them on his site.

                              Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could
                              be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region."

                              The Bełchówka records mentioned above 1867-1884 are in Tom. 15 at the
                              USC in Bukowsko. Post 1884 records continue in the same book however
                              there is a large gap between 1884 and 1914 (common in the area's
                              books/records).

                              Rob, Your Assignment: Combine all of the known (facts) information
                              about Bełchówka records (with a separate list as to possible locations
                              of records) and post them to the list so we can eventually refer to it
                              without having to read so many posts. :)

                              Debbie

                              Justin wrote:
                              > Rob,
                              >
                              > You are interested in Belchowka records - I pulled out the information I have which may be of some use. And maybe some of what you find will help me as well.
                              >
                              > Originally Belchowka was a filial parish of the church in Morochow. I don't know how long this arrangement lasted, but my guess is that it may have extended into the 1830s (or perhaps later) as Ratnawica was in a similar situation.
                              >
                              > The parish registers of Morochow, beginning in 1784, are still at the church in Morochow. Duplicate copies for some years between 1791 and 1845 are located in the Archives in Przemysl. These may, or may not, be helpful, as a filial parish was a separately constituted parish and should have had its own registers. Perhaps there was a separate section of the Morochow book for Belchowka, but I am not aware of this.
                              >
                              > Then Belchowska became a filial parish of Wolica. PRADZIAD shows that the Polish State Archives has Wolica records for a few years in the late 1830s and early 1840s. Don't know if Belchowka is mixed in with these or not. It should have been separated out as a filial parish, but one never knows.
                              >
                              > Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a combined Wolica book and published them on his site.
                              >
                              > Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region. You'll have to do a lot of digging but you might be able to find them. Good luck.
                              >
                              > I am looking for the missing Ratnawica records as well, so if you come across anything in your searches I'd be interested to hear about it!
                              >
                              > Justin
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                              >>> found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                              >>> one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                              >>> included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                              >>> write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                              >>> are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                              >>> not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                              >>> write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                              >>> remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                              >>> the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records.
                              >> Hi Rob,
                              >> You've gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot.
                              >>
                              >> To what Debbie wrote above I'll add that my BT family is half GC the only records I've seen written in Cyrillic were from the 1920s.
                              >>
                              >> Good luck
                              >> Philip
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>> I know it is
                              >>> confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                              >>> records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                              >>> records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                              >>> records given to the USC as civil records.
                              >>>
                              >>> I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                              >>> Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                              >>> English but the response will probably be in Polish.
                              >>>
                              >>> At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                              >>> request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.
                              >>>
                              >>> Debbie
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> thephillyfly wrote:
                              >>>> SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                              >>>>
                              >>>> I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Thanks...
                              >>>>
                              >>>> -Rob
                              >>>>
                              >>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                              >>>>> Rob,
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Larry
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Make note of the title and file number.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                              >>>>>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Best,
                              >>>>>> Rob
                            • thephillyfly
                              Debbie: I may or may not have started on this assignment already. :) But yes, I am definitely electing myself to be the unofficial official Belchowka
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 28, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Debbie:

                                I may or may not have started on this assignment already. :)

                                But yes, I am definitely electing myself to be the unofficial official Belchowka information compiler! I will post again when I have something comprehensive to share.

                                Thanks to all, again, for your knowledge and helpful pointers.

