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  • rosibal
    Hi I was invited by Philip to join this site; My father was born in Plonne in 1922 to a Jewish family; my grandfather, Dawid Balbirer was a tinsmith who fixed
    Message 1 of 50 , Oct 20, 2012
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      Hi

      I was invited by Philip to join this site;

      My father was born in Plonne in 1922 to a Jewish family; my grandfather, Dawid Balbirer was a tinsmith who fixed houses' tin roofs.
      My grandmother Roza, had a small gathering place were the peasants would gather for some refreshments (i dont think she sold alcohol there but maybe tobacco)and she also had cows for their milk.

      My father's family was one of just a few families living in Plonne.
      His parents were originally from Lesko and I think around 1929 or so, they moved to Bukowsko. I think my grandfather was not only a tinsmith but also a window glazer.

      I was looking for any information on how to obtain a birth certificate for my dad. Being Jewish, I am not sure if he would have been registered in the synagogue (I dont think Plonne had one) or at government level.

      The same for my grandparents whom I mentioned were born in Lesko. I know there was and still is a synagogue but the records there do not exist any longer. Would they have been registered at governmet level too? I only want their date of birth. My father only has their years of birth.

      Thank you for all the help in the subject.
    • Shosh E.
      Hi Debbie Only my father and siblings were born in Plonna; his mother and father were apparently born in Lesko as they lived there. I have a client s spouse
      Message 50 of 50 , Jan 31, 2013
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        Hi Debbie

        Only my father and siblings were born in Plonna; his mother and father were apparently born in Lesko as they lived there.

        I have a client's spouse that reads Polish-will ask her

        Thank you Debbie

        To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
        From: daveg@...
        Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 18:56:25 -0600
        Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Jewish records


























        Shosh,



        Sorry to read that the records you need apparently do not exist,

        though I am not sure this is what is meant by the letter.



        I think you might want to have a Polish speaker/reader translate this

        letter so you are sure not to miss something.



        I am wondering what is meant by, "In addition, to inform you that the

        Office of Civil Status in Lesko's books Israelite religion - births

        from 1927 to 1940, marriages from 1910 to 1937, and deaths from the

        years 1907-1921, 1939, where you can ask the question in this case."



        I am guessing they performed a search for free but if you want "them"

        to search for someone else there will be a charge.



        In any of your correspondence with these archives did you mention that

        your ancestors were from Płonna in gmina Bukowsko?



        Debbie



        Shosh E. wrote:

        > Hello Debbie

        >

        > Sorry I havent been very active in your forum lately;

        >

        > I wanted to share with you the reponse I got from the Polish archives

        regarding my request for my grandparents' birth information (Google

        translation):===========

        > =============================================================

        >

        > Case: find relatives

        >

        > In response to a letter to inform you that the Department of Sanok

        resource book store Israelite religion from the public registry Lesko -

        Birth of the years 1877-1884, deaths from the years 1877-1884, 1888-1900.

        Hence it is not possible to find in our birth resource Rosa Kessler, who

        was born in 1894, or the birth of David Balbirer, who was born in 1891.



        In the books of births to Sanok Jews not wanted by Ms. acts births.

        In addition, to inform you that the Office of Civil Status in Lesko's

        books Israelite religion - births from 1927 to 1940, marriages from 1910

        to 1937, and deaths from the years 1907-1921, 1939, where you can ask the

        question in this case.



        Other books metrical Israelite religion, in my opinion, were lost during

        the Second World War. During the war, was also destroyed all records of

        the population of the city Lesko. Thus, it seems to me that finding a

        birth certificate from 1922, 1891 and 1894 is not possible.



        At the same time inform you that you can lead search for yourself

        in our archive. The scientific workshop provides materials from Monday to

        Friday from 8 to 14 Sharing is free.



        However, if you want to Department staff conducted a search for you on

        the other lady relatives or persons named Kessler and Balbier in the

        books of births in the years 1877-1884, deaths from the years 1877-1884,

        1888-1900, a report that is associated the costs of which shall be borne

        by the customer by way of archival research.



        In accordance with Section 7 of Ordinance No. 13/2010 Director of the

        National Archives in Rzeszów of 30 December 2010 on the list of services

        provided by the archives State Archives in Rzeszów initial charge is

        before you look at 60 zł.



        According to paragraph 14 in / in order, it is counted against the charges

        for the service. In case of a negative result of archival research or

        cancel the service after the start of the entry fee is the equivalent for

        the work and is not refundable. You also bear all costs associated with

        copying and delivery of documents. Current pricelist is available on the

        website of the National Archives in Rzeszѓw (www.rzeszow.ap.gov.pl)



        Therefore, I give the account number of the National Archives

        in Rzeszów, which can you possibly make a down payment of 60 zł: Polish

        National Bank Regional Office in Rzeszow PL51101015280025252231000000

        account number, BIC CODE NBPLPLPW stating "OS-843-68/12 query".

