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Feinting over and over.

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  • bardnoir
    Let me start by saying I m a Karate instructor so to me this makes perfect sense and it seems VERY cinematic. But does it also seem to break the rules is
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 25 12:15 PM
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      Let me start by saying I'm a Karate instructor so to me this makes
      perfect sense and it seems VERY cinematic. But does it also seem to
      break the rules is anyone else's opinion.

      Now I will actually be using the Angel rules for this one as they are
      considered - Revised from the first run of the Buffy Core Rules...

      Feint "If the attacker wins, he can add the SL of the Feint roll to
      her next attack action roll against the same opponent."

      Now the question - Is there anything to prevent your next attack
      action roll from being yet ANOTHER feint?

      Let me give you a real life example. In Kumite/Sparring I'll throw a
      slow and short kick that I hope my opponent will block, but I'm not
      watching him block my kick, I'm watching his other hand. I then throw
      a similar kick followed by a punch both of which I hope he blocks so I
      can see what he's doing. I THEN set him up for an opening this time
      moving faster than I did the previous times.

      In game terms I "Feint" then "Feint" again. I see what his pattern is
      and then finally make my true attack.

      What I imagine in a Buffy game is two "Masters" going through Feint
      after Feint, each trying to read the others timing, looking to see who
      will give something away first. Finally when one feels he's ready he
      makes the final attack that shoves the other guy back 9 steps. But the
      other guys just dusts himself off ("I think I'm okay") and strikes a
      pose (he has built up successes from his own feints after all) and
      they go at it again.

      So going back to the point - does anyone see anything game wise that
      would seem too over powering for the use of Feint after Feint to rack
      up a bunch of success levels and then make one big strike.
    • Kevin
      I m not sure if it would be too powerful or not. If you did allow it, I would add that taking damage before your actual strike would negate all of the feint
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 25 1:32 PM
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        I'm not sure if it would be too powerful or not.

        If you did allow it, I would add that taking damage before your actual
        strike would negate all of the feint bonus.

        I might even say that having to defend at all would negate any feint
        bonus gained before the defense, since it seems to me that having to
        make blocks yourself would prove at least distracting.

        Can your opponent feint against your feint to negate your feint bonus?
        (asked The Cat in the Hat).
      • Greg Pearson
        ... Not really. While you re jumping around getting ready for your big strike, the other side is busy pounding you into Jell-o. That should make up for any
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 25 2:56 PM
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          On Apr 25, 2008, at 15:15, bardnoir wrote:
          >
          > So going back to the point - does anyone see anything game wise that
          > would seem too over powering for the use of Feint after Feint to rack
          > up a bunch of success levels and then make one big strike.

          Not really. While you're jumping around getting ready for your big
          strike, the other side is busy pounding you into Jell-o. That should
          make up for any advantage.

          Greg Pearson
          "Vampires vs. Nazis. How do you even choose sides in that?"
          --Drew, Slaying Solomon episode 4.19 "Kessler's Heroes"
          http://www.velvet-edge.com/buffy
        • bardnoir
          ... rack ... Well as I was saying in my example, from a Kumite stand point (which isn t like a real fight where two people just wrestle on the ground until one
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 26 4:29 AM
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            --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, Greg Pearson <gregpearson@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > On Apr 25, 2008, at 15:15, bardnoir wrote:
            > >
            > > So going back to the point - does anyone see anything game wise that
            > > would seem too over powering for the use of Feint after Feint to
            rack
            > > up a bunch of success levels and then make one big strike.
            >
            > Not really. While you're jumping around getting ready for your big
            > strike, the other side is busy pounding you into Jell-o. That should
            > make up for any advantage.
            >
            > Greg Pearson

            Well as I was saying in my example, from a Kumite stand point (which
            isn't like a real fight where two people just wrestle on the ground
            until one beats the others face in, but then again neither is the
            Cinematic Buffy System) I'd be seeing how hard you hit, how fast you
            kick, I'm storing all of this information to calculate what my next
            series of strikes is going to be.

            However, I think I've also answered my own question thanks to you guys.
            You've both made me realize where the line on this question should have
            been drawn.
            1) I'd be once again trying to bring too much realism into a Cinematic
            Setting.
            and
            2) In the realistic version this bonus as described wouldn't just go
            away so easily. If I'm trying to quickly compile a mental database of
            how you fight that's not information I loose from second to second.
            It's up to YOU to realize I'm doing this and change your tactics...
            something that would add yet MORE complication to the system.

            I think, in general, Feint isn't a system as it is a one shot move.
            I fake like I'm going to kick but I really punch. You just drop you
            hand to block the kick giving my punch the opening I hope it does and
            that's it. In that spirit if I "Feint Kick" and follow with a "Feint
            Punch" it wouldn't matter what the kick scored success wise because the
            Punch was never meant to hit in the first place.

