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Re: PC Software - prices high, little choice

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  • Andrew Crystall
    ... And in my experience, I do not know a SINGLE Mac user who has that attitude. WTG is a poster child for the I can t read, it s my dogma Mac user, IME. (I
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
      On 2 Oct 2006 at 21:33, Richard Baker wrote:

      > Andrew said:
      >
      > > To you, maybe. To put it another way, I take a very engineering view,
      > > rather than a scientific one to technology.
      >
      > Well, that sounds like the sort of attitude that Mac people I know
      > take.

      And in my experience, I do not know a SINGLE Mac user who has that
      attitude. WTG is a poster child for the "I can't read, it's my dogma"
      Mac user, IME. (I note he still hasn't addressed ONE actual point of
      the article I linked, he's done PURE ad hominen attacks based on the
      personality of the author without having a clue who he is)

      > OS X, for example, has the advantage over Windows that it's
      > actually been properly engineered.

      Betamax was "properly engineered" compared to VHS. Your point?

      > release dates until it appears to more or less work. Apple, on the
      > other hand, seem to go out of their way to constantly improve their
      > software designs (and I'm clearly not just talking about externally

      ...by hiding the security flaws. Sorry, that doesn't wash.

      Every single contact I've ever had with the Mac community has been
      fanatically hostile (as opposed to the almost pathological
      helpfulness of the Linux community, for example).

      Add in the inability to run the vast majority of the apps I use on a
      daily basis and the requirement to purchase expensive hardware and I
      see no point whatsoever in considering a Mac, or to have patience
      with the constant chest-beating certain people do about them.

      2000AD Developments has 250+ employees. 4 use Mac's - for DTP. All
      the rest use PC's. Niche market.

      AndrewC
      Dawn Falcon

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    • William T Goodall
      ... I. Did. Read. The. Linked. Article. It says nothing at all about Macs being added to botnets or even actually being hacked. Which is what you wrote had
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
        On 2 Oct 2006, at 10:56PM, Andrew Crystall wrote:

        > On 2 Oct 2006 at 21:29, William T Goodall wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> On 2 Oct 2006, at 7:16PM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
        >>
        >>> On 2 Oct 2006 at 17:57, William T Goodall wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> Over 250000 Windows PCs *every day* are hacked and added to
        >>>> botnets.
        >>>> That's 250000 a day more than OS X Macs.
        >>>
        >>> Your figure of 0 for Mac's has been debunked over and over and over.
        >>
        >> Cite and cite and cite then.
        >
        > Read. The. Linked. Article.
        >

        I. Did. Read. The. Linked. Article.

        It says nothing at all about Macs being added to botnets or even
        actually being hacked. Which is what you wrote had been debunked and
        which I asked you to cite. It does have a load of fud and distortions
        about theoretical security holes in OS X **none of which has ever
        been exploited in the real world** and all of which have been patched
        anyway.

        There is a difference between a theoretical vulnerability and an
        actual attack you know. About 250000 hacked PCs a day's difference...

        --
        William T Goodall
        Mail : wtg@...
        Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
        Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

        "Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire
        and he will be warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett


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      • William T Goodall
        ... The author has no point, and from this I deduced that he is an idiot. What more do I need to know? Simple Maru -- William T Goodall Mail :
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
          On 2 Oct 2006, at 11:08PM, Andrew Crystall wrote:

          > On 2 Oct 2006 at 21:33, Richard Baker wrote:
          >
          >> Andrew said:
          >>
          >>> To you, maybe. To put it another way, I take a very engineering
          >>> view,
          >>> rather than a scientific one to technology.
          >>
          >> Well, that sounds like the sort of attitude that Mac people I know
          >> take.
          >
          > And in my experience, I do not know a SINGLE Mac user who has that
          > attitude. WTG is a poster child for the "I can't read, it's my dogma"
          > Mac user, IME. (I note he still hasn't addressed ONE actual point of
          > the article I linked, he's done PURE ad hominen attacks based on the
          > personality of the author without having a clue who he is)


          The author has no point, and from this I deduced that he is an idiot.
          What more do I need to know?

          Simple Maru
          --
          William T Goodall
          Mail : wtg@...
          Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
          Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

          "It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run
          out of things they can do with UNIX." - Ken Olsen, President of DEC,
          1984.


