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Witch and vampire?

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  • floaujapon
    Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my players would like to do a vampire doing magic. Thinking about it, it occured to me that
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 17, 2007
      Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my
      players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
      Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen vampires
      using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
    • Leander Medina
      In both TV series vampires used magic or got others to do the spells for them, now the only vamp who had sorcery was good ole Drac. To:
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 17, 2007
        In both TV series vampires used magic or got others to do the spells for them, now the only vamp who had sorcery was good ole Drac.


        To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.comFrom: floaujapon@...: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:18:55 +0000Subject: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?




        Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my players would like to do a vampire doing magic. Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen vampires using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?






        _________________________________________________________________
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gerry
        ... More than likely, it s because most vampires likely don t have the right mentality to use magic. Most vamps seen on the show aren t exactly the brightest.
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 17, 2007
          >Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my
          >players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
          >Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen vampires
          >using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?

          More than likely, it's because most vampires likely don't have the right mentality to use magic. Most vamps seen on the show aren't exactly the brightest.

          That doesn't mean they don't; Angel was seen doing an exorcism on his show, and I'm sure Spike used a ritual at least once.

          We've never seen any use Sorcery, but I don't think it's impossible for one to have that ability (though it can be costly for a beginning cast member, taking both Sorcery and the Vampire quality)

          as an aside, there's a file in the magic section called "The Codex Vitae". It's a four spells (one's a quick cast, so it requires Sorcery) that I adapted from some Thaumaturgy rituals from the old Vampire rpg. They're designed to be used by Vampires, and some affect other Vampires. You might find them useful for your game
        • Timothy S. Brannan
          It can be done. Here is one I did (and the rationale for a vampire witch) last year.
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 18, 2007
            It can be done.



            Here is one I did (and the rationale for a vampire witch) last year.

            http://p205.ezboard.com/fedenstudiosdiscussionboardsfrm12.showMessage?topicI
            D=4108.topic



            Tim



            _____

            From: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com [mailto:btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of floaujapon
            Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 5:19 PM
            To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?



            Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my
            players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
            Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen vampires
            using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sherry Dale
            Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know about vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell to allow them to get away.
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
              Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know about
              vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell to allow them
              to get away. Therefore there would not be many vampire mages. Also mages
              are rare to begin with so perhaps that also plays a part.

              On Nov 17, 2007 6:18 PM, floaujapon <floaujapon@...> wrote:

              > Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my
              > players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
              > Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen vampires
              > using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Foebane
              Well the way I look at the vampire-witch is that they are of a similar percentage as human witches. So we saw four witches or so in the entire Buffy show and
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 26, 2007
                Well the way I look at the vampire-witch is that they are of a similar percentage as human witches. So we saw four witches or so in the entire Buffy show and how many normal people. So we saw one vampire-witch (Dracula) and Buffy had how many vampires on it?


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Sherry Dale
                To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:56 PM
                Subject: Re: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?


                Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know about
                vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell to allow them
                to get away. Therefore there would not be many vampire mages. Also mages
                are rare to begin with so perhaps that also plays a part.

                On Nov 17, 2007 6:18 PM, floaujapon <floaujapon@...> wrote:

                > Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one of my
                > players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
                > Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen vampires
                > using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rowan P. C. Tritton
                Don t forget the four or five villian warlocks/witches we saw lick Rack, Catherine the Great (Trophy!!!) and... Jonathan, we even had a couple who were demons.
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 26, 2007
                  Don't forget the four or five villian warlocks/witches we saw lick
                  Rack, Catherine the Great (Trophy!!!) and... Jonathan, we even had a
                  couple who were demons.

                  BtVS in its run featured at least 10 warlocks/witches, although Drac
                  was the only vampire warlock. I think it all comes down to a vampire
                  not having the application for anything more than simple spells to
                  devote their energies into becoming a great magical power, although
                  I'd guess those warlock/witches who were turned would most likely
                  keep up the practice.