                                -Rob


                                --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Justin et al,
                                >
                                > RE: "Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a
                                > combined Wolica book and published them on his site.
                                >
                                > Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could
                                > be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region."
                                >
                                > The Bełchówka records mentioned above 1867-1884 are in Tom. 15 at the
                                > USC in Bukowsko. Post 1884 records continue in the same book however
                                > there is a large gap between 1884 and 1914 (common in the area's
                                > books/records).
                                >
                                > Rob, Your Assignment: Combine all of the known (facts) information
                                > about Bełchówka records (with a separate list as to possible locations
                                > of records) and post them to the list so we can eventually refer to it
                                > without having to read so many posts. :)
                                >
                                > Debbie
                                >
                                > Justin wrote:
                                > > Rob,
                                > >
                                > > You are interested in Belchowka records - I pulled out the information I have which may be of some use. And maybe some of what you find will help me as well.
                                > >
                                > > Originally Belchowka was a filial parish of the church in Morochow. I don't know how long this arrangement lasted, but my guess is that it may have extended into the 1830s (or perhaps later) as Ratnawica was in a similar situation.
                                > >
                                > > The parish registers of Morochow, beginning in 1784, are still at the church in Morochow. Duplicate copies for some years between 1791 and 1845 are located in the Archives in Przemysl. These may, or may not, be helpful, as a filial parish was a separately constituted parish and should have had its own registers. Perhaps there was a separate section of the Morochow book for Belchowka, but I am not aware of this.
                                > >
                                > > Then Belchowska became a filial parish of Wolica. PRADZIAD shows that the Polish State Archives has Wolica records for a few years in the late 1830s and early 1840s. Don't know if Belchowka is mixed in with these or not. It should have been separated out as a filial parish, but one never knows.
                                > >
                                > > Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a combined Wolica book and published them on his site.
                                > >
                                > > Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region. You'll have to do a lot of digging but you might be able to find them. Good luck.
                                > >
                                > > I am looking for the missing Ratnawica records as well, so if you come across anything in your searches I'd be interested to hear about it!
                                > >
                                > > Justin
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@> wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>> I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                                > >>> found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                                > >>> one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                                > >>> included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                                > >>> write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                                > >>> are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                                > >>> not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                                > >>> write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                                > >>> remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                                > >>> the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records.
                                > >> Hi Rob,
                                > >> You've gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot.
                                > >>
                                > >> To what Debbie wrote above I'll add that my BT family is half GC the only records I've seen written in Cyrillic were from the 1920s.
                                > >>
                                > >> Good luck
                                > >> Philip
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>> I know it is
                                > >>> confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                                > >>> records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                                > >>> records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                                > >>> records given to the USC as civil records.
                                > >>>
                                > >>> I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                                > >>> Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                                > >>> English but the response will probably be in Polish.
                                > >>>
                                > >>> At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                                > >>> request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.
                                > >>>
                                > >>> Debbie
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> thephillyfly wrote:
                                > >>>> SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> Thanks...
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> -Rob
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                                > >>>>> Rob,
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Larry
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Make note of the title and file number.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                                > >>>>>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Best,
                                > >>>>>> Rob
                                >
                              • Philip Semanchuk
                                ... Good. Belchowka needs a point person. Good luck Philip
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 28, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On Feb 28, 2013, at 10:47 AM, thephillyfly wrote:

                                  > Debbie:
                                  >
                                  > I may or may not have started on this assignment already. :)
                                  >
                                  > But yes, I am definitely electing myself to be the unofficial official Belchowka information compiler! I will post again when I have something comprehensive to share.

                                  Good. Belchowka needs a point person.