          _______________________________________________
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        • Robert Seeberger
          ... From: Richard Baker To: Killer Bs Discussion Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: Re: PC
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Richard Baker" <rich@...>
            To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <brin-l@...>
            Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 3:33 PM
            Subject: Re: PC Software - prices high, little choice


            > Andrew said:
            >
            >> To you, maybe. To put it another way, I take a very engineering
            >> view,
            >> rather than a scientific one to technology.
            >
            > Well, that sounds like the sort of attitude that Mac people I know
            > take. OS X, for example, has the advantage over Windows that it's
            > actually been properly engineered. Until Vista, even Microsoft
            > didn't have any idea about the dependencies between pieces of
            > Windows code and by their own admission were utterly appalled when
            > they tried to map those dependencies(*). Software engineering is
            > something that seems foreign to Microsoft - it appears that they
            > solve problems by throwing large numbers of developers at a problem
            > and slipping release dates until it appears to more or less work.
            > Apple, on the other hand, seem to go out of their way to constantly
            > improve their software designs (and I'm clearly not just talking
            > about externally visible things like user interfaces).
            >

            I'm beta-testing Vista [Ultimate] RC1.
            As of last week it was buggy and problem ridden. All my media players
            (basically anything that could play a video or music file) were
            broken. None of the games worked. For the most part any program that
            was a problem would start and then crash which initiated a slightly
            time consuming reporting program. I even saw about a half second of a
            BSOD before an out-of-the-blue reboot (pun intended).
            I was chatting to William last week in the chatroom about Vista and
            the problems I saw, and he suggested a nifty program for viewing vid
            files that seemed to work, but when I tried to watch a movie the sound
            failed.
            Lots of problems initially.

            Last Friday when I got home everything (with one exception I address
            below) in Vista (that I had had problems with or have so far looked
            at) was working perfectly. Media files played without glitches of any
            kind and the games all worked just fine. An update during the early
            afternoon had fixed every problem I had encountered
            The games I speak of are the games MS provides, you know.....Freecell,
            Spider Solitaire and the like. The games are updated and very pretty.
            A really nice addition is the new chess program. I'm not a good chess
            player and I only won 1 of the three games I played (and that game was
            grueling and hard fought for me), but a player with better skills than
            mine will likely find it suitable for quick pick-up games and its
            inclusion is likely to increase the popularity of chess for the
            average home users who would balk at purchasing a chess program. There
            is also a very nice MahJong game included and I can hardly win on the
            easier of the 6 boards provided.

            Vista's networking is greatly improved over XP and I look forward to
            some upcoming helper programs MS is providing in the next few months.
            Security has improved slightly it seems, but only time can falsify
            that.

            My only serious gripe is that Vista broke Windows One Care and that
            was a program I depended on. MS was nice enough to provide users with
            suitable (and free) substitutes for the time being til the issues are
            addressed, but I like WOC and want it back working on my PC.

            Outlook Express is dead. It is replaced by Microsoft Windows Mail and
            is much more like Outlook than the old Express version. (Matter of
            fact, let me know how my emails are received by your mail program. I'm
            interested in knowing if the parsing is improved over Outlook Express)

            Visually, Vista is full of surprises. It is set up to be more fully
            "themeable" and some of the tricks like fading transparent windows
            that flip as they close are as beautiful as they are useless. I'm sure
            you will be glad to know that there are no animated dogs, pieces of
            paper or paperclips to bug the crap out of you. This time they went
            more for functional than cute.
            One of the neater doodads seen in Vista is when you mouse-over an item
            in the taskbar a small window that fully reiterates the referred to
            window appears. So if you have a movie playing in a window that is
            reduced to the taskbar, you can actually watch the movie in the small
            box that appears. It is fairly handy when doing several things at
            once.

            Vista has some fairly hefty requirements. You need a GB or more of
            memory and a moderately new video card is required. I have a Geoforce
            FX 5200 with 128 megs of memory and it is just barely enough to do
            what Vista wants it to do. My 1 GB of memory is adequate, but I expect
            that 2 GB would be an improvement.
            My P4 3.2 Ghz is more than adequate.
            I expect that a dual core processor with 2 GB of memory and a nice vid
            card with 512 MB of onboard memory will make Vista scream with
            pleasure.

