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First Pluto is not a planet, and now . . . .

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  • Ronn! Blankenship
    Triceratops never really existed but was just a young version of another dinosaur
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
      Triceratops 'never really existed but was just a young version of
      another dinosaur'

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1299666/Triceratops-really-existed.html

      or

      http://tinyurl.com/28tbfy8




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    • Charlie Bell
      ... Or more precisely, it s been discovered that _Torosaurus_ has been discovered to be mature _Triceratops_. And in this case, I believe _Triceratops_ has
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
        On 03/08/2010, at 8:24 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:

        > Triceratops 'never really existed but was just a young version of another dinosaur'
        >
        > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1299666/Triceratops-really-existed.html

        Or more precisely, it's been discovered that _Torosaurus_ has been discovered to be mature _Triceratops_. And in this case, I believe _Triceratops_ has precedence so _Torosaurus_ is folded in.

        Stupid headlines and stupid commenters and stupid reporting and fascist owners are why I won't touch the Daily Mail...

        And this isn't news at all, btw - http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=are-torosaurus-and-triceratops-one-2009-09-28 is 10 months old.

        But thanks, it's a great example of science at work. It's also becoming common - lots of what were thought to be different species are becoming merged as the numbers of specimens increases. What we're learning is that some dinosaurs had some pretty impressive phenotypic plasticity through their lifetimes.

        C.
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      • Alberto Monteiro
        ... There can t be too many different species, Noah s Ark wasn t big enough to carry them all! Alberto Monteiro _______________________________________________
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
          Charlie Bell wrote:
          >
          > But thanks, it's a great example of science at work. It's also
          > becoming common - lots of what were thought to be different species
          > are becoming merged as the numbers of specimens increases. What
          > we're learning is that some dinosaurs had some pretty impressive
          > phenotypic plasticity through their lifetimes.
          >
          There can't be too many different species, Noah's Ark wasn't
          big enough to carry them all!

          Alberto Monteiro


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        • Charlie Bell
          ... Convert cubits to metric. It s much bigger then... ;-) C. _______________________________________________
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
            On 03/08/2010, at 10:35 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote:

            >
            > Charlie Bell wrote:
            >>
            >> But thanks, it's a great example of science at work. It's also
            >> becoming common - lots of what were thought to be different species
            >> are becoming merged as the numbers of specimens increases. What
            >> we're learning is that some dinosaurs had some pretty impressive
            >> phenotypic plasticity through their lifetimes.
            >>
            > There can't be too many different species, Noah's Ark wasn't
            > big enough to carry them all!

            Convert cubits to metric. It's much bigger then... ;-)

            C.

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          • Nick Arnett
            ... What, evolution stopped with the Ark? As long as we re on that subject, it dawned on me a while ago that the trouble I have with creationists is that they
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
              On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Alberto Monteiro <albmont@...> wrote:

              There can't be too many different species, Noah's Ark wasn't
              big enough to carry them all!

              What, evolution stopped with the Ark?

              As long as we're on that subject, it dawned on me a while ago that the trouble I have with creationists is that they believe in a God who is too stupid to have created evolution.

              Nick
               

            • William T Goodall
              ... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faith-and-foolishness Every two years the National Science Foundation produces a report, Science and
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                On 3 Aug 2010, at 16:10, Nick Arnett wrote:

                >
                >
                > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Alberto Monteiro <albmont@...> wrote:
                >
                > There can't be too many different species, Noah's Ark wasn't
                > big enough to carry them all!
                >
                > What, evolution stopped with the Ark?
                >
                > As long as we're on that subject, it dawned on me a while ago that the trouble I have with creationists is that they believe in a God who is too stupid to have created evolution.

                http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faith-and-foolishness

                "Every two years the National Science Foundation produces a report, Science and Engineering Indicators, designed to probe the public’s understanding of science concepts. And every two years we relearn the sad fact that U.S. adults are less willing to accept evolution and the big bang as factual than adults in other industrial countries."
                ...
                "When presented with the statement “human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals,” just 45 percent of respondents indicated “true.” Compare this figure with the affirmative percentages in Japan (78), Europe (70), China (69) and South Korea (64). "


                --
                William T Goodall
                Mail : wtg@...
                Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
                Blog : http://blog.williamgoodall.name/

                Debunking bullshit is a thankless task.


