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Brin: ontogeny recapitulates pylogeny

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  • Leonard Matusik
    I found Brins piece for his 6/12 blogspot so very cool. It was on a RAND publication regarding netCulture. Firstly, *His* critcism of netCulture as the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 2, 2005
      I found Brins piece for his 6/12 blogspot so very cool. It was on a RAND publication regarding netCulture. Firstly, *His* critcism of netCulture as the pinicle of human becoming found a warm spot in my cold anarchist soul. ....*His* specultations on the possible divergencies of professionalism were the sort of thing I expected to see when I first applied to KillerBS. All in all ... At the risk of sounding like a total suck-up....................., it was really excellent work (for something posted on a blog). Does anyone know if *He* elablorated on it more anywhere else?


      One point in particulat got me thinking a bit.
      --- *He* said;
      >"................Douglas Adams's simplified version of Maslowe's Hierarchy of Needs, in which >each social-development is typified by a core question. (Survival: "How can we eat?" -> >Exploration: "Why do we eat?" -> decadence: "Where shall we go to have lunch?")

      >After seeing countless examples of such models, across 200 years, we may be forgiven a bit >of jaded cynicism toward their one common theme - a thread of tendentiousness. Moreover, >what most of these cyclical or trend models lacked was any attention paid to:

      >1* human predispositions inherited from a million years of hominid evolution,

      >2* additional drives that may have been reinforced by 4,000 of reproductive success by >feudal lords,

      >3* the notion of emergent properties -- e.g. what appears to be competition at one level (a >lion predating upon a gazelle) can be seen as cooperation at the next level of organization (the savannah ecosystem).

      >4* the notion of attractor states which will reliably pull groups of humans in, given certain kinds of circumstances.

      >5* the retention of earlier forms as later ones develop.

      >6* ways to test the theory with falsifiable experiments or pragmatic tools...................."


      Number 4* begged some clarification, so (..for better or worse) I started doing it myself.
      I began thinking how people tend to claim allegiences.. I'm chinese, I'm male, I'm for the RedSox, etc. .. and in doing so create a corporate entity.. a group of people who behave (somewhat) as an individual. Might these corporate entities then; go through developement stages, much like Eric Erikson elucidated for individuals....might they act and interact to form whole societies of avatars to who humans give allegience and hold up as *reality.theRealWorld* hmmm.. not sure what comes next..kinda thing..but it seems Buddha was right..hmmm...do they work/play together...hmmmmmmmmm...
      WELL, I could find little information on ideas like this, BUT I am not by any means a noted researcher.
      I did find a couple of *seemingly* relevant contents..... one that was particularly notable is http://pup.princeton.edu/chapters/s7769.html content from Princeton entitled "Ritual Interaction Chains".
      .....and I continue looking.......... anyone else?


      PS: additional cool link to start harking on *Religion* AGAIN. Ba'Hiaist view on mental health http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/diglib/books/F-J/H/herzog.htm




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    • Nick Arnett
      On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Leonard Matusik wrote ... I m not sure you re using a proper meaning for attractor states. They are repeating, stable
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 2, 2005
        On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Leonard Matusik wrote

        > Number 4* begged some clarification, so (..for better or worse) I
        > started doing it myself. I began thinking how people tend to claim
        > allegiences.. I'm chinese, I'm male, I'm for the RedSox, etc. ..
        > and in doing so create a corporate entity.. a group of people who
        > behave (somewhat) as an individual.

        I'm not sure you're using a proper meaning for attractor states. They are
        repeating, stable or recurring configurations of nodes in a network system...
        which are almost in opposition, or at least orthogonal, to the idea of
        individuals being attracted to each other via similiarity. A simple Boolean
        network gives rise to attractor states, but there can be no notion of
        similarity between nodes -- they are either identical or opposite.

        Nick

        (It's phylogeny.)

        --
        Nick Arnett
        narnett@...
        Voicemail: 408-904-7198

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      • Leonard Matusik
        ... On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Leonard Matusik wrote ... Well, the context was roughly *culture evolution* and the statement was Dr. David Brins,
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 2, 2005
          On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:40:01 -0700 Nick Arnett wrote:

          :
          On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 07:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Leonard Matusik wrote

          >> Number 4* begged some clarification, so (..for better or worse) I
          >> started doing it myself. I began thinking how people tend to claim
          >> allegiences.. I'm chinese, I'm male, I'm for the RedSox, etc. ..
          >> and in doing so create a corporate entity.. a group of people who
          >> behave (somewhat) as an individual.

          >I'm not sure you're using a proper meaning for attractor states. They are
          >repeating, stable or recurring configurations of nodes in a network system...
          >which are almost in opposition, or at least orthogonal, to the idea of
          >individuals being attracted to each other via similiarity. A simple Boolean
          >network gives rise to attractor states, but there can be no notion of
          >similarity between nodes -- they are either identical or opposite.

          >Nick

          Well, the context was roughly *culture evolution* and the statement was Dr. David Brins, not mine. You sound like a computer guy (I'm not), would you (or anyone else,) like to guess what Dr. Brin meant by the statement?

          "4* the notion of attractor states which will reliably pull groups of humans in, given certain kinds of circumstances." -brin

          Thanks it'd help me out.

          Leonard Matusik Nanotreasures@...

          (It's phylogeny.)

          --
          Nick Arnett
          narnett@...
          Voicemail: 408-904-7198

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        • David Brin
          ... cool. I didn t know that Ronfeldt posted my private musings to him. Do you have a URL? _______________________________________________
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 4, 2005
            --- Leonard Matusik <nanotreasures@...> wrote:

            > I found Brins piece for his 6/12 blogspot so very
            > cool. It was on a RAND publication regarding
            > netCulture.

            cool. I didn't know that Ronfeldt posted my private
            musings to him. Do you have a URL?
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          • Warren Ockrassa
            ... He didn t; you did: I *must* have some of whatever it is you re drinking. ;) -- Warren
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 6, 2005
              On Jul 4, 2005, at 1:45 PM, David Brin wrote:

              > --- Leonard Matusik <nanotreasures@...> wrote:
              >
              >> I found Brins piece for his 6/12 blogspot so very
              >> cool. It was on a RAND publication regarding
              >> netCulture.
              >
              > cool. I didn't know that Ronfeldt posted my private
              > musings to him.

              He didn't; you did:

              <http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2005/06/networks-and-netwar.html>

              I *must* have some of whatever it is you're drinking. ;)


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              Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books
              http://books.nightwares.com/
              Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror"
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