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RE: Car free London?

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  • Dan Minettte
    ... I thought it would be obvious...trips that require several transfers. Let me give you a specific example from the western part of London. I ll use street
    Message 1 of 139 , Oct 2, 2007
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: brin-l-bounces@... [mailto:brin-l-bounces@...]
      > On Behalf Of Charlie Bell
      > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:25 AM
      > To: Killer Bs Discussion
      > Subject: Re: Car free London?
      >
      >
      > On 30/09/2007, at 8:50 PM, Gary Nunn wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Holy Cow!!
      > >
      > > I make a post and step away for a few weeks and find this topic ran
      > > rampant
      > > - and I missed it!
      >
      >
      > Yep. I'm still wondering what bits of London are 20 mins apart by car
      > and hours apart by public transport (apart from at 3am, at which time
      > most of London is 20 mins by car and unreachable at all by public
      > transport...).

      I thought it would be obvious...trips that require several transfers. Let
      me give you a specific example from the western part of London. I'll use
      street corners because I don't have addresses....I took a while in answering
      because I knew that I'd have to prove it with a specific example...and it
      wasn't trivial for me to do the bus routes, schedules, etc...and be sure I
      stay within London proper with my example.

      Anyways, the example is Exmouth Rd. and Appledore Ave to Balmoral and
      Waverly and back on a Sunday afternoon....about 4 miles each way. It takes
      several changes of bus on each end, plus about a half mile walk each side.
      I am not _that_ familiar with London traffic, but my memory is that it's not
      terrible on the weekends, except for special occasions. So, 20 minutes for
      the 8 mile round trip by car sounds reasonable by me....but it might take
      30.

      As far as I can see, several busses would have to be taken each way. Adding
      the time it takes to wait, along with the added time to take the bus routes
      (with stops) instead of the direct routes, that would be 40-60 minutes each
      way...nearest bus stop to nearest bus stop. Including the time it takes to
      walk a total of two miles, for someone who is not walking briskly...say 20
      minute miles), and that gives us 2 hours to 2 hours 40 minutes for the trip.


      FWIW, the frequency of the outlying busses was a bit more than I would have
      guessed.

      Dan M.


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    • Charlie Bell
      On 03/10/2007, at 11:07 AM, Dan Minettte wrote: u ... Maybe, but I m having trouble thinking of real-world examples within inner or outer London, and certainly
      Message 139 of 139 , Oct 3, 2007
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        On 03/10/2007, at 11:07 AM, Dan Minettte wrote:
        u
        >>
        >> Yep. I'm still wondering what bits of London are 20 mins apart by car
        >> and hours apart by public transport (apart from at 3am, at which time
        >> most of London is 20 mins by car and unreachable at all by public
        >> transport...).
        >
        > I thought it would be obvious...trips that require several transfers.

        Maybe, but I'm having trouble thinking of real-world examples within
        inner or outer London, and certainly had no trouble getting from
        Hammersmith to Acton or whatever (which is radial...). Took an hour
        on the bus instead of 40 mins in the car.
        >
        > Anyways, the example is Exmouth Rd. and Appledore Ave to Balmoral and
        > Waverly and back on a Sunday afternoon....

        I like the way you sneak the "and back" in there, as I was figuring
        on two places 20 mins apart, not two place 20 mins there and back,
        which obviously changes things drastically by adding extra waiting
        time for the turnaround, along with specifying Sunday when traffic is
        at its best and public transport on its worst day (and people would
        be making different sorts of journey to a weekday).

        Also, not giving the proper road names - "Balmoral and Waverly" means
        *nothing* to a Brit - and no suburbs makes it way harder than it
        needed to for me to look. There are over 30 streets called Balmoral
        something inside the M25 London Orbital. There are none called
        Waverly something. There are 40-ish called "Waverley" something. In
        fact, I can't find where there are two roads intersecting called
        those things, and I've looked. I found the junction of "Exmouth and
        Appledore" at http://tinyurl.com/3xoy4y but the other one eludes me.

        You're also talking "Greater London", which is out beyond "outer
        London" as referred to in the original article. Places like Harrow,
        Kingston and Ruislip aren't considered London proper (they don't have
        London postcodes).

        This is called "stacking the deck"...


        >
        > FWIW, the frequency of the outlying busses was a bit more than I
        > would have
        > guessed.

        It's pretty good in the UK. And, as I pointed out, any limitation on
        private transport would lead to an increase in routes and frequency
        of public transport.

        If you actually point out where you were talking about (try a google
        maps pointer) and I'll check your work against the public transport
        route finder...

        Charlie.
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