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Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855

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  • John Zlotek
    Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855   Jan-May was OK 18 normal jun-jul ZERO aug 3 sept 1 Oct 1 Nov 2 Dec 2   There was a normal amount of births
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 22, 2011
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      Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855
       
      Jan-May was OK 18 normal
      jun-jul ZERO
      aug 3
      sept 1
      Oct 1
      Nov 2
      Dec 2
       
      There was a normal amount of births through May then something "happened"????
       
      In 1856 Jan-March there were 15-Back to normal
       
      john 


      ________________________________
      From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
      To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855


       
      Good point Sandy.

      Debbie

      Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
      > The PGSA Website references this famine ............ you starve in 1853/4 and not too many babies in 1855. Probably a lot of early miscarriages or deaths with mom... notice the up-tick in deaths that year too.
      >
      >
      >
      > On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
      >
      >> John Zlotek (a volunteer translator) pointed out to me that in the
      >> year 1855 there were only 28 births in the Bukowsko _parish_.
      >>
      >> I checked the church marriage, baptismal and death records and found
      >> the following:
      >>
      >> 1853 14 marriages 52 births deaths 42
      >> 1854 18 marriages 54 births deaths 49
      >> 1855 17 marriages 28 births deaths 61
      >> 1856 19 marriages 50 births deaths 41
      >>
      >> Apparently there was a cholera epidemic in Bukowsko in 1855 as many of
      >> the death records list this as a cause of death. I suppose cholera was
      >> a reason not to bring more children into the world at that time.
      >>
      >> Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there was a low birth rate
      >> in 1855?
      >
      > Take your pick...
      >
      > The cholera epidemic wasn't confined to 1855:
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_cholera_pandemic
      >
      > Around that time was also the Great Irish Potato Famine, and I always thought that that was confined to the British Isles, but this page suggests there was also famine in Galicia:
      > http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/myadel/pandemics.htm
      >
      > I can't find any other references to famine in Galicia around that time, though, so take it with a grain of salt.
      >
      > bye
      > P
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Walt/Gloria Elston
      Think nine months prior---- Gloria ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 22, 2011
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        Think nine months prior----

        Gloria

        On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:18 AM, John Zlotek <zlotekjs@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855
        >
        > Jan-May was OK 18 normal
        > jun-jul ZERO
        > aug 3
        > sept 1
        > Oct 1
        > Nov 2
        > Dec 2
        >
        > There was a normal amount of births through May then something
        > "happened"????
        >
        > In 1856 Jan-March there were 15-Back to normal
        >
        > john
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
        > To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM
        > Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855
        >
        >
        > Good point Sandy.
        >
        > Debbie
        >
        > Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
        > > The PGSA Website references this famine ............ you starve in
        > 1853/4 and not too many babies in 1855. Probably a lot of early
        > miscarriages or deaths with mom... notice the up-tick in deaths that year
        > too.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
        > >
        > >> John Zlotek (a volunteer translator) pointed out to me that in the
        > >> year 1855 there were only 28 births in the Bukowsko _parish_.
        > >>
        > >> I checked the church marriage, baptismal and death records and found
        > >> the following:
        > >>
        > >> 1853 14 marriages 52 births deaths 42
        > >> 1854 18 marriages 54 births deaths 49
        > >> 1855 17 marriages 28 births deaths 61
        > >> 1856 19 marriages 50 births deaths 41
        > >>
        > >> Apparently there was a cholera epidemic in Bukowsko in 1855 as many of
        > >> the death records list this as a cause of death. I suppose cholera was
        > >> a reason not to bring more children into the world at that time.
        > >>
        > >> Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there was a low birth rate
        > >> in 1855?
        > >
        > > Take your pick...
        > >
        > > The cholera epidemic wasn't confined to 1855:
        > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_cholera_pandemic
        > >
        > > Around that time was also the Great Irish Potato Famine, and I always
        > thought that that was confined to the British Isles, but this page suggests
        > there was also famine in Galicia:
        > > http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/myadel/pandemics.htm
        > >
        > > I can't find any other references to famine in Galicia around that time,
        > though, so take it with a grain of salt.
        > >
        > > bye
        > > P
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Debbie Greenlee
        Good point Gloria! No births in June & July 1855 = problem in September 1854 - March 1855. Probably cholera. Looking at the 61 Deaths in 1855, cholera was the
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 22, 2011
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          Good point Gloria!