            Not saying you didn't have good answers, but when this realization hit
            me I thought I'd share incase someone wanted to jump in on my side of
            the argument.

            Heh-heh!
          • Katie
            You could, but personally I wouldn t let the bonuses stack like that. You get the SLs of Feint #1 to use on Feint #2, etc--that s your next attack move, so
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 26 5:51 AM
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              You could, but personally I wouldn't let the bonuses stack like that.
              You get the SLs of Feint #1 to use on Feint #2, etc--that's your next
              attack move, so that's the roll you add the bonus to. Now, that may
              end up making that a higher roll with more SLs that you can add to the
              next roll, or it may not. But that bad guy's going to figure out you
              keep doing it and spend a drama point to not get fooled after one or
              two of those, and you haven't been doing any damage to him in the
              meantime, so I'd say there's not much point in continuing to Feint
              rather than attack for real and do some damage.

              --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, "bardnoir" <bardnoir@...> wrote:
              >
              > Let me start by saying I'm a Karate instructor so to me this makes
              > perfect sense and it seems VERY cinematic. But does it also seem to
              > break the rules is anyone else's opinion.
              >
              > Now I will actually be using the Angel rules for this one as they are
              > considered - Revised from the first run of the Buffy Core Rules...
              >
              > Feint "If the attacker wins, he can add the SL of the Feint roll to
              > her next attack action roll against the same opponent."
              >
              > Now the question - Is there anything to prevent your next attack
              > action roll from being yet ANOTHER feint?
              >
              > Let me give you a real life example. In Kumite/Sparring I'll throw a
              > slow and short kick that I hope my opponent will block, but I'm not
              > watching him block my kick, I'm watching his other hand. I then throw
              > a similar kick followed by a punch both of which I hope he blocks so I
              > can see what he's doing. I THEN set him up for an opening this time
              > moving faster than I did the previous times.
              >
              > In game terms I "Feint" then "Feint" again. I see what his pattern is
              > and then finally make my true attack.
              >
              > What I imagine in a Buffy game is two "Masters" going through Feint
              > after Feint, each trying to read the others timing, looking to see who
              > will give something away first. Finally when one feels he's ready he
              > makes the final attack that shoves the other guy back 9 steps. But the
              > other guys just dusts himself off ("I think I'm okay") and strikes a
              > pose (he has built up successes from his own feints after all) and
              > they go at it again.
              >
              > So going back to the point - does anyone see anything game wise that
              > would seem too over powering for the use of Feint after Feint to rack
              > up a bunch of success levels and then make one big strike.
              >
            • Jim Bruni
              Of course a professional fighter could have a Wild card skill that adds to combat like Acrobatics does to jump Kick. numsix the Village *no electrons were
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 28 7:06 AM
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                Of course a professional fighter could have a Wild card skill that adds to combat like Acrobatics does to jump Kick.

                numsix the Village

                *no electrons were harmed in this email

                To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
                From: bardnoir@...
                Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:29:29 +0000
                Subject: [btvsrpg-eden] Re: Feinting over and over.




















                --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, Greg Pearson <gregpearson@...>

                wrote:

                >

                > On Apr 25, 2008, at 15:15, bardnoir wrote:

                > >

                > > So going back to the point - does anyone see anything game wise that

                > > would seem too over powering for the use of Feint after Feint to

                rack

                > > up a bunch of success levels and then make one big strike.

                >

                > Not really. While you're jumping around getting ready for your big

                > strike, the other side is busy pounding you into Jell-o. That should

                > make up for any advantage.

                >

                > Greg Pearson



                Well as I was saying in my example, from a Kumite stand point (which

                isn't like a real fight where two people just wrestle on the ground

                until one beats the others face in, but then again neither is the

                Cinematic Buffy System) I'd be seeing how hard you hit, how fast you

                kick, I'm storing all of this information to calculate what my next

                series of strikes is going to be.



                However, I think I've also answered my own question thanks to you guys.

                You've both made me realize where the line on this question should have

                been drawn.

                1) I'd be once again trying to bring too much realism into a Cinematic

                Setting.

                and

                2) In the realistic version this bonus as described wouldn't just go

                away so easily. If I'm trying to quickly compile a mental database of

                how you fight that's not information I loose from second to second.

                It's up to YOU to realize I'm doing this and change your tactics...

                something that would add yet MORE complication to the system.



                I think, in general, Feint isn't a system as it is a one shot move.

                I fake like I'm going to kick but I really punch. You just drop you

                hand to block the kick giving my punch the opening I hope it does and

                that's it. In that spirit if I "Feint Kick" and follow with a "Feint

                Punch" it wouldn't matter what the kick scored success wise because the

                Punch was never meant to hit in the first place.



                Not saying you didn't have good answers, but when this realization hit

                me I thought I'd share incase someone wanted to jump in on my side of

                the argument.



                Heh-heh!
























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