                  Cheers
                  Rowan/LSWSjr
                  The Aussie UniSystem Addict


                  --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, "Foebane" <foebane100@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well the way I look at the vampire-witch is that they are of a
                  similar percentage as human witches. So we saw four witches or so in
                  the entire Buffy show and how many normal people. So we saw one
                  vampire-witch (Dracula) and Buffy had how many vampires on it?
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Sherry Dale
                  > To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:56 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?
                  >
                  >
                  > Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know
                  about
                  > vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell to
                  allow them
                  > to get away. Therefore there would not be many vampire mages.
                  Also mages
                  > are rare to begin with so perhaps that also plays a part.
                  >
                  > On Nov 17, 2007 6:18 PM, floaujapon <floaujapon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and one
                  of my
                  > > players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
                  > > Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen
                  vampires
                  > > using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Kimberlee
                  You camn always rule that because a vampire is not truly living, he cannot command the higher spells that need to be channeled through a living body. (Only
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 27, 2007
                    You camn always rule that because a vampire is not truly living, he
                    cannot command the higher spells that need to be channeled through a
                    living body. (Only the lower level spells can get through the
                    undead sludge of a body.) Or maybe it's the soul that's the key.

                    Drac, being a VERY stubborn guy, could have done it by force of
                    will; in that case, you can have the PC use only the most basic
                    spells, and for each Willpower point above what you set, they can do
                    more powerful levels of spells. (For example, if you set this high
                    willpower at 7, then a vamp/witch with a willpower of 9 could do up
                    to 3rd level spells, with 4th level being the maximum; or, you could
                    do 2 per level, with that vamp/witch now being able to cast up to
                    5th level spells, with a max of 7th level.)

                    That's only if you're worried about power levels. But I think it
                    would be good to limit it as Drac, the infamous Count Dracula, was
                    the only spell casting vamp we saw, as I recall.

                    (Maybe vamps, being low on the demon totem pole and more human than
                    the other demons [remember True Demons are mega-bad@ss and almost
                    extinct and don't come here often anymore] can't cast because of
                    mixed-bood? Or something??)

                    Kim (shivering at the abuse potential with a vamp/witch)

                    --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, "Rowan P. C. Tritton"
                    <lswsjr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Don't forget the four or five villian warlocks/witches we saw lick
                    > Rack, Catherine the Great (Trophy!!!) and... Jonathan, we even had
                    a
                    > couple who were demons.
                    >
                    > BtVS in its run featured at least 10 warlocks/witches, although
                    Drac
                    > was the only vampire warlock. I think it all comes down to a
                    vampire
                    > not having the application for anything more than simple spells to
                    > devote their energies into becoming a great magical power,
                    although
                    > I'd guess those warlock/witches who were turned would most likely
                    > keep up the practice.
                    >
                    > Cheers
                    > Rowan/LSWSjr
                    > The Aussie UniSystem Addict
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, "Foebane" <foebane100@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Well the way I look at the vampire-witch is that they are of a
                    > similar percentage as human witches. So we saw four witches or so
                    in
                    > the entire Buffy show and how many normal people. So we saw one
                    > vampire-witch (Dracula) and Buffy had how many vampires on it?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Sherry Dale
                    > > To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:56 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know
                    > about
                    > > vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell
                    to
                    > allow them
                    > > to get away. Therefore there would not be many vampire mages.
                    > Also mages
                    > > are rare to begin with so perhaps that also plays a part.
                    > >
                    > > On Nov 17, 2007 6:18 PM, floaujapon <floaujapon@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and
                    one
                    > of my
                    > > > players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
                    > > > Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen
                    > vampires
                    > > > using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • Sherry Dale
                    Dracula did the gypsy shape change spell on the show repeatedly, this is a level 7 spell. So he must have been very powerful to keep doing it that often, and
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 28, 2007
                      Dracula did the gypsy shape change spell on the show repeatedly, this is a
                      level 7 spell. So he must have been very powerful to keep doing it that
                      often, and in a row, and racking up those penalties to his rolls.