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              • Nick Arnett
                ... Americans apparently are increasingly afraid of lightning. It is bad luck to be superstitious! Nick On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William T Goodall
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                  On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William T Goodall <wtg@...> wrote:

                  ...
                  "When presented with the statement “human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals,” just 45 percent of respondents indicated “true.” Compare this figure with the affirmative percentages in Japan (78), Europe (70), China (69) and South Korea (64). "

                  Americans apparently are increasingly afraid of lightning.

                  It is bad luck to be superstitious!

                  Nick
                • Julia
                  _____ From: brin-l-bounces@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-bounces@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:34 AM To: Killer Bs
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                     


                    From: brin-l-bounces@... [mailto:brin-l-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:34 AM
                    To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion
                    Subject: Re: First Pluto is not a planet, and now . . . .

                    It is bad luck to be superstitious!
                     
                     
                     
                    Yes, it is.   I get extremely annoyed at myself for giving in to superstitious thinking on certain things, and whenever I start beating myself up, I'm usually doing it in front of someone who can see exactly *why* my brain is doing what it's doing, and just has sympathy and reassurance. 
                     
                        Julia
                     
                     
                     
                  • Bruce Bostwick
                    ... Hey, self=fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias are sort of a national cultural tradition around here. :p (The people who answered false might
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                      On Aug 3, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:

                      > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William T Goodall <wtg@...
                      > > wrote:
                      >
                      > ...
                      > "When presented with the statement “human beings, as we know them
                      > today, developed from earlier species of animals,” just 45 percent
                      > of respondents indicated “true.” Compare this figure with the
                      > affirmative percentages in Japan (78), Europe (70), China (69) and
                      > South Korea (64). "
                      >
                      > Americans apparently are increasingly afraid of lightning.

                      Hey, self=fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias are sort of a
                      national cultural tradition around here. :p

                      (The people who answered "false" might rightly claim that 1. they've
                      always believed in non-evolutionary creation, and 2. they've never
                      been hit by lightning, so it must be working, right? ;)



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                    • Alberto Monteiro
                      ... I think the problem with creationists is that it s a good excuse for satanism. If God is such a motherfscker to create the world in six days and place
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                        Nick Arnett wrote:
                        >
                        >> There can't be too many different species, Noah's Ark wasn't
                        >> big enough to carry them all!
                        >
                        > What, evolution stopped with the Ark?
                        >
                        > As long as we're on that subject, it dawned on me a while ago
                        > that the trouble I have with creationists is that they believe
                        > in a God who is too stupid to have created evolution.
                        >
                        I think the problem with creationists is that it's a good
                        excuse for satanism. If God is such a motherfscker to create
                        the world in six days and place everywhere signs that the
                        Earth is 5 billion years old and the Universe is 15 billion
                        years old, just to deceive His creation, then Satan can't be
                        that bad in rebelling.

                        Alberto Monteiro


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                      • Bruce Bostwick
                        ... They also believe in a god who loves them so much that he ll destroy them if they don t believe totally in him and do everything he says without question.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                          On Aug 3, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:

                          > As long as we're on that subject, it dawned on me a while ago that
                          > the trouble I have with creationists is that they believe in a God
                          > who is too stupid to have created evolution.

                          They also believe in a god who loves them so much that he'll destroy
                          them if they don't believe totally in him and do everything he says
                          without question. And who killed and then resurrected his son just to
                          show them he meant business.

                          That's always sounded like a rather unhealthy kind of relationship to
                          me.

                          "You wanna tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing?"
                          -- Toby Ziegler



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                        • Dave Land
                          ... I ve actually heard the claim that all the evidence that the earth is 5 billion years old (and so forth) are tricks of the devil, designed to erode our
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                            On Aug 3, 2010, at 10:13 AM, Alberto Monteiro wrote:

                            > Nick Arnett wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> There can't be too many different species, Noah's Ark wasn't
                            >>> big enough to carry them all!
                            >>
                            >> What, evolution stopped with the Ark?
                            >>
                            >> As long as we're on that subject, it dawned on me a while ago
                            >> that the trouble I have with creationists is that they believe
                            >> in a God who is too stupid to have created evolution.
                            >>
                            > I think the problem with creationists is that it's a good
                            > excuse for satanism. If God is such a motherfscker to create
                            > the world in six days and place everywhere signs that the
                            > Earth is 5 billion years old and the Universe is 15 billion
                            > years old, just to deceive His creation, then Satan can't be
                            > that bad in rebelling.