                                  Good luck
                                  Philip

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> Justin et al,
                                  >>
                                  >> RE: "Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a
                                  >> combined Wolica book and published them on his site.
                                  >>
                                  >> Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could
                                  >> be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region."
                                  >>
                                  >> The Bełchówka records mentioned above 1867-1884 are in Tom. 15 at the
                                  >> USC in Bukowsko. Post 1884 records continue in the same book however
                                  >> there is a large gap between 1884 and 1914 (common in the area's
                                  >> books/records).
                                  >>
                                  >> Rob, Your Assignment: Combine all of the known (facts) information
                                  >> about Bełchówka records (with a separate list as to possible locations
                                  >> of records) and post them to the list so we can eventually refer to it
                                  >> without having to read so many posts. :)
                                  >>
                                  >> Debbie
                                  >>
                                  >> Justin wrote:
                                  >>> Rob,
                                  >>>
                                  >>> You are interested in Belchowka records - I pulled out the information I have which may be of some use. And maybe some of what you find will help me as well.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Originally Belchowka was a filial parish of the church in Morochow. I don't know how long this arrangement lasted, but my guess is that it may have extended into the 1830s (or perhaps later) as Ratnawica was in a similar situation.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> The parish registers of Morochow, beginning in 1784, are still at the church in Morochow. Duplicate copies for some years between 1791 and 1845 are located in the Archives in Przemysl. These may, or may not, be helpful, as a filial parish was a separately constituted parish and should have had its own registers. Perhaps there was a separate section of the Morochow book for Belchowka, but I am not aware of this.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Then Belchowska became a filial parish of Wolica. PRADZIAD shows that the Polish State Archives has Wolica records for a few years in the late 1830s and early 1840s. Don't know if Belchowka is mixed in with these or not. It should have been separated out as a filial parish, but one never knows.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Philip has extracted records of Belchowka 1867-1884 from a combined Wolica book and published them on his site.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Later Belchowka records (post-1884) may be in a USC somewhere or could be in possession of a local church congregation somewhere in the region. You'll have to do a lot of digging but you might be able to find them. Good luck.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I am looking for the missing Ratnawica records as well, so if you come across anything in your searches I'd be interested to hear about it!
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Justin
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@> wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> I can not determine in which civil book the Bełchówka records can be
                                  >>>>> found. I find it hard to believe that the book with records from that
                                  >>>>> one village has completely disappeared. I am guessing that it is
                                  >>>>> included in one of the Bukowsko USC books. I think perhaps you should
                                  >>>>> write a letter to the USC in Bukowsko and ask if the Bełchówka records
                                  >>>>> are in the books they hold and make sure to ask that if the USC does
                                  >>>>> not have the records, where are the civil records. You will have to
                                  >>>>> write in Polish. The new USC manager does not read Cyrillic but if I
                                  >>>>> remember correctly names in the Greek Catholic records were written in
                                  >>>>> the Latin alphabet in the USC Greek Catholic records.
                                  >>>> Hi Rob,
                                  >>>> You've gotten tons of excellent advice on a mysterious subject. I encourage you to forge ahead; this is an area where we can all learn a lot.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> To what Debbie wrote above I'll add that my BT family is half GC the only records I've seen written in Cyrillic were from the 1920s.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Good luck
                                  >>>> Philip
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> I know it is
                                  >>>>> confusing to say that the USC has Greek Catholic records but if the
                                  >>>>> records held at the USC are not the _original_ Greek Catholic church
                                  >>>>> records, then they are copies _from_ the original Greek Catholic
                                  >>>>> records given to the USC as civil records.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> I would also write to the branch of the Rzeszów Civil Archives in
                                  >>>>> Sanok asking the same questions as above. This letter can be in
                                  >>>>> English but the response will probably be in Polish.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> At the same time you can write to the Przemyśl civil Archives and
                                  >>>>> request the cadastral map and indexes for Bełchówka.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> Debbie
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> thephillyfly wrote:
                                  >>>>>> SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Thanks...
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> -Rob
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                                  >>>>>>> Rob,
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> Larry
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> Make note of the title and file number.
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" <u2rob@> wrote:
                                  >>>>>>>> Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> Best,
                                  >>>>>>>> Rob
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Robert Piech
                                  Larry,   I m sorry, Larry, mail a lot of trouble with yahoo. I know a little more about the family. Soltys (I was a tiny child - I used to play blocks with
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Aug 30, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Larry,
                                     
                                    I'm sorry, Larry, mail a lot of trouble with yahoo. I know a little more about the family. Soltys (I was a tiny child - I used to play blocks with him, I know their daughter - was a friend of piechów (information from my mom), one of them living in the village "Wronka Small" her name is Orzechowska. Dad has in his ID names of grandparents and agree with your data. Mama also spoke about Lenio (live Masuria) - and it's far away from family stories!
                                    I read on my backlog


                                    ________________________________
                                    From: "larrybell.cny@..." <larrybell.cny@...>
                                    To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:25 PM
                                    Subject: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: writing to Przemysl - questions


                                     

                                    Rob, it doesn't cost anything to ask a question or two. They will do their initial assessment and write you with the results, including cost. At that point, you make the decision whether to go ahead or not.

                                    Do you know what parish your people were from?

                                    Larry

                                    --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                                    >
                                    > I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks...
                                    >
                                    > -Rob
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Rob,
                                    > >
                                    > > Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                                    > >
                                    > > PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                                    > >
                                    > > Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                                    > >
                                    > > There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                                    > >
                                    > > If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                                    > >
                                    > > Larry
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Make note of the title and file number.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Best,
                                    > > > Rob
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Philly Fly,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
                                    > > > > Larry
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
                                    > > > > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
                                    > > > > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
                                    > > > > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Thanks for any advice!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • lucekcichocki
                                    Larry, if you have any trouble, mail me. I live in Przemyśl so if you think I could be of any help, shoot :)   --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com,
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Aug 30, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Larry, if you have any trouble, mail me. I live in Przemyśl so if you think I could be of any help, shoot :)   --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, <kalomel1@...> wrote: Larry,
                                       
                                      I'm sorry, Larry, mail a lot of trouble with yahoo. I know a little more about the family. Soltys (I was a tiny child - I used to play blocks with him, I know their daughter - was a friend of piechów (information from my mom), one of them living in the village "Wronka Small" her name is Orzechowska. Dad has in his ID names of grandparents and agree with your data. Mama also spoke about Lenio (live Masuria) - and it's far away from family stories!
                                      I read on my backlog


                                      ________________________________
                                      From: " larrybell.cny@... " < larrybell.cny@... >
                                      To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:25 PM
                                      Subject: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: writing to Przemysl - questions


                                       

                                      Rob, it doesn't cost anything to ask a question or two. They will do their initial assessment and write you with the results, including cost. At that point, you make the decision whether to go ahead or not.