                      On Nov 27, 2007 10:44 PM, Kimberlee <blackwood13@...> wrote:

                      > You camn always rule that because a vampire is not truly living, he
                      > cannot command the higher spells that need to be channeled through a
                      > living body. (Only the lower level spells can get through the
                      > undead sludge of a body.) Or maybe it's the soul that's the key.
                      >
                      > Drac, being a VERY stubborn guy, could have done it by force of
                      > will; in that case, you can have the PC use only the most basic
                      > spells, and for each Willpower point above what you set, they can do
                      > more powerful levels of spells. (For example, if you set this high
                      > willpower at 7, then a vamp/witch with a willpower of 9 could do up
                      > to 3rd level spells, with 4th level being the maximum; or, you could
                      > do 2 per level, with that vamp/witch now being able to cast up to
                      > 5th level spells, with a max of 7th level.)
                      >
                      > That's only if you're worried about power levels. But I think it
                      > would be good to limit it as Drac, the infamous Count Dracula, was
                      > the only spell casting vamp we saw, as I recall.
                      >
                      > (Maybe vamps, being low on the demon totem pole and more human than
                      > the other demons [remember True Demons are mega-bad@ss and almost
                      > extinct and don't come here often anymore] can't cast because of
                      > mixed-bood? Or something??)
                      >
                      > Kim (shivering at the abuse potential with a vamp/witch)
                      >
                      > --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com <btvsrpg-eden%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > "Rowan P. C. Tritton"
                      > <lswsjr@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Don't forget the four or five villian warlocks/witches we saw lick
                      > > Rack, Catherine the Great (Trophy!!!) and... Jonathan, we even had
                      > a
                      > > couple who were demons.
                      > >
                      > > BtVS in its run featured at least 10 warlocks/witches, although
                      > Drac
                      > > was the only vampire warlock. I think it all comes down to a
                      > vampire
                      > > not having the application for anything more than simple spells to
                      > > devote their energies into becoming a great magical power,
                      > although
                      > > I'd guess those warlock/witches who were turned would most likely
                      > > keep up the practice.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers
                      > > Rowan/LSWSjr
                      > > The Aussie UniSystem Addict
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com <btvsrpg-eden%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > "Foebane" <foebane100@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Well the way I look at the vampire-witch is that they are of a
                      > > similar percentage as human witches. So we saw four witches or so
                      > in
                      > > the entire Buffy show and how many normal people. So we saw one
                      > > vampire-witch (Dracula) and Buffy had how many vampires on it?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Sherry Dale
                      > > > To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com <btvsrpg-eden%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:56 PM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know
                      > > about
                      > > > vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell
                      > to
                      > > allow them
                      > > > to get away. Therefore there would not be many vampire mages.
                      > > Also mages
                      > > > are rare to begin with so perhaps that also plays a part.
                      > > >
                      > > > On Nov 17, 2007 6:18 PM, floaujapon <floaujapon@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and
                      > one
                      > > of my
                      > > > > players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
                      > > > > Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen
                      > > vampires
                      > > > > using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • DM
                      Just as the Slayer was born to combat the forces of darkness, perhaps there could be an organization that specializes in the destruction of spell slinging
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 28, 2007
                        Just as the Slayer was born to combat the forces of darkness, perhaps there could be an organization that specializes in the destruction of spell slinging vamps. This could explain why there aren’t so many of them.

                        For a plot twist (what a tweest) Drac could have been in some state of control over the organization which is why he wasn’t targeted, but used it to target other potential threats to his power.

                        Another stipulation could be that when a vamp casts spells, it sets off weird mojo that can be tracked, which is what these specialized hunters used to locate these vamps.

                        So if the player gets abusive with these kewl p0wrz, bam! New Antagonists specifically designed to handle this.

                        -DM

                        Sherry Dale <mageofmyth@...> wrote:
                        Dracula did the gypsy shape change spell on the show repeatedly, this is a
                        level 7 spell. So he must have been very powerful to keep doing it that
                        often, and in a row, and racking up those penalties to his rolls.