        The search will be initiated upon receipt of confirmation of the fee and

        the administration of the exact address for correspondence.

        ========================================================================



        I think they are right about Lesko not having any records. I also wrote

        to Sanok before writing to Rzezow and they also dont have any records.



        > Shosh



        > To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com

        > From: daveg@...

        > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 12:58:49 -0500

        > Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Jewish records CORRECTION



        > Shosh,

        >

        > Here is a correction:

        > According to Miriam Weiner's book, _Jewish Roots in Poland, Pages From

        > The Past and Archival Inventories_ Census records PГonna, 1937-1939

        > (Zespol/Sygnatura 23/32) can be found at the Sanok branch of the

        > Rzeszѓw Civil Archives (in Sanok).

        > Note that there are no military recruitment lists and I don't know if

        > the "census" records contain Jewish residents.

        >

        > Sorry for the confusion.

        >

        > Debbie

        >

        > Debbie Greenlee wrote:

        >> Shosh,

        >>

        >> I think your grandfather's name, Dawid Balbirer is listed as David

        >> Babierer on a list of Jewish names submitted to Debbie Raff by Marek

        >> Silarski. I don't think Marek ever explained exactly what these

        >> documents are however. http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/bukowsko/

        >> Scroll down to, "Nazwiska Z~ydowskie z akt sadowych Bukowska (z lat

        >> 1926-1946)"/ "Jewish Names from Documents of Bukowsko County 1926-1946"

        >>

        >> I also spotted your grandfather's name in the

        >> "Lista Platnikow Skladki - 1935". It's a pdf file.

        >>

        >> I didn't see a name which looked like your grandfather's in the list

        >> of "Jewish Residents of Bukowsko" (again on Debbie Raff's site) but I

        >> never thought that this was a complete list of Jewish residents since

        >> the book in which the information appears is actually a Roman Catholic

        >> book. I never had a good sense of why the priest at the time, listed

        >> Jewish residents, however, Rabbi Berger recently wrote, "It is very

        >> possible that the information on the Jewish residents was written by

        >> the priest in order to visit those people before the Jewish holidays,

        >> and to pay his respects. (It could be that behind those visits were

        >> also hidden meanings as conversion etc. but the fact of the matter is

        >> that the Jews were in good contact with the Christians and the Priest.)"

        >>

        >> I do not know where Anna Przybyszewska Drozd & Yale J. Reisner from

        >> the The Jewish Historical Institute found their information about

        >> PГonna records being in Lesko. PГonna was included in the Bukowsko

        >> gmina. PГonna did not have its own civil record office, however, I do

        >> not think you will find any Jewish birth records for gmina Bukowsko

        >> anywhere.

        >>

        >> According to Miriam Weiner's book, _Jewish Roots in Poland, Pages From

        >> The Past and Archival Inventories_, Jewish Army/Recruitment lists and

        >> Jewish Census records PГonna, 1937-1939 (Zespol/Sygnatura 23/32) can

        >> be found at the Sanok branch of the Rzeszѓw Civil Archives. As I

        >> wrote, no one, to my knowledge has looked at these records so I don't

        >> know what's really in them.

        >>

        >> The Polish Civil Archives has not inventoried all of their holdings

        >> yet. It is a work in progress so it wouldn't hurt to check their web

        >> site occasionally: http://www.archiwa.gov.pl/?CIDA=378

        >>

        >> The PrzemyЖГ branch of the Polish Civil Archives (in PrzemyЖl) also

        >> has cadastral records which list some Jewish property owners. These

        >> records are pre-1900. You would need not only the map sections but the

        >> _list_ of homeowners' names which has an assigned property number.

        >> This property number is not the same as the actual address number.

        >> There isn't much useful information except you should be able to

        >> pinpoint your families' property.

        >>

        >> When Bukowsko was burned down in 1946 some record books were lost. I

        >> can't say for sure that the Jewish records were burned but if they

        >> weren't, they haven't surfaced. Of course, the Nazis could have burned

        >> the Jewish records when they removed most of the Jews from Bukowsko

        >> and took them to ZasГaw to a Nazi work camp and then to BeГzec to the

        >> Nazi death camp.

        >>

        >> A long shot: there _might_ be some old (pre-WWI) Jewish records in the

        >> civil archive in Lwѓw/Lviv.

        >>

        >> If any Jewish records are written in Hebrew, archivists may not be

        >> able to search them. I would think someone who can read Hebrew would

        >> need to search the records.

        >>

        >> Debbie

        \\
















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