                                      Do you know what parish your people were from?

                                      Larry

                                      --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                      >
                                      > SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village. Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                                      >
                                      > I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I would be asking for an impossible task.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks...
                                      >
                                      > -Rob
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Rob,
                                      > >
                                      > > Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                                      > >
                                      > > PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa, 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                                      > >
                                      > > Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the search categories.
                                      > >
                                      > > There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                                      > >
                                      > > If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may find something for you.
                                      > >
                                      > > Larry
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Make note of the title and file number.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried again to see what I could find.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names, places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump out to me as being particularly relevant.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here: http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica since they shared a priest for a time).
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some point and do some extensive searching myself.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947 identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Best,
                                      > > > Rob
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@ wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Philly Fly,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple. They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use short sentences and be concise).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is faster than surface mail.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better. They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40 złoty per hour.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
                                      > > > > Larry
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a few questions answered here before sending something off...
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests? Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response I get will likely be in Polish.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
                                      > > > > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
                                      > > > > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same surname (or similar).
                                      > > > > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja Wisła.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving them as much information as I can at the very outset?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a feasible approach?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan, Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look for things like this already?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Thanks for any advice!
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Walt/Gloria Elston
                                      Can this be done by email? Gloria ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Aug 30, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Can this be done by email?

                                        Gloria


                                        On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:37 PM, <lucekcichocki@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Larry, if you have any trouble, mail me. I live in Przemyśl so if you
                                        > think I could be of any help, shoot :) --- In
                                        > bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, <kalomel1@...> wrote: Larry,
                                        >
                                        > I'm sorry, Larry, mail a lot of trouble with yahoo. I know a little more
                                        > about the family. Soltys (I was a tiny child - I used to play blocks with
                                        > him, I know their daughter - was a friend of piechów (information from my
                                        > mom), one of them living in the village "Wronka Small" her name is
                                        > Orzechowska. Dad has in his ID names of grandparents and agree with your
                                        > data. Mama also spoke about Lenio (live Masuria) - and it's far away from
                                        > family stories!
                                        > I read on my backlog
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: " larrybell.cny@... " < larrybell.cny@... >
                                        > To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:25 PM
                                        > Subject: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: writing to Przemysl - questions
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Rob, it doesn't cost anything to ask a question or two. They will do their
                                        > initial assessment and write you with the results, including cost. At that
                                        > point, you make the decision whether to go ahead or not.
                                        >
                                        > Do you know what parish your people were from?
                                        >
                                        > Larry
                                        >
                                        > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly" wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > SEZAM/IZA is definitely allowing me to search by name. Try Celep, or
                                        > Makara, or Klepczyk, or Zadylak, as a few examples related to my village.
                                        > Perhaps this is a new/limited feature?
                                        > >
                                        > > I get that PRADZIAD is the database for various towns -- I suppose I'm
                                        > asking whether I should, because there are no entries for Belchowka
                                        > whatsoever, turn to records for Bukowsko, or Wolica, or whether I'd just be
                                        > sending researchers in the wrong direction by doing so. Facing the fact
                                        > that the records for Belchowka are seemingly limited (or non-existent), I
                                        > hesitate to get heavily financially invested if (like has been mentioned) I
                                        > would be asking for an impossible task.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks...
                                        > >
                                        > > -Rob
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Rob,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Neither search engine will search for personal names.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > PRAZIAD will help you locate particular files of vital records for
                                        > various town. (e.g. births, deaths and marriages for Wola Sękowa,
                                        > 1890-1899, found in the Sanok archive).
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Reading the information page for each search engine will help. It's in
                                        > English. Then use Google to translate the various terms that come up in the