          No births in June & July 1855 = problem in September 1854 - March
          1855. Probably cholera.

          Looking at the 61 Deaths in 1855, cholera was the cause of death in
          only 16 cases. The cholera deaths were in August through September
          1855 only; none in 1854 or 1856.

          I spotted the Latin word nervosa which probably translates to
          starvation. Think anorexia nervosa. There were three mature adults who
          died from nervosa in 1855.

          However, "ordinary death" (natural causes) is listed for an awful lot
          of deaths. There was a total of 39 deaths that are listed as natural
          causes. I have to question that when 16 children are listed as dying
          from natural causes.

          I wonder if natural causes was listed for some of the cholera or
          starvation deaths?

          In 1854 out of the 49 deaths, 46 were by natural causes.

          Debbie

          Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
          > Think nine months prior----
          >
          > Gloria
          >
          > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:18 AM, John Zlotek <zlotekjs@...> wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >> Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855
          >>
          >> Jan-May was OK 18 normal
          >> jun-jul ZERO
          >> aug 3
          >> sept 1
          >> Oct 1
          >> Nov 2
          >> Dec 2
          >>
          >> There was a normal amount of births through May then something
          >> "happened"????
          >>
          >> In 1856 Jan-March there were 15-Back to normal
          >>
          >> john
          >>
          >> ________________________________
          >> From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
          >> To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
          >> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM
          >> Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855
          >>
          >>
          >> Good point Sandy.
          >>
          >> Debbie
          >>
          >> Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
          >>> The PGSA Website references this famine ............ you starve in
          >> 1853/4 and not too many babies in 1855. Probably a lot of early
          >> miscarriages or deaths with mom... notice the up-tick in deaths that year
          >> too.
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> John Zlotek (a volunteer translator) pointed out to me that in the
          >>>> year 1855 there were only 28 births in the Bukowsko _parish_.
          >>>>
          >>>> I checked the church marriage, baptismal and death records and found
          >>>> the following:
          >>>>
          >>>> 1853 14 marriages 52 births deaths 42
          >>>> 1854 18 marriages 54 births deaths 49
          >>>> 1855 17 marriages 28 births deaths 61
          >>>> 1856 19 marriages 50 births deaths 41
          >>>>
          >>>> Apparently there was a cholera epidemic in Bukowsko in 1855 as many of
          >>>> the death records list this as a cause of death. I suppose cholera was
          >>>> a reason not to bring more children into the world at that time.
          >>>>
          >>>> Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there was a low birth rate
          >>>> in 1855?
          >>> Take your pick...
          >>>
          >>> The cholera epidemic wasn't confined to 1855:
          >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_cholera_pandemic
          >>>
          >>> Around that time was also the Great Irish Potato Famine, and I always
          >> thought that that was confined to the British Isles, but this page suggests
          >> there was also famine in Galicia:
          >>> http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/myadel/pandemics.htm
          >>>
          >>> I can't find any other references to famine in Galicia around that time,
          >> though, so take it with a grain of salt.
          >>> bye
          >>> P
          >
        • Sjmaher5697@aol.com
          So what did the deaths look like in Fall of 1854? Sept-Nov? ... From: Walt/Gloria Elston To: bukowsko_triangle
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 22, 2011
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            So what did the deaths look like in Fall of 1854? Sept-Nov?



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Walt/Gloria Elston <elstonwg@...>
            To: bukowsko_triangle <bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Dec 22, 2011 10:45 am
            Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855


            Think nine months prior----
            Gloria
            On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:18 AM, John Zlotek <zlotekjs@...> wrote:
            > **


            Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855

            Jan-May was OK 18 normal
            jun-jul ZERO
            aug 3
            sept 1
            Oct 1
            Nov 2
            Dec 2

            There was a normal amount of births through May then something
            "happened"????

            In 1856 Jan-March there were 15-Back to normal

            john

            ________________________________
            From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
            To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM
            Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855


            Good point Sandy.

