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Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Illegitimate Notations in Civil Records

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  • Philip Semanchuk
    ... Thanks for sharing, that s interesting. In my experience I ve seen (almost?) no records where the father was listed is the birth is explicitly marked
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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      On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:

      > I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital records.
      > One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
      > and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
      > the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
      > suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just a
      > slip of the pen.


      Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.

      In my experience I've seen (almost?) no records where the father was listed is the birth is explicitly marked "illegitimate". Always find it frustrating. I don't think I've ever seen "illegitimate" in anything but a birth record, though.



      bye
      P
    • Walt/Gloria Elston
      Actually, I have seen the illeg. label carried all through a person s life in church records(birth, marriage, death) many times (without the father listed).
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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        Actually, I have seen the illeg. label carried all through a person's life
        in church records(birth, marriage, death) many times (without the father
        listed). I've always thought it was sad that the child carried the social
        stigma .

        Gloria

        On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
        >
        > > I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital
        > records.
        > > One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
        > > and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
        > > the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
        > > suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just
        > a
        > > slip of the pen.
        >
        > Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.
        >
        > In my experience I've seen (almost?) no records where the father was listed
        > is the birth is explicitly marked "illegitimate". Always find it
        > frustrating. I don't think I've ever seen "illegitimate" in anything but a
        > birth record, though.
        >
        > bye
        > P
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Philip Semanchuk
        ... You re right, that s really nasty. I figured that it was one of those things that everyone in the village knew but mentioned mostly behind closed doors. If
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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          On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:

          > Actually, I have seen the illeg. label carried all through a person's life
          > in church records(birth, marriage, death) many times (without the father
          > listed). I've always thought it was sad that the child carried the social
          > stigma .

          You're right, that's really nasty. I figured that it was one of those things that everyone in the village knew but mentioned mostly behind closed doors. If its stigmatizing, no need to keep bringing it up, especially in official records. Sheesh.


          >
          > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...>wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
          >>
          >>> I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital
          >> records.
          >>> One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
          >>> and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
          >>> the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
          >>> suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just
          >> a
          >>> slip of the pen.
          >>
          >> Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.
          >>
          >> In my experience I've seen (almost?) no records where the father was listed
          >> is the birth is explicitly marked "illegitimate". Always find it
          >> frustrating. I don't think I've ever seen "illegitimate" in anything but a
          >> birth record, though.
          >>
          >> bye
          >> P
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • wengryn
          I suspect that this is probably the case even if the parents ended up getting married. We had this situation in my family (1 generation removed only) and
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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            I suspect that this is probably the case even if the parents ended up getting married. We had this situation in my family (1 generation removed only) and sadly, the stigma was still there. A very rigid mentality, it seems. Terrible!

            --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
            >
            > > Actually, I have seen the illeg. label carried all through a person's life
            > > in church records(birth, marriage, death) many times (without the father
            > > listed). I've always thought it was sad that the child carried the social
            > > stigma .
            >
            > You're right, that's really nasty. I figured that it was one of those things that everyone in the village knew but mentioned mostly behind closed doors. If its stigmatizing, no need to keep bringing it up, especially in official records. Sheesh.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...>wrote:
            > >
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
            > >>
            > >>> I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital
            > >> records.
            > >>> One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
            > >>> and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
            > >>> the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
            > >>> suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just
            > >> a
            > >>> slip of the pen.
            > >>
            > >> Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.
            > >>
            > >> In my experience I've seen (almost?) no records where the father was listed
            > >> is the birth is explicitly marked "illegitimate". Always find it
            > >> frustrating. I don't think I've ever seen "illegitimate" in anything but a
            > >> birth record, though.
            > >>
            > >> bye
            > >> P
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Debbie Greenlee
            Gloria and Philip, My experience has been the same as Gloria s. Once a child was marked as illegitimate he/she was always listed that way. Debbie
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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              Gloria and Philip,

              My experience has been the same as Gloria's. Once a child was marked
              as illegitimate he/she was always listed that way.

              Debbie

              Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
              > Actually, I have seen the illeg. label carried all through a person's life
              > in church records(birth, marriage, death) many times (without the father
              > listed). I've always thought it was sad that the child carried the social
              > stigma .
              >
              > Gloria
              >
              > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...>wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:24 AM, Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
              >>
              >>> I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital
              >> records.
              >>> One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
              >>> and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
              >>> the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
              >>> suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just
              >> a
              >>> slip of the pen.
              >> Thanks for sharing, that's interesting.
              >>
              >> In my experience I've seen (almost?) no records where the father was listed
              >> is the birth is explicitly marked "illegitimate". Always find it
              >> frustrating. I don't think I've ever seen "illegitimate" in anything but a
              >> birth record, though.
              >>
              >> bye
              >> P
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Debbie Greenlee
              Gloria, First issue: I wonder if the father s name was added after the baby was born and _after_ the parents got married? The second issue is weird. Are you
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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                Gloria,

                First issue: I wonder if the father's name was added after the baby
                was born and _after_ the parents got married?

                The second issue is weird. Are you sure the name in the father's
                column _is_ a male given name and not a female given name?

                I have no definitive answers for either question.

                Debbie



                Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
                > I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital records.
                > One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
                > and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
                > the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
                > suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just a
                > slip of the pen.
                >
                > Gloria
                >
              • Sjmaher5697@aol.com
                I have seem several instances where the father s name was written in even though the child was listed as illegitimate. In one case I know of for sure...the
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 15, 2010
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                  I have seem several instances where the father's name was written in even though the child was listed as illegitimate. In one case I know of for sure...the parents did not ever marry. I was told somewhere along the line that the father might be listed if he acknowledges his child even if they do not marry. I wish that would have happened more often...would have solved a couple of mysteries for me...



                  Sandy


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
                  To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2010 11:17 am
                  Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Illegitimate Notations in Civil Records




                  Gloria,

                  First issue: I wonder if the father's name was added after the baby
                  was born and _after_ the parents got married?

                  The second issue is weird. Are you sure the name in the father's
                  column _is_ a male given name and not a female given name?

                  I have no definitive answers for either question.

                  Debbie

                  Walt/Gloria Elston wrote:
                  > I have come across two notations that I think are unusual in vital records.
                  > One is the birth of a child that is noted as Illegitimate and both father
                  > and mother are both listed. Another is a death record of a person who is
                  > the illegitimate son of ----the name of only the father is listed. I
                  > suppose it could be peculiar to one priest who makes the entries or just a
                  > slip of the pen.
                  >
                  > Gloria
                  >






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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