                                        > search categories.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > There is a learning curve and it can take a while to get results.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > If you are unsuccessful, try writing to the archive anyway. They may
                                        > find something for you.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Larry
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Make note of the title and file number.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly"
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks, Larry, for reminding me about the archive database search
                                        > tools. I had tried them before without having much luck, but I just tried
                                        > again to see what I could find.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > With regard to the SEZAM/IZA search, if I search "personal names,
                                        > places, subjects" for Belchowka, I indeed pull up 5 probate records, but
                                        > unfortunately none of them are for family members, and nothing else related
                                        > comes up. I also get nothing when I try conceivable permutations of my
                                        > surname in question. Searching for Bukowsko brings up 76 records, but also
                                        > nothing related to my family as far as I can tell. Many of the search
                                        > results for Wolica (Belchowka shared a priest/parish with Wolica) are
                                        > either post-1947, not related to "our" Wolica, or just don't really jump
                                        > out to me as being particularly relevant.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Is there an alternative method of searching SEZAM/IZA that I am
                                        > overlooking? Something else I should be looking for?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > As for the PRADZIAD database, I understand that it does not let you
                                        > search for specific names or people. Searching for Belchowka brings up
                                        > nothing (as Philip indicates on his page here:
                                        > http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/data/PolishNationalArchives.html ), and
                                        > searching for Bukowsko in the second search field brings up 72 results for
                                        > 20 different towns. I suppose that if Belchowka were lumped in with any of
                                        > those 20 town registers, it would be Bukowsko itself (or perhaps Wolica
                                        > since they shared a priest for a time).
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I am happy to give researchers a heads-up on which fonds to be
                                        > searching, but I also don't want to send them down the wrong path! Of
                                        > course I understand that they may just tell me that they couldn't find
                                        > anything. Nothing I can really do in that case, other than go there at some
                                        > point and do some extensive searching myself.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Here's hoping that the records exist somewhere!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > If nothing else, I suppose they'll be able to send me the 1947
                                        > identity card copy and some old cadastral maps and indices...
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Best,
                                        > > > > Rob
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, larrybell.cny@wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Philly Fly,
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I always write to the Przemyśl archive in English. I do not trust
                                        > Google translate to convey my thoughts accurately. I try to keep it simple.
                                        > They will respond in Polish. I have been pleased with the results (use
                                        > short sentences and be concise).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I have have good results writing to them via email. It may take
                                        > 4-6 weeks to receive a response. Or it may come sooner. I think it is
                                        > faster than surface mail.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > The more you know about the subject of your search, the better.
                                        > They can do a big, global search for your relative, but it will cost you 40
                                        > złoty per hour.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > It will help if you can do some of the work yourself. Try to
                                        > locate the file you are looking for using SEZAM or PRAZIAD.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=388&catid=107&Itemid=184
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > http://archiwa.gov.pl/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=387&catid=107&Itemid=184
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Good luck and let us know how it all works out.
                                        > > > > > Larry
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In mailto:bukowsko_triangle%40yahoogroups.com, "thephillyfly"
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > I'm ready to write the archives in Przemyśl for the first time
                                        > to request some research and copies of documents, and I was hoping to get a
                                        > few questions answered here before sending something off...
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > 1) Are emailed requests treated the same as hard copy requests?
                                        > Would I do well to mail a letter instead?
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > 2) Do I understand correctly that writing them solely in English
                                        > is okay? I know Justin Houser had recent success after writing them in
                                        > Polish (with the help of Google Translate). I understand that any response
                                        > I get will likely be in Polish.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > I have three separate things that I'm interested in:
                                        > > > > > > a) Copies of cadastral maps and their indices for Bełch�wka
                                        > > > > > > b) Any information about three known direct paternal Waniejczyk
                                        > ancestors, plus anything else that they might run across with the same
                                        > surname (or similar).
                                        > > > > > > c) A copy of an identity card for family relocated during Akcja
                                        > Wisła.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > 3) Would it be asking too much to put all of this in the same
                                        > letter/email? Or is it better to make all of my requests at once, giving
                                        > them as much information as I can at the very outset?
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > 4) I suspect that it would be helpful to include names and dates
                                        > that I have for the three family members I know about, but can I also ask
                                        > them to look for *anything* with the same surname, or is that just not a
                                        > feasible approach?
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > 5) Should I offer alternate spellings of names (e.g. Jan/Iwan,
                                        > Jedrzej/Andrzej, Waniejczyk/Weninczyk/Wenejczyk) or will they know to look
                                        > for things like this already?
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Thanks for any advice!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >


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