Re: Car free London?
- At 09:25 AM Tuesday 10/2/2007, Charlie Bell wrote:
>On 30/09/2007, at 8:50 PM, Gary Nunn wrote:I don't know about London, but most cities I have lived in in the
> > Holy Cow!!
> > I make a post and step away for a few weeks and find this topic ran
> > rampant
> > - and I missed it!
>Yep. I'm still wondering what bits of London are 20 mins apart by car
>and hours apart by public transport
U.S. are like that if the two points are both on the edge of the city
proper, as the only bus routes or other public transportation
available tends to run more or less radially from the downtown
terminal, so to get from one point on the edge of the city (e.g.,
your house) to another relatively nearby on the edge of the city
(e.g., your place of employment or in some cases the nearest shopping
center), rather than going directly there which would be a 20-minute
drive you must board the bus which comes closest to your house, ride
all the way to the terminal downtown (taking the better part of an
hour), wait perhaps the better part of another hour for the next bus
on the route which passes closest to your destination, then when
(sometimes "if") it finally arrives at the terminal ride it for the
better part of another hour until you reach the stop closest to your
destination. Total time one way from your house to your destination:
2 to 3 hours, compared with 20 minutes if you drove there directly,
even with traffic. Then there are the places which you may need to
go which are basically unreachable by bus or other public
transportation since the nearest any bus route comes to that part of
town is at least 3-4 miles or more from the place you need to go
(probably an hour's walk or more in good weather for a person in good
health who does not have anything to carry, in many cases perhaps at
least in part along a busy road which has no sidewalks. Yes,
hypothetically you could take along a bicycle but at least here
according to the policies sometimes printed on bus schedules and
posted at the terminal and inside buses bicycles must be loaded on to
a rack on the outside of the bus and the rack has only room for one
bicycle and the driver does not even have to stop for you if s/he
sees that you have a bicycle and there is already another passenger's
bicycle in the rack. I don't know if you are allowed to take a
Segway onto the bus, but even if you are for $5K you can probably get
a used car which in most cases would be a much better use of the
money than getting a Segway to get to and from the bus stop).
> (apart from at 3am, at which timeIn lots of the places I have lived many of the bus routes stop
>most of London is 20 mins by car and unreachable at all by public
running around 6 pm (they are designed to get people who work 8 or 9
to 5 downtown to and from their homes in residential areas toward the
edge of the city) and the rest have their last run between 9 and 10
pm, so if you work different hours you are out of luck.
Apologies For The Repetition Maru
-- Ronn! :)
On 03/10/2007, at 11:07 AM, Dan Minettte wrote:
>> Yep. I'm still wondering what bits of London are 20 mins apart by car
>> and hours apart by public transport (apart from at 3am, at which time
>> most of London is 20 mins by car and unreachable at all by public
> I thought it would be obvious...trips that require several transfers.
Maybe, but I'm having trouble thinking of real-world examples within
inner or outer London, and certainly had no trouble getting from
Hammersmith to Acton or whatever (which is radial...). Took an hour
on the bus instead of 40 mins in the car.
> Anyways, the example is Exmouth Rd. and Appledore Ave to Balmoral and
> Waverly and back on a Sunday afternoon....
I like the way you sneak the "and back" in there, as I was figuring
on two places 20 mins apart, not two place 20 mins there and back,
which obviously changes things drastically by adding extra waiting
time for the turnaround, along with specifying Sunday when traffic is
at its best and public transport on its worst day (and people would
be making different sorts of journey to a weekday).
Also, not giving the proper road names - "Balmoral and Waverly" means
*nothing* to a Brit - and no suburbs makes it way harder than it
needed to for me to look. There are over 30 streets called Balmoral
something inside the M25 London Orbital. There are none called
Waverly something. There are 40-ish called "Waverley" something. In
fact, I can't find where there are two roads intersecting called
those things, and I've looked. I found the junction of "Exmouth and
Appledore" at http://tinyurl.com/3xoy4y but the other one eludes me.
You're also talking "Greater London", which is out beyond "outer
London" as referred to in the original article. Places like Harrow,
Kingston and Ruislip aren't considered London proper (they don't have
This is called "stacking the deck"...
> FWIW, the frequency of the outlying busses was a bit more than I
> would have
It's pretty good in the UK. And, as I pointed out, any limitation on
private transport would lead to an increase in routes and frequency
of public transport.
If you actually point out where you were talking about (try a google
maps pointer) and I'll check your work against the public transport