            So far, after the initial crapola bugs were fixed, Vista seems to be a
            great improvement over XP. If I get a chance to get the RTM version,
            I'll let you know if there are any changes for better or worse.


            xponent
            All Betaed Out Maru
            rob


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          • Andrew Crystall
            ... Well, I use Pegasus Mail and they still occasionally throw something strange (usually in line spacing). I m going to keep using Pegasus, as long as they
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
              On 2 Oct 2006 at 18:01, Robert Seeberger wrote:

              > Outlook Express is dead. It is replaced by Microsoft Windows Mail and
              > is much more like Outlook than the old Express version. (Matter of
              > fact, let me know how my emails are received by your mail program. I'm
              > interested in knowing if the parsing is improved over Outlook Express)

              Well, I use Pegasus Mail and they still occasionally throw something
              strange (usually in line spacing). I'm going to keep using Pegasus,
              as long as they keep adding features like the lastest - a CLIENT side
              Baesian filter), plus an internal HTML rendering engine which doesn't
              suffer the security issues Microsoft's renderer does.

              > Visually, Vista is full of surprises. It is set up to be more fully
              > "themeable" and some of the tricks like fading transparent windows
              > that flip as they close are as beautiful as they are useless. I'm sure

              Yea. And for that they're demanding a much higher base spec, and
              disabling the desktop in games. I'd rather have a "classic" desktop.

              > I expect that a dual core processor with 2 GB of memory and a nice vid
              > card with 512 MB of onboard memory will make Vista scream with
              > pleasure.

              That's what I'd expect for high settings in a modern GAME. Not an OS.

              And don't get me started on DX10. I'm not interested in the gimmicks
              they're throwing out, I want an upgrade to Windows 2000.

              AndrewC
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            • William T Goodall
              ... OS X has had a bundled chess program for years (GNU Chess). [...] ... OS X has had this feature in dock icons for years. My Sig Maru -- William T Goodall
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                On 3 Oct 2006, at 12:01AM, Robert Seeberger wrote:

                >
                > A really nice addition is the new chess program.

                OS X has had a bundled chess program for years (GNU Chess).

                [...]

                > One of the neater doodads seen in Vista is when you mouse-over an item
                > in the taskbar a small window that fully reiterates the referred to
                > window appears. So if you have a movie playing in a window that is
                > reduced to the taskbar, you can actually watch the movie in the small
                > box that appears. It is fairly handy when doing several things at
                > once.

                OS X has had this feature in dock icons for years.

                My Sig Maru
                --
                William T Goodall
                Mail : wtg@...
                Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
                Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

                "[Microsoft’s Windows Vista] Beta 2 is a good looking operating
                system with a number of new features, which will be familiar to you
                if you’ve played with recent versions of Apple’s OS X." - Gary
                Krakow, Columnist, MSNBC



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              • Charlie Bell
                ... Really? *Every Single Contact Ever*? Seems to me you re using hyperbole as much as Will (and yet again you re chomping his rather obvious bait...). Charlie
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                  On 03/10/2006, at 8:08 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
                  >
                  > Every single contact I've ever had with the Mac community has been
                  > fanatically hostile (as opposed to the almost pathological
                  > helpfulness of the Linux community, for example).

                  Really? *Every Single Contact Ever*? Seems to me you're using
                  hyperbole as much as Will (and yet again you're chomping his rather
                  obvious bait...).

                  Charlie
                  iBook G4
                  Athlon 2200XP (XP SP2, Ubuntu)
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                • Charlie Bell
                  ... Looks fine in Mail.app on OS 10.4.8. ... Have you installed Office 2007 yet? ;-) Charlie _______________________________________________
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                    On 03/10/2006, at 9:01 AM, Robert Seeberger wrote:

                    >
                    > Outlook Express is dead. It is replaced by Microsoft Windows Mail and
                    > is much more like Outlook than the old Express version. (Matter of
                    > fact, let me know how my emails are received by your mail program. I'm
                    > interested in knowing if the parsing is improved over Outlook Express)

                    Looks fine in Mail.app on OS 10.4.8.

                    >
                    > Visually, Vista is full of surprises. It is set up to be more fully
                    > "themeable" and some of the tricks like fading transparent windows
                    > that flip as they close are as beautiful as they are useless. I'm sure
                    > you will be glad to know that there are no animated dogs, pieces of
                    > paper or paperclips to bug the crap out of you.