            Debbie

            Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
            > The PGSA Website references this famine ............ you starve in
            1853/4 and not too many babies in 1855. Probably a lot of early
            miscarriages or deaths with mom... notice the up-tick in deaths that year
            too.
            >
            >
            >
            > On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
            >
            >> John Zlotek (a volunteer translator) pointed out to me that in the
            >> year 1855 there were only 28 births in the Bukowsko _parish_.
            >>
            >> I checked the church marriage, baptismal and death records and found
            >> the following:
            >>
            >> 1853 14 marriages 52 births deaths 42
            >> 1854 18 marriages 54 births deaths 49
            >> 1855 17 marriages 28 births deaths 61
            >> 1856 19 marriages 50 births deaths 41
            >>
            >> Apparently there was a cholera epidemic in Bukowsko in 1855 as many of
            >> the death records list this as a cause of death. I suppose cholera was
            >> a reason not to bring more children into the world at that time.
            >>
            >> Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there was a low birth rate
            >> in 1855?
            >
            > Take your pick...
            >
            > The cholera epidemic wasn't confined to 1855:
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_cholera_pandemic
            >
            > Around that time was also the Great Irish Potato Famine, and I always
            thought that that was confined to the British Isles, but this page suggests
            there was also famine in Galicia:
            > http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/myadel/pandemics.htm
            >
            > I can't find any other references to famine in Galicia around that time,
            though, so take it with a grain of salt.
            >
            > bye
            > P
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          • Sjmaher5697@aol.com
            I missed this one, so now I wonder if Natural Causes may have included weak from hunger, caught a cold or fever and died...not really a disease or injury, just
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 22, 2011
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              I missed this one, so now I wonder if Natural Causes may have included weak from hunger, caught a cold or fever and died...not really a disease or injury, just weak and died. Hard way to live.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
              To: bukowsko_triangle <bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Dec 22, 2011 11:59 am
              Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855




              Good point Gloria!

              No births in June & July 1855 = problem in September 1854 - March
              1855. Probably cholera.

              Looking at the 61 Deaths in 1855, cholera was the cause of death in
              only 16 cases. The cholera deaths were in August through September
              1855 only; none in 1854 or 1856.

              I spotted the Latin word nervosa which probably translates to
              starvation. Think anorexia nervosa. There were three mature adults who
              died from nervosa in 1855.

              However, "ordinary death" (natural causes) is listed for an awful lot
              of deaths. There was a total of 39 deaths that are listed as natural
              causes. I have to question that when 16 children are listed as dying
              from natural causes.

              I wonder if natural causes was listed for some of the cholera or
              starvation deaths?

              In 1854 out of the 49 deaths, 46 were by natural causes.

              Debbie

              Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
              > Think nine months prior----
              >
              > Gloria
              >
              > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:18 AM, John Zlotek <zlotekjs@...> wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855
              >>
              >> Jan-May was OK 18 normal
              >> jun-jul ZERO
              >> aug 3
              >> sept 1
              >> Oct 1
              >> Nov 2
              >> Dec 2
              >>
              >> There was a normal amount of births through May then something
              >> "happened"????
              >>
              >> In 1856 Jan-March there were 15-Back to normal
              >>
              >> john
              >>
              >> ________________________________
              >> From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
              >> To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
              >> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM
              >> Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855
              >>
              >>
              >> Good point Sandy.
              >>
              >> Debbie
              >>
              >> Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
              >>> The PGSA Website references this famine ............ you starve in
              >> 1853/4 and not too many babies in 1855. Probably a lot of early
              >> miscarriages or deaths with mom... notice the up-tick in deaths that year
              >> too.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> John Zlotek (a volunteer translator) pointed out to me that in the
              >>>> year 1855 there were only 28 births in the Bukowsko _parish_.
              >>>>
              >>>> I checked the church marriage, baptismal and death records and found
              >>>> the following:
              >>>>
              >>>> 1853 14 marriages 52 births deaths 42
              >>>> 1854 18 marriages 54 births deaths 49
              >>>> 1855 17 marriages 28 births deaths 61
              >>>> 1856 19 marriages 50 births deaths 41
              >>>>
              >>>> Apparently there was a cholera epidemic in Bukowsko in 1855 as many of
              >>>> the death records list this as a cause of death. I suppose cholera was
              >>>> a reason not to bring more children into the world at that time.
              >>>>
              >>>> Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there was a low birth rate
              >>>> in 1855?
              >>> Take your pick...
              >>>
              >>> The cholera epidemic wasn't confined to 1855:
              >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_cholera_pandemic
              >>>
              >>> Around that time was also the Great Irish Potato Famine, and I always
              >> thought that that was confined to the British Isles, but this page suggests
              >> there was also famine in Galicia:
              >>> http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/myadel/pandemics.htm
              >>>
              >>> I can't find any other references to famine in Galicia around that time,
              >> though, so take it with a grain of salt.
              >>> bye
              >>> P
              >






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Debbie Greenlee
              Sandy, Natural causes can also include heart attacks and strokes. So it s difficult to guess what was the real cause. Debbie
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 23, 2011
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                Sandy,

                Natural causes can also include heart attacks and strokes. So it's
                difficult to guess what was the "real" cause.