                        On Nov 27, 2007 10:44 PM, Kimberlee <blackwood13@...> wrote:

                        > You camn always rule that because a vampire is not truly living, he
                        > cannot command the higher spells that need to be channeled through a
                        > living body. (Only the lower level spells can get through the
                        > undead sludge of a body.) Or maybe it's the soul that's the key.
                        >
                        > Drac, being a VERY stubborn guy, could have done it by force of
                        > will; in that case, you can have the PC use only the most basic
                        > spells, and for each Willpower point above what you set, they can do
                        > more powerful levels of spells. (For example, if you set this high
                        > willpower at 7, then a vamp/witch with a willpower of 9 could do up
                        > to 3rd level spells, with 4th level being the maximum; or, you could
                        > do 2 per level, with that vamp/witch now being able to cast up to
                        > 5th level spells, with a max of 7th level.)
                        >
                        > That's only if you're worried about power levels. But I think it
                        > would be good to limit it as Drac, the infamous Count Dracula, was
                        > the only spell casting vamp we saw, as I recall.
                        >
                        > (Maybe vamps, being low on the demon totem pole and more human than
                        > the other demons [remember True Demons are mega-bad@ss and almost
                        > extinct and don't come here often anymore] can't cast because of
                        > mixed-bood? Or something??)
                        >
                        > Kim (shivering at the abuse potential with a vamp/witch)
                        >
                        > --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com <btvsrpg-eden%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Rowan P. C. Tritton"
                        > <lswsjr@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Don't forget the four or five villian warlocks/witches we saw lick
                        > > Rack, Catherine the Great (Trophy!!!) and... Jonathan, we even had
                        > a
                        > > couple who were demons.
                        > >
                        > > BtVS in its run featured at least 10 warlocks/witches, although
                        > Drac
                        > > was the only vampire warlock. I think it all comes down to a
                        > vampire
                        > > not having the application for anything more than simple spells to
                        > > devote their energies into becoming a great magical power,
                        > although
                        > > I'd guess those warlock/witches who were turned would most likely
                        > > keep up the practice.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers
                        > > Rowan/LSWSjr
                        > > The Aussie UniSystem Addict
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com <btvsrpg-eden%40yahoogroups.com>,
                        > "Foebane" <foebane100@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Well the way I look at the vampire-witch is that they are of a
                        > > similar percentage as human witches. So we saw four witches or so
                        > in
                        > > the entire Buffy show and how many normal people. So we saw one
                        > > vampire-witch (Dracula) and Buffy had how many vampires on it?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: Sherry Dale
                        > > > To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com <btvsrpg-eden%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:56 PM
                        > > > Subject: Re: [btvsrpg-eden] Witch and vampire?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Personally, I would say that the big reason is that mages know
                        > > about
                        > > > vampires and either stay in at night or have a hand hold spell
                        > to
                        > > allow them
                        > > > to get away. Therefore there would not be many vampire mages.
                        > > Also mages
                        > > > are rare to begin with so perhaps that also plays a part.
                        > > >
                        > > > On Nov 17, 2007 6:18 PM, floaujapon <floaujapon@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > Hi, I am planning to restart a BtVS rpg with my players and
                        > one
                        > > of my
                        > > > > players would like to do a vampire doing magic.
                        > > > > Thinking about it, it occured to me that we have not seen
                        > > vampires
                        > > > > using magic that often. Is there any special reason for it?
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • timothy.brannan@comcast.net
                        Ok. Just to be difficult. Let s say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was vamped. Then what? Tim Timothy S. Brannan timothy.brannan@comcast.net Sent via my
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 28, 2007
                          Ok.

                          Just to be difficult.
                          Let's say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was vamped. Then what?


                          Tim

                          Timothy S. Brannan
                          timothy.brannan@...