                            I've actually heard the claim that all the evidence that the earth
                            is 5 billion years old (and so forth) are tricks of the devil,
                            designed to erode our faith in God. Not just "read it somewhere",
                            but heard it spoken as though it was true.

                            Then again, there's the Jewish tradition that "The Satan" isn't
                            an embodiment of pure evil or some bad dude in red pajamas with a
                            goatee and a pitchfork, but is, in fact, the "prosecuting angel",
                            whose role is to find out whether believers are truly faithful.
                            He works _for_ God in that capacity and asks permission from God
                            to do what he does.

                            The idea that Christianity or Judaism believe that the devil is
                            a separate but (thankfully, not quite) equal power to God is
                            nonsense: it goes against the whole idea of monotheism. You can
                            accept or not accept the monotheistic God of Judeo-Christianity
                            as you see fit, but you can't accept it _and_ have this "other
                            power" floating out there, too. He works for God or he doesn't
                            exist.

                            Dave



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                          • Dan Minette
                            ... I think that Enoch was a monotheistic Jew. Most of the common understanding of the devil comes from Enoch. Indeed, in the book of Jude, Enoch was quoted
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                              >The idea that Christianity or Judaism believe that the devil is
                              >a separate but (thankfully, not quite) equal power to God is
                              >nonsense: it goes against the whole idea of monotheism. You can
                              >accept or not accept the monotheistic God of Judeo-Christianity
                              >as you see fit, but you can't accept it _and_ have this "other
                              >power" floating out there, too. He works for God or he doesn't
                              >exist.

                              I think that Enoch was a monotheistic Jew. Most of the common understanding
                              of the devil comes from Enoch. Indeed, in the book of Jude, Enoch was quoted
                              as scripture.

                              The idea of the Satan as chief of the fallen angels who used their divinely
                              given free will to oppose God doesn't contradict monotheism. It sorta puts
                              Satan as a super-Hitler...someone who can convince others to do evil, and
                              can do evil on his own, but a creature of God who sins.

                              Non-monotheistic Judaism is seen earlier in the Old Testament, before, say,
                              Isaiah and Jeremiah. The gods of the Egyptians, for example, were not
                              considered a fantasy, but weaker gods than Yahweh.

                              Dan M.


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                            • Bruce Bostwick
                              ... It is fun, however, to point out to Satanists that they are, in fact, at least indirectly Christians. It makse their heads explode quite entertainingly.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                                On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Dave Land wrote:

                                > The idea that Christianity or Judaism believe that the devil is
                                > a separate but (thankfully, not quite) equal power to God is
                                > nonsense: it goes against the whole idea of monotheism. You can
                                > accept or not accept the monotheistic God of Judeo-Christianity
                                > as you see fit, but you can't accept it _and_ have this "other
                                > power" floating out there, too. He works for God or he doesn't
                                > exist.
                                >
                                > Dave

                                It is fun, however, to point out to Satanists that they are, in fact,
                                at least indirectly Christians. It makse their heads explode quite
                                entertainingly. :D

                                HAH, YES. HE ACTUALLY SAYS IN HIS LETTER, "I BET YOU DON'T EXIST 'COS
                                EVERYONE KNOWS ITS YORE PARENTS." OH YES, said Death, with what almost
                                sounded like sarcasm, I'M SURE HIS PARENTS ARE JUST IMPATIENT TO BANG
                                THEIR ELBOWS IN TWELVE FEET OF NARROW UNSWEPT CHIMNEY, I DON'T THINK.