                Debbie

                Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
                > I missed this one, so now I wonder if Natural Causes may have included weak from hunger, caught a cold or fever and died...not really a disease or injury, just weak and died. Hard way to live.
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
                > To: bukowsko_triangle <bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Thu, Dec 22, 2011 11:59 am
                > Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Good point Gloria!
                >
                > No births in June & July 1855 = problem in September 1854 - March
                > 1855. Probably cholera.
                >
                > Looking at the 61 Deaths in 1855, cholera was the cause of death in
                > only 16 cases. The cholera deaths were in August through September
                > 1855 only; none in 1854 or 1856.
                >
                > I spotted the Latin word nervosa which probably translates to
                > starvation. Think anorexia nervosa. There were three mature adults who
                > died from nervosa in 1855.
                >
                > However, "ordinary death" (natural causes) is listed for an awful lot
                > of deaths. There was a total of 39 deaths that are listed as natural
                > causes. I have to question that when 16 children are listed as dying
                > from natural causes.
                >
                > I wonder if natural causes was listed for some of the cholera or
                > starvation deaths?
                >
                > In 1854 out of the 49 deaths, 46 were by natural causes.
                >
                > Debbie
                >
                > Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
                >> Think nine months prior----
                >>
                >> Gloria
                >>
                >> On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:18 AM, John Zlotek <zlotekjs@...> wrote:
                >>
                >>> **
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Here is the breakdown on the baptisms for 1855
                >>>
                >>> Jan-May was OK 18 normal
                >>> jun-jul ZERO
                >>> aug 3
                >>> sept 1
                >>> Oct 1
                >>> Nov 2
                >>> Dec 2
                >>>
                >>> There was a normal amount of births through May then something
                >>> "happened"????
                >>>
                >>> In 1856 Jan-March there were 15-Back to normal
                >>>
                >>> john
                >>>
                >>> ________________________________
                >>> From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
                >>> To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM
                >>> Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Bukowsko Baptisms 1855
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Good point Sandy.
                >>>
                >>> Debbie
                >>>
                >>> Sjmaher5697@... wrote:
                >>>> The PGSA Website references this famine ............ you starve in
                >>> 1853/4 and not too many babies in 1855. Probably a lot of early
                >>> miscarriages or deaths with mom... notice the up-tick in deaths that year
                >>> too.
                >>>>
                >>>> On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Debbie Greenlee wrote:
                >>>>
                >>>>> John Zlotek (a volunteer translator) pointed out to me that in the
                >>>>> year 1855 there were only 28 births in the Bukowsko _parish_.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> I checked the church marriage, baptismal and death records and found
                >>>>> the following:
                >>>>>
                >>>>> 1853 14 marriages 52 births deaths 42
                >>>>> 1854 18 marriages 54 births deaths 49
                >>>>> 1855 17 marriages 28 births deaths 61
                >>>>> 1856 19 marriages 50 births deaths 41
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Apparently there was a cholera epidemic in Bukowsko in 1855 as many of
                >>>>> the death records list this as a cause of death. I suppose cholera was
                >>>>> a reason not to bring more children into the world at that time.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Does anyone have any other ideas as to why there was a low birth rate
                >>>>> in 1855?
                >>>> Take your pick...
                >>>>
                >>>> The cholera epidemic wasn't confined to 1855:
                >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_cholera_pandemic
                >>>>
                >>>> Around that time was also the Great Irish Potato Famine, and I always
                >>> thought that that was confined to the British Isles, but this page suggests
                >>> there was also famine in Galicia:
                >>>> http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/myadel/pandemics.htm
                >>>>
                >>>> I can't find any other references to famine in Galicia around that time,
                >>> though, so take it with a grain of salt.
                >>>> bye
                >>>> P
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
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