                          Sent via my Treo 755 Smartphone
                        • Greg Pearson
                          ... Yes and no. I don t think you can really make a good case one way or the other based on the show. Yeah, we never saw much in the way of spell slinging
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 29, 2007
                            On Nov 27, 2007, at 22:44, Kimberlee wrote:

                            > You camn always rule that because a vampire is not truly living, he
                            > cannot command the higher spells that need to be channeled through a
                            > living body. (Only the lower level spells can get through the
                            > undead sludge of a body.) Or maybe it's the soul that's the key.
                            >
                            > That's only if you're worried about power levels. But I think it
                            > would be good to limit it as Drac, the infamous Count Dracula, was
                            > the only spell casting vamp we saw, as I recall.
                            >
                            > Kim (shivering at the abuse potential with a vamp/witch)

                            Yes and no. I don't think you can really make a good case one way or
                            the other based on the show. Yeah, we never saw much in the way of
                            spell slinging vampires. Then again, we never saw an all-vampire death
                            metal band, but you know they've gotta be out there.

                            There's certainly no direct evidence for any lack of magical power
                            among vampire kind. Drusilla definitely had powers beyond those of
                            normal vampires. And the various vampires that we saw certainly seemed
                            to have no difficulty with your typical villainous world-ending magic
                            ritual.

                            Then again, none of those are what the game would classify as Sorcery,
                            either. As many people have pointed out, the only vamp to show what's
                            clearly the Sorcery quality is Drac. And he doesn't really count; as
                            the most famous and powerful of vampires, you can ascribe whatever
                            wacky qualities you want to him that are beyond those of normal vamps.

                            So, if all you're looking to do is justify a yes/no decision, you can
                            make a plausible case from the show for whatever you want to do.

                            Lots of people here hate the idea because of the potential for abuse,
                            not without justification. It's certainly a very powerful concept,
                            although not the most abusive thing I could think of. On the plus
                            side, Sorcery is based off Will, which isn't something vamps get
                            bonuses to, and which is still limited to human max. So, while it's a
                            combination of two powerful abilities, it's not like one is making the
                            other more powerful. More to the point, we don't know the power level
                            of the campaign. If the the Director is even entertaining this
                            concept, it suggests that we're not talking a Hero and a bunch of White
                            Hats. For all we know, the rest of the cast is a Werewolf Slayer, an
                            Initiative Commando Watcher, and Ilyria.

                            Personally, I don't like the idea, either. I've never been fond of
                            player character vampires (except, of course, of the occasional
                            one-shot alternate universe episode), anyway, and it would be pretty
                            hard to convince me to allow one of any stripe in one of my games. But
                            we don't really have enough information to judge whether or not such a
                            thing would be appropriate for the campaign in question.

                            Bottom line -- do what you want; the show doesn't provide any firm
                            guidance one way or the other.

                            Greg Pearson
                            "Vampires vs. Nazis. How do you even choose sides in that?"
                            --Drew, Slaying Solomon episode 4.19 "Kessler's Heroes"
                            http://www.velvet-edge.com/buffy
                          • Rowan P. C. Tritton
                            Let s say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was vamped. Then what? -Timothy S. Brannan Well it would be like vampires who suffer injuries (mental or physical)
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 29, 2007
                              Let's say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was vamped. Then what?

                              -Timothy S. Brannan


                              Well it would be like vampires who suffer injuries (mental or
                              physical) prior to being turned, chances are it'll be business as
                              usual.

                              Warlocks and Witches of the Whedonverse are generally born not made
                              (unless you get possessed by powerful gypsy mojo to carry out the
                              recursing of a vampire or something), generally all those who
                              otherwise cast spells in the lack the same level of power.

                              Jonathan for example is not a Warlock, nor is Angel or Spike, nor
                              Giles or Xander or Oz or Andrew or Dawn. They have all used the mojo
                              but none of them are what we'd consider Warlocks/Witches.

                              It could be assumed that because the status of being a Warlock/Witch
                              is generally inborn, it would be safe to have a Vampire Witch as long
                              as they have magic in the family tree.

