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Re: The French Say "Non!"

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  • Warren Ockrassa
    ... And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a union day definition,
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
      On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:

      > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
      >
      >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
      >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
      >> document?
      >
      > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
      >
      > Available in 21 languages.

      And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
      codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
      day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.


      --
      Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books
      http://books.nightwares.com/
      Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror"
      http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf

      _______________________________________________
      http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
    • Gary Denton
      ... The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you want
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
        On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
        > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
        >
        > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
        > >
        > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
        > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
        > >> document?
        > >
        > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
        > >
        > > Available in 21 languages.
        >
        > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
        > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
        > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.

        The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was
        in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
        want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
        http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm

        Here is a tiny bit of one:

        > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
        > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
        >
        > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the end
        > of 2004;
        >
        > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
        >
        > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher quality of
        > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
        > Accession,
        >
        > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
        > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
        > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
        >
        It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
        conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
        80% of the politicians supported it.

        --
        Gary Denton
        Easter Lemming Blogs
        http://elemming.blogspot.com
        http://elemming2.blogspot.com
        _______________________________________________
        http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
      • Ronn!Blankenship
        ... It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . . -- Ronn! :)
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 1, 2005
          At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
          >On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
          > > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
          > >
          > > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
          > > >
          > > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
          > > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
          > > >> document?
          > > >
          > > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
          > > >
          > > > Available in 21 languages.
          > >
          > > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
          > > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
          > > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.
          >
          >The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was
          >in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
          >want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
          >http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm
          >
          >Here is a tiny bit of one:
          >
          > > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
          > > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
          > >
          > > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the end
          > > of 2004;
          > >
          > > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
          > >
          > > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher quality of
          > > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
          > > Accession,
          > >
          > > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
          > > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
          > > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
          > >
          >It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
          >conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
          >80% of the politicians supported it.


          It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than
          the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .


          -- Ronn! :)


          _______________________________________________
          http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
        • Julia Thompson
          ... How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas constitution requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all sorts of amendments to
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
            Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
            > At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
            >
            >> On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
            >> > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
            >> >
            >> > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
            >> > >
            >> > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
            >> > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
            >> > >> document?
            >> > >
            >> > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
            >> > >
            >> > > Available in 21 languages.
            >> >
            >> > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
            >> > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
            >> > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.
            >>
            >> The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down -
            >> everything was
            >> in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
            >> want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
            >> http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm
            >>
            >> Here is a tiny bit of one:
            >>
            >> > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
            >> > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
            >> >
            >> > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the
            >> end
            >> > of 2004;
            >> >
            >> > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
            >> >
            >> > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher
            >> quality of
            >> > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
            >> > Accession,
            >> >
            >> > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
            >> > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
            >> > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
            >> >
            >> It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
            >> conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
            >> 80% of the politicians supported it.
            >
            >
            >
            > It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution
            > than the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .

            How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas
            constitution requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all
            sorts of amendments to get a good number of things done.

            Julia

            _______________________________________________
            http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
          • Gary Denton
            If you consider all the protocols, understanding, and extensions it is much worse than the Texas which requires amending every two years for simple matters. I
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
              If you consider all the protocols, understanding, and extensions it is
              much worse than the Texas which requires amending every two years for
              simple matters.

              I am not sure if these protocols and understandings should be
              considered as the EU Constitution as they deal with such important
              issues as individual factory modernizations and property rights of
              citizens of the EU in Malta for properties of various prices.

              The right nationalists, the anti-bureaucratise, and the socialists had
              much to dislike as well as proponents of a common sense democratic
              union.