                                (: HAPPY HOGSWATCH :)


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                              • William T Goodall
                                ... I point out that Christians are actually Satanists. One big happy pantheon Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : wtg@wtgab.demon.co.uk Web :
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                                  On 3 Aug 2010, at 19:35, Bruce Bostwick wrote:

                                  > On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Dave Land wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> The idea that Christianity or Judaism believe that the devil is
                                  >> a separate but (thankfully, not quite) equal power to God is
                                  >> nonsense: it goes against the whole idea of monotheism. You can
                                  >> accept or not accept the monotheistic God of Judeo-Christianity
                                  >> as you see fit, but you can't accept it _and_ have this "other
                                  >> power" floating out there, too. He works for God or he doesn't
                                  >> exist.
                                  >>
                                  >> Dave
                                  >
                                  > It is fun, however, to point out to Satanists that they are, in fact, at least indirectly Christians. It makse their heads explode quite entertainingly. :D

                                  I point out that Christians are actually Satanists.

                                  One big happy pantheon Maru
                                  --
                                  William T Goodall
                                  Mail : wtg@...
                                  Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
                                  Blog : http://blog.williamgoodall.name/

                                  Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons.





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                                • Bruce Bostwick
                                  ... In the sense that Christians, Satanists, Jews, and Muslims are all part of the same larger belief-system, at least. Sibling rivalry Maru
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                                    On Aug 3, 2010, at 4:00 PM, William T Goodall wrote:

                                    > On 3 Aug 2010, at 19:35, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Dave Land wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>> The idea that Christianity or Judaism believe that the devil is
                                    >>> a separate but (thankfully, not quite) equal power to God is
                                    >>> nonsense: it goes against the whole idea of monotheism. You can
                                    >>> accept or not accept the monotheistic God of Judeo-Christianity
                                    >>> as you see fit, but you can't accept it _and_ have this "other
                                    >>> power" floating out there, too. He works for God or he doesn't
                                    >>> exist.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Dave
                                    >>
                                    >> It is fun, however, to point out to Satanists that they are, in
                                    >> fact, at least indirectly Christians. It makse their heads explode
                                    >> quite entertainingly. :D
                                    >
                                    > I point out that Christians are actually Satanists.
                                    >
                                    > One big happy pantheon Maru

                                    In the sense that Christians, Satanists, Jews, and Muslims are all
                                    part of the same larger belief-system, at least.

                                    Sibling rivalry Maru




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                                  • Charlie Bell
                                    ... So God needs to use entrapment? Charlie. _______________________________________________ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                                      On 04/08/2010, at 3:48 AM, Dave Land wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Then again, there's the Jewish tradition that "The Satan" isn't
                                      > an embodiment of pure evil or some bad dude in red pajamas with a
                                      > goatee and a pitchfork, but is, in fact, the "prosecuting angel",
                                      > whose role is to find out whether believers are truly faithful.
                                      > He works _for_ God in that capacity and asks permission from God
                                      > to do what he does.

                                      So God needs to use entrapment?

                                      Charlie.


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                                    • Dave Land
                                      ... Heh. I just report em. I don t make em up. This is the sort of thing that makes me a very liberal Christian. Dave
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                                        On Aug 3, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Charlie Bell wrote:

                                        > On 04/08/2010, at 3:48 AM, Dave Land wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> Then again, there's the Jewish tradition that "The Satan" isn't
                                        >> an embodiment of pure evil or some bad dude in red pajamas with a
                                        >> goatee and a pitchfork, but is, in fact, the "prosecuting angel",
                                        >> whose role is to find out whether believers are truly faithful.
                                        >> He works _for_ God in that capacity and asks permission from God
                                        >> to do what he does.
                                        >
                                        > So God needs to use entrapment?

                                        Heh. I just report 'em. I don't make 'em up. This is the sort of
                                        thing that makes me a very liberal Christian.

                                        Dave


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                                      • Dan Minette
                                        ... In defense of the Jews of about 400 BCE to 200 BCE their theology was actually a bit different than the characterization of it by folks who haven t studied
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 3, 2010
                                          >> So God needs to use entrapment?

                                          >Heh. I just report 'em. I don't make 'em up. This is the sort of
                                          >thing that makes me a very liberal Christian.

                                          In defense of the Jews of about 400 BCE to 200 BCE their theology was
                                          actually a bit different than the characterization of it by folks who
                                          haven't studied what they wrote.