                    Have you installed Office 2007 yet? ;-)

                    Charlie
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                  • Andrew Crystall
                    ... Yep. even the 2000AD publisher guys at work (with said Mac s) go all fanatic if you start talking tech stuff. Soon as the tech talk starts, the frothing
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                      On 3 Oct 2006 at 9:54, Charlie Bell wrote:

                      >
                      > On 03/10/2006, at 8:08 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Every single contact I've ever had with the Mac community has been
                      > > fanatically hostile (as opposed to the almost pathological
                      > > helpfulness of the Linux community, for example).
                      >
                      > Really? *Every Single Contact Ever*? Seems to me you're using
                      > hyperbole as much as Will (and yet again you're chomping his rather
                      > obvious bait...).

                      Yep. even the 2000AD publisher guys at work (with said Mac's) go all
                      fanatic if you start talking tech stuff. Soon as the tech talk
                      starts, the frothing begins.

                      AndrewC
                      Dawn Falcon

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                    • Charlie Bell
                      ... Oh. So I ve been fanatically hostile on this subject. Uh-huh. Seems to me it takes two to tango, and if one person ain t dancing, both ain t dancing.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                        On 03/10/2006, at 10:00 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:

                        > On 3 Oct 2006 at 9:54, Charlie Bell wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> On 03/10/2006, at 8:08 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>> Every single contact I've ever had with the Mac community has been
                        >>> fanatically hostile (as opposed to the almost pathological
                        >>> helpfulness of the Linux community, for example).
                        >>
                        >> Really? *Every Single Contact Ever*? Seems to me you're using
                        >> hyperbole as much as Will (and yet again you're chomping his rather
                        >> obvious bait...).
                        >
                        > Yep. even the 2000AD publisher guys at work (with said Mac's) go all
                        > fanatic if you start talking tech stuff. Soon as the tech talk
                        > starts, the frothing begins.

                        Oh. So I've been "fanatically hostile" on this subject. Uh-huh.

                        Seems to me it takes two to tango, and if one person ain't dancing,
                        both ain't dancing.

                        Charlie
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                      • William T Goodall
                        ... *Nobody* in the *entire universe* uses hyperbole as much as me! ... Oo er Mrs Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : wtg@wtgab.demon.co.uk Web :
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                          On 3 Oct 2006, at 12:54AM, Charlie Bell wrote:

                          >
                          > On 03/10/2006, at 8:08 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Every single contact I've ever had with the Mac community has been
                          >> fanatically hostile (as opposed to the almost pathological
                          >> helpfulness of the Linux community, for example).
                          >
                          > Really? *Every Single Contact Ever*? Seems to me you're using
                          > hyperbole as much as Will

                          *Nobody* in the *entire universe* uses hyperbole as much as me!

                          > (and yet again you're chomping his rather obvious bait...).
                          >

                          Oo er Mrs Maru

                          --
                          William T Goodall
                          Mail : wtg@...
                          Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
                          Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

                          What's the difference between OS X and Vista?

                          Microsoft employees are excited about OS X...


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                        • Robert Seeberger
                          ... From: Andrew Crystall To: Killer Bs Discussion Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: PC
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Andrew Crystall" <dawnfalcon@...>
                            To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <brin-l@...>
                            Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:15 PM
                            Subject: Re: PC Software - prices high, little choice


                            > On 2 Oct 2006 at 18:01, Robert Seeberger wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >> Visually, Vista is full of surprises. It is set up to be more fully
                            >> "themeable" and some of the tricks like fading transparent windows
                            >> that flip as they close are as beautiful as they are useless. I'm
                            >> sure
                            >
                            > Yea. And for that they're demanding a much higher base spec, and
                            > disabling the desktop in games. I'd rather have a "classic" desktop.

                            Yeah......Vista can be dumbed down a bit to boost performance some. I
                            had to do that at first just to get over the initial bugginess of the
                            beta.
                            But the included games operate the same as in XP WRT the desktop.
                            Are you taking about something else?


                            >
                            >> I expect that a dual core processor with 2 GB of memory and a nice
                            >> vid
                            >> card with 512 MB of onboard memory will make Vista scream with
                            >> pleasure.
                            >
                            > That's what I'd expect for high settings in a modern GAME. Not an
                            > OS.