              On 6/2/05, Julia Thompson <julia@...> wrote:
              > Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
              > > At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
              > >
              > >> On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
              > >> > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
              > >> >
              > >> > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
              > >> > >
              > >> > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
              > >> > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
              > >> > >> document?
              > >> > >
              > >> > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
              <snip>
              > >
              > > It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution
              > > than the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .
              >
              > How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas
              > constitution requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all
              > sorts of amendments to get a good number of things done.
              >
              --
              Gary Denton
              Easter Lemming Blogs
              http://elemming.blogspot.com
              http://elemming2.blogspot.com
              _______________________________________________
              http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
            • Ronn!Blankenship
              ... So does Alabama. For all sorts of local matters. How many times has the Texas constitution been amended? IIRC, in now a little over a century, Alabama s
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
                At 08:05 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Julia Thompson wrote:
                >Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
                >>At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
                >>
                >>>On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
                >>> > On May 31, 2005, at 1:19 PM, Dave Land wrote:
                >>> >
                >>> > > On May 31, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
                >>> > >
                >>> > >> Yeah. What I've been missing in the flurry of coverage is the actual
                >>> > >> constitution itself. Anyone have a link handy to the text of the
                >>> > >> document?
                >>> > >
                >>> > > http://europa.eu.int/constitution/index_en.htm
                >>> > >
                >>> > > Available in 21 languages.
                >>> >
                >>> > And overwrought in each. Yikes. When your constitution *starts* with
                >>> > codification of a flag, an anthem, a motto, a currency and a "union
                >>> > day" definition, you've become FAR too bogged down in details.
                >>>
                >>>The Constitution was a mess and should have been voted down - everything was
                >>>in that thing. Long, complicated, cumbersome,and complex is not what you
                >>>want in a Constitution. Check out all the protocols:
                >>>http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm
                >>>
                >>>Here is a tiny bit of one:
                >>>
                >>> > 11. The business plan for the benefiting company Válcovny Plechu Frýdek
                >>> > Místek (VPFM) shall be implemented. In particular:
                >>> >
                >>> > (a) Hot Rolling Mills Nos 1 and 2 shall be permanently closed at the end
                >>> > of 2004;
                >>> >
                >>> > (b) restructuring efforts shall concentrate on the following:
                >>> >
                >>> > (i) making the necessary investment in order to reach a higher quality of
                >>> > finished product in the short term after the signing of the Treaty of
                >>> > Accession,
                >>> >
                >>> > (ii) giving priority to the implementation of key identified profit
                >>> > improvement opportunities (including employment restructuring, cost
                >>> > reductions, yield improvements and distribution reorientation).
                >>> >
                >>>It is also interesting French liberals rejected it for being too
                >>>conservative and tied to big business after nearly all the media and over
                >>>80% of the politicians supported it.
                >>
                >>It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than
                >>the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .
                >
                >How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas constitution
                >requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all sorts of
                >amendments to get a good number of things done.


                So does Alabama. For all sorts of local matters. How many times has the
                Texas constitution been amended? IIRC, in now a little over a century,
                Alabama's has been amended over 600 times (and those are just the ones
                which actually passed through that process and got approved . . . many more
                have been tried.)


                -- Ronn! :)


                _______________________________________________
                http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
              • Gary Denton
                ... ... As of 2003 (78th Legislature), the Texas Legislature has passed a total of 606 amendments. Of these, 432 have been adopted and 174 have been
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 2, 2005
                  On 6/2/05, Ronn!Blankenship <ronn.blankenship@...> wrote:
                  > At 08:05 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Julia Thompson wrote:
                  > >Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
                  > >>At 12:49 AM Thursday 6/2/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>>On 6/1/05, Warren Ockrassa <warren@...> wrote:
                  <snip>
                  > >>It sounds like someone may finally have written a worse constitution than
                  > >>the Alabama constitution of 1901 (which is still in effect) . . .
                  > >
                  > >How much worse than the Texas constitution is it? The Texas constitution
                  > >requires that the legislature, then the voters, pass all sorts of
                  > >amendments to get a good number of things done.
                  >
                  >
                  > So does Alabama. For all sorts of local matters. How many times has the
                  > Texas constitution been amended? IIRC, in now a little over a century,
                  > Alabama's has been amended over 600 times (and those are just the ones
                  > which actually passed through that process and got approved . . . many more
                  > have been tried.)
                  >
                  >
                  > -- Ronn! :)

                  As of 2003 (78th Legislature), the Texas Legislature has passed a
                  total of 606 amendments. Of these, 432 have been adopted and 174 have
                  been defeated by Texas voters. Thus, the Texas Constitution has been
                  amended 432 times since its adoption in 1876.

                  --
                  Gary Denton
                  Easter Lemming Blogs
                  http://elemming.blogspot.com
                  http://elemming2.blogspot.com
                  _______________________________________________
                  http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
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