                                          At the time, everyone in the area were very aware of overkings and
                                          underkings; and of the overkings court. In post-Restoration Jewish though,
                                          the great court was Yahweh's. He had, as court functionaries, the
                                          equivalent of the DA and the advocate for humans: Satan and Michael. In the
                                          stories, Satan's job was to test man...to see if he would keep covenant, and
                                          to argue for man's failings. Michael's was to be man's advocate.

                                          Michael tended to win, but Satan had his proper role. In many ancient, and
                                          actually modern, social structures, one had to be tested, to be refined in
                                          the flame to be proven worthy and true. That testing was Satan's job. But,
                                          from the standpoint of the Jews, he was rather too zealous in his work.
                                          Thu, in God's mercy, we were given a stronger advocate.

                                          Even when the theology changed to Enoch's, Michael was still stronger than
                                          Satan. God, of course, ruled all, but allowed for his creatures to have the
                                          freedom of their own wills.

                                          Dan M.


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                                        • Max Battcher
                                          ... Spinning back, somewhat, towards the topic of this list: the Book(s) of Enoch keep getting brought up in my science fiction reading lately. For this I
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 4, 2010
                                            On 08/03/2010 02:07 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
                                            > I think that Enoch was a monotheistic Jew. Most of the common understanding
                                            > of the devil comes from Enoch. Indeed, in the book of Jude, Enoch was quoted
                                            > as scripture.

                                            Spinning back, somewhat, towards the topic of this list: the Book(s) of
                                            Enoch keep getting brought up in my science fiction reading lately. For
                                            this I particularly blame Neal Stephenson (I've just reached the
                                            beginning of Book 8: System of the World in Stephenson's Baroque Cycle),
                                            but there have been a few other Singularitarians out there invoking the
                                            name of Enoch in one fashion or another.

                                            Has anyone else been noticing this "trend"? Anyone got some interesting
                                            thoughts on the matter? Certainly my own research on the subject has
                                            primarily been "the esteemed" Wikipedia.

                                            One interesting thing that stands out in my mind is that Enoch's "angel
                                            name" after ascending is apparently transliterated "Metatron". It is, of
                                            course, fascinating the modern sci-fi (or at least Transformers) sound
                                            of the name to an English-speaking audience. (I've got a feeling that
                                            this is also something that fascinated Mr. Stephenson, as I've heard it
                                            said that the Baroque Cycle is a (very) long meandering tangent en route
                                            to some sort of Singularitarian capstone...)

                                            --
                                            --Max Battcher--
                                            http://worldmaker.net

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                                          • Euan Ritchie
                                            ... ...that some cosmic jewish zombie, who is his own father, can make you live forever if you symbolicawy eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Sep 7, 2010
                                              > They also believe...

                                              ...that some cosmic jewish zombie, who is his own father, can make you
                                              live forever if you symbolicawy eat his flesh and telepathically tell
                                              him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force
                                              from your soul, that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was
                                              convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

                                              To quote a meme.



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                                            • Doug Pensinger
                                              ... Makes the FSM sound downright believable, no? Doug _______________________________________________
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Sep 7, 2010
                                                On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Euan Ritchie <euan@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> They also believe...
                                                >
                                                > ...that some cosmic jewish zombie, who is his own father, can make you
                                                > live forever if you symbolicawy eat his flesh and telepathically tell
                                                > him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force
                                                > from your soul, that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was
                                                > convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
                                                >
                                                > To quote a meme.

                                                Makes the FSM sound downright believable, no?

                                                Doug

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                                              • Alberto Monteiro
                                                ... I guess you are reading too much Uncyclopedia... Alberto Monteiro _______________________________________________
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Sep 8, 2010
                                                  Euan Ritchie trolled:
                                                  >
                                                  > ...that some cosmic jewish zombie, who is his own father, can make
                                                  > you live forever if you symbolicawy eat his flesh and telepathically
                                                  > tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an
                                                  > evil force from your soul, that is present in humanity because a rib-
                                                  > woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
                                                  >
                                                  :-)))))))))))))))

                                                  I guess you are reading too much Uncyclopedia...

                                                  Alberto Monteiro



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