                            That is something William and I discussed. But the same thing was true
                            when XP was first Betaed out. To a greater or lesser degree this is
                            open to discussion at this point AFAIC. I could not say whether this
                            is a good or a bad thing.


                            >
                            > And don't get me started on DX10. I'm not interested in the gimmicks
                            > they're throwing out, I want an upgrade to Windows 2000.
                            >

                            DX10?
                            Whassat?
                            <G>Some of those features do strike me as a bit gimmicky. But at the
                            same time it is also an example of improved technical skill on the
                            part of the design team. Some of the features in Vista are quite
                            impressive.


                            xponent
                            Heroes Is On Tonight Maru
                            rob


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                          • Charlie Bell
                            ... OK, not *quite* as much as Will. ... I say bait , Will reads penis . Hmmm. Charlie Freudian Field Day Maru
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 2, 2006
                              On 03/10/2006, at 10:05 AM, William T Goodall wrote:

                              >
                              > On 3 Oct 2006, at 12:54AM, Charlie Bell wrote:
                              >
                              >>
                              >> On 03/10/2006, at 8:08 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>> Every single contact I've ever had with the Mac community has been
                              >>> fanatically hostile (as opposed to the almost pathological
                              >>> helpfulness of the Linux community, for example).
                              >>
                              >> Really? *Every Single Contact Ever*? Seems to me you're using
                              >> hyperbole as much as Will
                              >
                              > *Nobody* in the *entire universe* uses hyperbole as much as me!

                              OK, not *quite* as much as Will.
                              >
                              >> (and yet again you're chomping his rather obvious bait...).
                              >>
                              >
                              > Oo er Mrs Maru

                              I say "bait", Will reads "penis". Hmmm.

                              Charlie
                              Freudian Field Day Maru
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                            • dcaa@rcn.com
                              Coincidentially I got a release version of Vista yesterday, and was considering installing it (on mu XP it has been running buggy, crashing both Mozilla AND
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 3, 2006
                                Coincidentially I got a release version of Vista yesterday, and was considering installing it (on mu XP it has been running buggy, crashing both Mozilla AND Firefox, as well as a number of other eccentricies (Eudora stopped working FREX). May wait now...

                                Damon.
                                ------------------------------------------------------------
                                Damon Agretto
                                dcaa@...
                                "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."
                                http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html
                                Now Building: Trumpeter's Marder I auf GW 38(h)
                                Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.
                                ------------------------------------------------------------
                                Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: "Robert Seeberger" <rceeberger@...>
                                Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:01:56
                                To:"Killer Bs Discussion" <brin-l@...>
                                Subject: Re: PC Software - prices high, little choice


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Richard Baker" <rich@...>
                                To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <brin-l@...>
                                Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 3:33 PM
                                Subject: Re: PC Software - prices high, little choice


                                > Andrew said:
                                >
                                >> To you, maybe. To put it another way, I take a very engineering
                                >> view,
                                >> rather than a scientific one to technology.
                                >
                                > Well, that sounds like the sort of attitude that Mac people I know
                                > take. OS X, for example, has the advantage over Windows that it's
                                > actually been properly engineered. Until Vista, even Microsoft
                                > didn't have any idea about the dependencies between pieces of
                                > Windows code and by their own admission were utterly appalled when
                                > they tried to map those dependencies(*). Software engineering is
                                > something that seems foreign to Microsoft - it appears that they
                                > solve problems by throwing large numbers of developers at a problem
                                > and slipping release dates until it appears to more or less work.
                                > Apple, on the other hand, seem to go out of their way to constantly
                                > improve their software designs (and I'm clearly not just talking
                                > about externally visible things like user interfaces).
                                >

                                I'm beta-testing Vista [Ultimate] RC1.
                                As of last week it was buggy and problem ridden. All my media players
                                (basically anything that could play a video or music file) were
                                broken. None of the games worked. For the most part any program that
                                was a problem would start and then crash which initiated a slightly
                                time consuming reporting program. I even saw about a half second of a
                                BSOD before an out-of-the-blue reboot (pun intended).
                                I was chatting to William last week in the chatroom about Vista and
                                the problems I saw, and he suggested a nifty program for viewing vid
                                files that seemed to work, but when I tried to watch a movie the sound
                                failed.
                                Lots of problems initially.