                              Although vampires generally aren't known for personal development
                              (having forever to get around to things being the main cause), I
                              wouln't expect a Vampire Witch to have gained or gain a lot of power
                              post turning unless they have a fair few years under their belt
                              (possibly even the Age Quality).

                              As a recent poster pointed out, the Vampire Quality doesn't really
                              make a better spellcaster, just most likely a tougher one to take out
                              (unless you expose them to a little sunlight or holy water that is).

                              Following on from that poster it is hard to make a judgement without
                              knowing more.


                              Cheers
                              Rowan P. C. Tritton / LSWSjr
                              The Aussie UniSystem Addict
                            • Dale C. Blessing
                              RUN!!! Dale ... Cheers, Dale http://www.angelfire.com/pq/pineappleleader/ ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 29, 2007
                                RUN!!!


                                Dale

                                --- timothy.brannan@... wrote:

                                > Ok.
                                >
                                > Just to be difficult.
                                > Let's say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was
                                > vamped. Then what?
                                >
                                >
                                > Tim
                                >
                                > Timothy S. Brannan
                                > timothy.brannan@...
                                >
                                > Sent via my Treo 755 Smartphone
                                >
                                >


                                Cheers,
                                Dale
                                http://www.angelfire.com/pq/pineappleleader/


                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                                Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
                              • Foebane
                                If someone wanted to be an uber spellcaster they could easily come up with some sort of demon that covers all the main stats in casting. ... From: Rowan P. C.
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 30, 2007
                                  If someone wanted to be an uber spellcaster they could easily come up with some sort of demon that covers all the main stats in casting.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Rowan P. C. Tritton
                                  To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:10 PM
                                  Subject: [btvsrpg-eden] Re: Witch and vampire?


                                  Let's say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was vamped. Then what?

                                  -Timothy S. Brannan

                                  Well it would be like vampires who suffer injuries (mental or
                                  physical) prior to being turned, chances are it'll be business as
                                  usual.

                                  Warlocks and Witches of the Whedonverse are generally born not made
                                  (unless you get possessed by powerful gypsy mojo to carry out the
                                  recursing of a vampire or something), generally all those who
                                  otherwise cast spells in the lack the same level of power.

                                  Jonathan for example is not a Warlock, nor is Angel or Spike, nor
                                  Giles or Xander or Oz or Andrew or Dawn. They have all used the mojo
                                  but none of them are what we'd consider Warlocks/Witches.

                                  It could be assumed that because the status of being a Warlock/Witch
                                  is generally inborn, it would be safe to have a Vampire Witch as long
                                  as they have magic in the family tree.

                                  Although vampires generally aren't known for personal development
                                  (having forever to get around to things being the main cause), I
                                  wouln't expect a Vampire Witch to have gained or gain a lot of power
                                  post turning unless they have a fair few years under their belt
                                  (possibly even the Age Quality).

                                  As a recent poster pointed out, the Vampire Quality doesn't really
                                  make a better spellcaster, just most likely a tougher one to take out
                                  (unless you expose them to a little sunlight or holy water that is).

                                  Following on from that poster it is hard to make a judgement without
                                  knowing more.

                                  Cheers
                                  Rowan P. C. Tritton / LSWSjr
                                  The Aussie UniSystem Addict





