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Re: The French Say "Non!"

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  • Gary Denton
    ... The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you want
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
      On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
      > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
      >
      > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
      > >
      > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
      > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
      > >> document?
      > >
      > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
      > >
      > > Available in 21 languages.
      >
      > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
      > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
      > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.

      The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was
      in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
      want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
      http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm

      Here is a tiny bit of one:

      > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
      > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
      >
      > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the end
      > of 2004;
      >
      > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
      >
      > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher quality of
      > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
      > Accession,
      >
      > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
      > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
      > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
      >
      It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
      conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
      80% of the politicians supported it.

      --
      Gary Denton
      Easter Lemming Blogs
      http://elemming.blogspot.com
      http://elemming2.blogspot.com
      _______________________________________________
      http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
    • Ronn!Blankenship
      ... It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . . -- Ronn! :)
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
        At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
        >On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
        > > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
        > >
        > > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
        > > >
        > > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
        > > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
        > > >> document?
        > > >
        > > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
        > > >
        > > > Available in 21 languages.
        > >
        > > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
        > > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
        > > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.
        >
        >The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was
        >in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
        >want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
        >http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm
        >
        >Here is a tiny bit of one:
        >
        > > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
        > > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
        > >
        > > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the end
        > > of 2004;
        > >
        > > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
        > >
        > > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher quality of
        > > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
        > > Accession,
        > >
        > > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
        > > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
        > > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
        > >
        >It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
        >conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
        >80% of the politicians supported it.


        It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than
        the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .


        -- Ronn! :)


        _______________________________________________
        http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
      • Julia Thompson
        ... How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas constitution requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all sorts of amendments to
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
          Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
          > At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
          >
          >> On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
          >> > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
          >> >
          >> > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
          >> > >
          >> > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
          >> > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
          >> > >> document?
          >> > >
          >> > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
          >> > >
          >> > > Available in 21 languages.
          >> >
          >> > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
          >> > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
          >> > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.
          >>
          >> The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down -
          >> everything was
          >> in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
          >> want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
          >> http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm
          >>
          >> Here is a tiny bit of one:
          >>
          >> > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
          >> > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
          >> >
          >> > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the
          >> end
          >> > of 2004;
          >> >
          >> > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
          >> >
          >> > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher
          >> quality of
          >> > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
          >> > Accession,
          >> >
          >> > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
          >> > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
          >> > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
          >> >
          >> It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
          >> conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
          >> 80% of the politicians supported it.
          >
          >
          >
          > It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution
          > than the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .

          How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas
          constitution requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all
          sorts of amendments to get a good number of things done.

          Julia

          _______________________________________________
          http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
        • Gary Denton
          If you consider all the protocols, understanding, and extensions it is much worse than the Texas which requires amending every two years for simple matters. I
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
            If you consider all the protocols, understanding, and extensions it is
            much worse than the Texas which requires amending every two years for
            simple matters.

            I am not sure if these protocols and understandings should be
            considered as the EU Constitution as they deal with such important
            issues as individual factory modernizations and property rights of
            citizens of the EU in Malta for properties of various prices.

            The right nationalists, the anti-bureaucratise, and the socialists had
            much to dislike as well as proponents of a common sense democratic
            union.


            On 6/2/05, Julia Thompson <julia@...> wrote:
            > Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
            > > At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
            > >
            > >> On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
            > >> > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
            > >> >
            > >> > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
            > >> > >
            > >> > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
            > >> > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
            > >> > >> document?
            > >> > >
            > >> > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
            <snip>
            > >
            > > It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution
            > > than the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .
            >
            > How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas
            > constitution requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all
            > sorts of amendments to get a good number of things done.
            >
            --
            Gary Denton
            Easter Lemming Blogs
            http://elemming.blogspot.com
            http://elemming2.blogspot.com
            _______________________________________________
            http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
          • Ronn!Blankenship
            ... So does Alabama. For all sorts of local matters. How many times has the Texas constitution been amended? IIRC, in now a little over a century, Alabama s
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
              At 08:05 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Julia Thompson wrote:
              >Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
              >>At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
              >>
              >>>On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
              >>> > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
              >>> >
              >>> > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
              >>> > >
              >>> > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
              >>> > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
              >>> > >> document?
              >>> > >
              >>> > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
              >>> > >
              >>> > > Available in 21 languages.
              >>> >
              >>> > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
              >>> > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
              >>> > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.
              >>>
              >>>The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was
              >>>in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
              >>>want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
              >>>http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm
              >>>
              >>>Here is a tiny bit of one:
              >>>
              >>> > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
              >>> > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
              >>> >
              >>> > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the end
              >>> > of 2004;
              >>> >
              >>> > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
              >>> >
              >>> > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher quality of
              >>> > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
              >>> > Accession,
              >>> >
              >>> > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
              >>> > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
              >>> > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
              >>> >
              >>>It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
              >>>conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
              >>>80% of the politicians supported it.
              >>
              >>It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than
              >>the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .
              >
              >How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas constitution
              >requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all sorts of
              >amendments to get a good number of things done.


              So does Alabama. For all sorts of local matters. How many times has the
              Texas constitution been amended? IIRC, in now a little over a century,
              Alabama's has been amended over 600 times (and those are just the ones
              which actually passed through that process and got approved . . . many more
              have been tried.)


              -- Ronn! :)


              _______________________________________________
              http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
            • Gary Denton
              ... ... As of 2003 (78th Legislature), the Texas Legislature has passed a total of 606 amendments. Of these, 432 have been adopted and 174 have been
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
                On 6/2/05, Ronn!Blankenship <ronn.blankenship@...> wrote:
                > At 08:05 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Julia Thompson wrote:
                > >Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
                > >>At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
                > >>
                > >>>On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
                <snip>
                > >>It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than
                > >>the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .
                > >
                > >How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas constitution
                > >requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all sorts of
                > >amendments to get a good number of things done.
                >
                >
                > So does Alabama. For all sorts of local matters. How many times has the
                > Texas constitution been amended? IIRC, in now a little over a century,
                > Alabama's has been amended over 600 times (and those are just the ones
                > which actually passed through that process and got approved . . . many more
                > have been tried.)
                >
                >
                > -- Ronn! :)

                As of 2003 (78th Legislature), the Texas Legislature has passed a
                total of 606 amendments. Of these, 432 have been adopted and 174 have
                been defeated by Texas voters. Thus, the Texas Constitution has been
                amended 432 times since its adoption in 1876.

                --
                Gary Denton
                Easter Lemming Blogs
                http://elemming.blogspot.com
                http://elemming2.blogspot.com
                _______________________________________________
                http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
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