                                Last Friday when I got home everything (with one exception I address
                                below) in Vista (that I had had problems with or have so far looked
                                at) was working perfectly. Media files played without glitches of any
                                kind and the games all worked just fine. An update during the early
                                afternoon had fixed every problem I had encountered
                                The games I speak of are the games MS provides, you know.....Freecell,
                                Spider Solitaire and the like. The games are updated and very pretty.
                                A really nice addition is the new chess program. I'm not a good chess
                                player and I only won 1 of the three games I played (and that game was
                                grueling and hard fought for me), but a player with better skills than
                                mine will likely find it suitable for quick pick-up games and its
                                inclusion is likely to increase the popularity of chess for the
                                average home users who would balk at purchasing a chess program. There
                                is also a very nice MahJong game included and I can hardly win on the
                                easier of the 6 boards provided.

                                Vista's networking is greatly improved over XP and I look forward to
                                some upcoming helper programs MS is providing in the next few months.
                                Security has improved slightly it seems, but only time can falsify
                                that.

                                My only serious gripe is that Vista broke Windows One Care and that
                                was a program I depended on. MS was nice enough to provide users with
                                suitable (and free) substitutes for the time being til the issues are
                                addressed, but I like WOC and want it back working on my PC.

                                Outlook Express is dead. It is replaced by Microsoft Windows Mail and
                                is much more like Outlook than the old Express version. (Matter of
                                fact, let me know how my emails are received by your mail program. I'm
                                interested in knowing if the parsing is improved over Outlook Express)

                                Visually, Vista is full of surprises. It is set up to be more fully
                                "themeable" and some of the tricks like fading transparent windows
                                that flip as they close are as beautiful as they are useless. I'm sure
                                you will be glad to know that there are no animated dogs, pieces of
                                paper or paperclips to bug the crap out of you. This time they went
                                more for functional than cute.
                                One of the neater doodads seen in Vista is when you mouse-over an item
                                in the taskbar a small window that fully reiterates the referred to
                                window appears. So if you have a movie playing in a window that is
                                reduced to the taskbar, you can actually watch the movie in the small
                                box that appears. It is fairly handy when doing several things at
                                once.

                                Vista has some fairly hefty requirements. You need a GB or more of
                                memory and a moderately new video card is required. I have a Geoforce
                                FX 5200 with 128 megs of memory and it is just barely enough to do
                                what Vista wants it to do. My 1 GB of memory is adequate, but I expect
                                that 2 GB would be an improvement.
                                My P4 3.2 Ghz is more than adequate.
                                I expect that a dual core processor with 2 GB of memory and a nice vid
                                card with 512 MB of onboard memory will make Vista scream with
                                pleasure.

                                So far, after the initial crapola bugs were fixed, Vista seems to be a
                                great improvement over XP. If I get a chance to get the RTM version,
                                I'll let you know if there are any changes for better or worse.


                                xponent
                                All Betaed Out Maru
                                rob


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                              • Nick Arnett
                                ... Something is obviously wrong with it. Your email contained words that made it sound as though Vista has good qualities. Surely that can t be right. ;-)
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 3, 2006
                                  On 10/2/06, Robert Seeberger <rceeberger@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Outlook Express is dead. It is replaced by Microsoft Windows Mail and
                                  > is much more like Outlook than the old Express version. (Matter of
                                  > fact, let me know how my emails are received by your mail program. I'm
                                  > interested in knowing if the parsing is improved over Outlook Express)


                                  Something is obviously wrong with it. Your email contained words that made
                                  it sound as though Vista has good qualities. Surely that can't be right.

                                  ;-)

                                  Nick

                                  --
                                  Nick Arnett
                                  narnett@...
                                  Messages: 408-904-7198
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                                • Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro
                                  ... Please stop it! I used to be the List-Jester, and I don t admit the concorrence :-/ Alberto Monteiro _______________________________________________
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 3, 2006
                                    Damon Agretto wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Coincidentially I got a release version of Vista yesterday, and was
                                    > considering installing it (on mu XP it has been running buggy, crashing
                                    > both Mozilla AND Firefox, as well as a number of other eccentricies (Eudora
                                    > stopped working FREX). May wait now...
                                    >
                                    Please stop it! I used to be the List-Jester, and I don't admit
                                    the concorrence :-/

                                    Alberto Monteiro
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