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Re: Car free London?

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  • Ronn! Blankenship
    ... I don t know about London, but most cities I have lived in in the U.S. are like that if the two points are both on the edge of the city proper, as the only
    Message 1 of 139 , Oct 2, 2007
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      At 09:25 AM Tuesday 10/2/2007, Charlie Bell wrote:

      >On 30/09/2007, at 8:50 PM, Gary Nunn wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > Holy Cow!!
      > >
      > > I make a post and step away for a few weeks and find this topic ran
      > > rampant
      > > - and I missed it!
      >
      >
      >Yep. I'm still wondering what bits of London are 20 mins apart by car
      >and hours apart by public transport



      I don't know about London, but most cities I have lived in in the
      U.S. are like that if the two points are both on the edge of the city
      proper, as the only bus routes or other public transportation
      available tends to run more or less radially from the downtown
      terminal, so to get from one point on the edge of the city (e.g.,
      your house) to another relatively nearby on the edge of the city
      (e.g., your place of employment or in some cases the nearest shopping
      center), rather than going directly there which would be a 20-minute
      drive you must board the bus which comes closest to your house, ride
      all the way to the terminal downtown (taking the better part of an
      hour), wait perhaps the better part of another hour for the next bus
      on the route which passes closest to your destination, then when
      (sometimes "if") it finally arrives at the terminal ride it for the
      better part of another hour until you reach the stop closest to your
      destination. Total time one way from your house to your destination:
      2 to 3 hours, compared with 20 minutes if you drove there directly,
      even with traffic. Then there are the places which you may need to
      go which are basically unreachable by bus or other public
      transportation since the nearest any bus route comes to that part of
      town is at least 3-4 miles or more from the place you need to go
      (probably an hour's walk or more in good weather for a person in good
      health who does not have anything to carry, in many cases perhaps at
      least in part along a busy road which has no sidewalks. Yes,
      hypothetically you could take along a bicycle but at least here
      according to the policies sometimes printed on bus schedules and
      posted at the terminal and inside buses bicycles must be loaded on to
      a rack on the outside of the bus and the rack has only room for one
      bicycle and the driver does not even have to stop for you if s/he
      sees that you have a bicycle and there is already another passenger's
      bicycle in the rack. I don't know if you are allowed to take a
      Segway onto the bus, but even if you are for $5K you can probably get
      a used car which in most cases would be a much better use of the
      money than getting a Segway to get to and from the bus stop).



      > (apart from at 3am, at which time
      >most of London is 20 mins by car and unreachable at all by public
      >transport...).



      In lots of the places I have lived many of the bus routes stop
      running around 6 pm (they are designed to get people who work 8 or 9
      to 5 downtown to and from their homes in residential areas toward the
      edge of the city) and the rest have their last run between 9 and 10
      pm, so if you work different hours you are out of luck.


      Apologies For The Repetition Maru


      -- Ronn! :)



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    • Charlie Bell
      On 03/10/2007, at 11:07 AM, Dan Minettte wrote: u ... Maybe, but I m having trouble thinking of real-world examples within inner or outer London, and certainly
      Message 139 of 139 , Oct 3, 2007
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        On 03/10/2007, at 11:07 AM, Dan Minettte wrote:
        u
        >>
        >> Yep. I'm still wondering what bits of London are 20 mins apart by car
        >> and hours apart by public transport (apart from at 3am, at which time
        >> most of London is 20 mins by car and unreachable at all by public
        >> transport...).
        >
        > I thought it would be obvious...trips that require several transfers.

        Maybe, but I'm having trouble thinking of real-world examples within
        inner or outer London, and certainly had no trouble getting from
        Hammersmith to Acton or whatever (which is radial...). Took an hour
        on the bus instead of 40 mins in the car.
        >
        > Anyways, the example is Exmouth Rd. and Appledore Ave to Balmoral and
        > Waverly and back on a Sunday afternoon....

        I like the way you sneak the "and back" in there, as I was figuring
        on two places 20 mins apart, not two place 20 mins there and back,
        which obviously changes things drastically by adding extra waiting
        time for the turnaround, along with specifying Sunday when traffic is
        at its best and public transport on its worst day (and people would
        be making different sorts of journey to a weekday).

        Also, not giving the proper road names - "Balmoral and Waverly" means
        *nothing* to a Brit - and no suburbs makes it way harder than it
        needed to for me to look. There are over 30 streets called Balmoral
        something inside the M25 London Orbital. There are none called
        Waverly something. There are 40-ish called "Waverley" something. In
        fact, I can't find where there are two roads intersecting called
        those things, and I've looked. I found the junction of "Exmouth and
        Appledore" at http://tinyurl.com/3xoy4y but the other one eludes me.

        You're also talking "Greater London", which is out beyond "outer
        London" as referred to in the original article. Places like Harrow,
        Kingston and Ruislip aren't considered London proper (they don't have
        London postcodes).

        This is called "stacking the deck"...


        >
        > FWIW, the frequency of the outlying busses was a bit more than I
        > would have
        > guessed.

        It's pretty good in the UK. And, as I pointed out, any limitation on
        private transport would lead to an increase in routes and frequency
        of public transport.

        If you actually point out where you were talking about (try a google
        maps pointer) and I'll check your work against the public transport
        route finder...

        Charlie.
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