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • entilxa2
                                  OK Let me introduce myself . I am French from Paris suburbs -you ll have to forgive me about that ;)- I have all Buffy RPG rulebooks and reread them many
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 2, 2007
                                    OK Let me introduce myself .
                                    I am French from Paris suburbs -you'll have to forgive me about
                                    that ;)- I have all Buffy RPG rulebooks and reread them many times.
                                    (Don't anyone find that the style of those books is awesome ???). I
                                    may add that my real first name is Gilles and thus I was destined to
                                    be a Buffy fan.I read the Magic box before answering this topic.I've
                                    been hmmm watching this group for some time now.
                                    So no rule can prevent a vampire to be a witch. The entire second
                                    part of the second season revolves around castin a uber spell
                                    (raising Hell... I mean Acathla). But the thing is: being half a
                                    demon vampire have more stamina than living people. And all magic
                                    being rooted in demons in the Buffyverse the Vampires know how
                                    whimsical it is. It may not prevent them from using it to cause
                                    chaos and mayhem here and there and that can be useful in the game.
                                    I leave it to any Drector to decide which power is the greatest (the
                                    living or Death). My own point of view is that the House -I mean the
                                    Demon- always wins but hey a little magic from a covenant and Willow
                                    can listen to Xander so it is totally up to you.
                                    Furthermore blood magic can be one ofthe most powerful magic in the
                                    world. Look how powerful blood is in a Vampire!
                                    So yes A vampire witch or wizard is technically possible but you
                                    have to decide what it his style as any Mage (summoning, psychic
                                    powers telekinesis and so on) and why he is still a mage. Is there
                                    any quest that the mage is having? How did he turn to a vampire?
                                    A few ideas:
                                    A summoning spell went kinda wrong (which spell doesn't anyway?) and
                                    the caster wants to try and find a magical cure to vampirism... That
                                    just an idea. Or that he enjoys being a vampire being a blood mage
                                    before being Sired and that the transformation just took him another
                                    step in his study.
                                    Other plot options can of course be found...
                                    I totally agree that nothing in the rules makes it easier to cast a
                                    spell being a vampire and it should but hey who's to say that some
                                    hard to kill levels aren't helpful when Hell breaks loose... But
                                    anyone with the right book can cast a spell the Buffyverse (ok
                                    people don't always choose Sumerian as their second language...).
                                    Kind regards
                                    Giles

                                    --- In btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com, "Foebane" <foebane100@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > If someone wanted to be an uber spellcaster they could easily come
                                    up with some sort of demon that covers all the main stats in casting.
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Rowan P. C. Tritton
                                    > To: btvsrpg-eden@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:10 PM
                                    > Subject: [btvsrpg-eden] Re: Witch and vampire?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Let's say a high powered witch (sorcery 7+) was vamped. Then
                                    what?
                                    >
                                    > -Timothy S. Brannan
                                    >
                                    > Well it would be like vampires who suffer injuries (mental or
                                    > physical) prior to being turned, chances are it'll be business
                                    as
                                    > usual.
                                    >
                                    > Warlocks and Witches of the Whedonverse are generally born not
                                    made
                                    > (unless you get possessed by powerful gypsy mojo to carry out
                                    the
                                    > recursing of a vampire or something), generally all those who
                                    > otherwise cast spells in the lack the same level of power.
                                    >
                                    > Jonathan for example is not a Warlock, nor is Angel or Spike,
                                    nor
                                    > Giles or Xander or Oz or Andrew or Dawn. They have all used the
                                    mojo
                                    > but none of them are what we'd consider Warlocks/Witches.
                                    >
                                    > It could be assumed that because the status of being a
                                    Warlock/Witch
                                    > is generally inborn, it would be safe to have a Vampire Witch as
                                    long
                                    > as they have magic in the family tree.
                                    >
                                    > Although vampires generally aren't known for personal
                                    development
                                    > (having forever to get around to things being the main cause), I
                                    > wouln't expect a Vampire Witch to have gained or gain a lot of
                                    power
                                    > post turning unless they have a fair few years under their belt
                                    > (possibly even the Age Quality).
                                    >
                                    > As a recent poster pointed out, the Vampire Quality doesn't
                                    really
                                    > make a better spellcaster, just most likely a tougher one to
                                    take out
                                    > (unless you expose them to a little sunlight or holy water that
                                    is).
                                    >
                                    > Following on from that poster it is hard to make a judgement
                                    without
                                    > knowing more.
                                    >
                                    > Cheers
                                    > Rowan P. C. Tritton / LSWSjr
                                    > The Aussie UniSystem Addict
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
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