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Re: Uplift Universe question....

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  • Dave Land
    ... I have been trying to find the origin of that particular piece of Wikipedia-mockery (that, according to Wikipedia itself, Wikipedia has been around for X00
    Message 1 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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      On May 8, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:

      > According to Wikipedia (a reliable source for over 200 years,
      > according to Wikipedia):

      I have been trying to find the origin of that particular piece of
      Wikipedia-mockery (that, according to Wikipedia itself, Wikipedia has
      been around for X00 years) for some time -- does anybody know where it
      came from?

      Dave


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    • Medievalbk@aol.com
      In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:12:20 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dmland@gmail.com writes: ... I have been trying to find the origin of that particular
      Message 2 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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        In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:12:20 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dmland@... writes:
        On May 8, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:

        > According to Wikipedia (a reliable source for over 200 years, 
        > according to Wikipedia):

        I have been trying to find the origin of that particular piece of 
        Wikipedia-mockery (that, according to Wikipedia itself, Wikipedia has 
        been around for X00 years) for some time -- does anybody know where it 
        came from?

        Dave
         
        Macbeth.
         
         
        Something Wikipedia this way comes.
         
        Vilyehm
         
         
         
         
         
         
         

         
      • Julia Thompson
        ... So, it wasn t actually *reliable* for some of the *first* 200 years? Julia _______________________________________________
        Message 3 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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          On Fri, 8 May 2009, Medievalbk@... wrote:

          > In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:12:20 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
          > dmland@... writes:
          >
          > On May 8, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:
          >
          >> According to Wikipedia (a reliable source for over 200 years,
          >> according to Wikipedia):
          >
          > I have been trying to find the origin of that particular piece of
          > Wikipedia-mockery (that, according to Wikipedia itself, Wikipedia has
          > been around for X00 years) for some time -- does anybody know where it
          > came from?
          >
          > Dave
          >
          >
          > Macbeth.
          >
          >
          > Something Wikipedia this way comes.
          >
          > Vilyehm

          So, it wasn't actually *reliable* for some of the *first* 200 years?

          Julia


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        • Rceeberger
          ... Seems like a lot of work to me. Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other species that did get uplifted. I would think Swines
          Message 4 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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            On 5/8/2009 10:22:00 AM, Nick Arnett (nick.arnett@...) wrote:
            > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Leonard Matusik <nanotreasures@...
            > [link: mailto:nanotreasures@...]> wrote:
            > ... though the initial Uplift of Earth was a rogue undertaking... accomplished
            > by Wolflings far removed from the conventional wisdom of the Galactic
            > Community... and that term 'Wolfling'... what did Brin mean by that?
            > (...and did the Tibrini represent Baloo the Bear?..... lmao/tiny...)
            >
            > I imagine the Chimps of the Uplift universe were heavily reg/bonobo
            > hybrids.. esp considering the scene in the chimp bar...
            >
            >
            >
            > According to Wikipedia (a reliable source for over 200 years, according to
            > Wikipedia):
            >
            >
            > "Dogs [link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog] have been mentioned as a possible client of Humanity in several books, but their final adoption has not been confirmed."
            >
            >
            > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EarthClan#Neo-Dogs [link: en.wikipedia.
            > org/wiki/EarthClan#Neo-Dogs]
            >
            >
            Seems like a lot of work to me.
            Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other species that did get uplifted.
            I would think Swines would be easier.

            xponent
            When Swines Flew Maru
            rob

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          • Ronn! Blankenship
            ... http://roflrazzi.com/2009/05/06/celebrity-pictures-pigs-in-space-swine-flu/ . . . ronn! :) _______________________________________________
            Message 5 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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              At 05:30 PM Friday 5/8/2009, Rceeberger wrote:

              >On 5/8/2009 10:22:00 AM, Nick Arnett (nick.arnett@...) wrote:
              > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Leonard Matusik <nanotreasures@...
              > > [link: mailto:nanotreasures@...]> wrote:
              > > ... though the initial Uplift of Earth was a rogue undertaking...
              > accomplished
              > > by Wolflings far removed from the conventional wisdom of the Galactic
              > > Community... and that term 'Wolfling'... what did Brin mean by that?
              > > (...and did the Tibrini represent Baloo the Bear?..... lmao/tiny...)
              > >
              > > I imagine the Chimps of the Uplift universe were heavily reg/bonobo
              > > hybrids.. esp considering the scene in the chimp bar...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > According to Wikipedia (a reliable source for over 200 years, according to
              > > Wikipedia):
              > >
              > >
              > > "Dogs [link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog] have been mentioned as a
              > possible client of Humanity in several books, but their final
              > adoption has not been confirmed."
              > >
              > >
              > > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EarthClan#Neo-Dogs [link: en.wikipedia.
              > > org/wiki/EarthClan#Neo-Dogs]
              > >
              > >
              >Seems like a lot of work to me.
              >Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to
              >other species that did get uplifted.
              >I would think Swines would be easier.
              >
              >xponent
              >When Swines Flew Maru
              >rob



              http://roflrazzi.com/2009/05/06/celebrity-pictures-pigs-in-space-swine-flu/


              . . . ronn! :)



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            • Charlie Bell
              ... As would corvids and parrots. Charlie. _______________________________________________ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
              Message 6 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                On 09/05/2009, at 8:30 AM, Rceeberger wrote:
                > Seems like a lot of work to me.
                > Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to
                > other species that did get uplifted.
                > I would think Swines would be easier.

                As would corvids and parrots.

                Charlie.

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              • Dan M
                I ve got a question that I think about when I think of Brin. He hasn t written a regular novel since Kiln People, which was about 6 years ago...and his last
                Message 7 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                  I've got a question that I think about when I think of Brin. He hasn't
                  written a regular novel since Kiln People, which was about 6 years ago...and
                  his last graphic novel was a year after that.

                  Is it fair to say that, while he will continue to write short fiction, the
                  probability of a new novel is exponentially decaying, or will there be new
                  novels?

                  Dan M.


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                • Charlie Bell
                  ... We could find out through the magic of actually asking someone who might know. Say, himself? :) Charlie. _______________________________________________
                  Message 8 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                    On 09/05/2009, at 11:10 AM, Dan M wrote:

                    > I've got a question that I think about when I think of Brin. He
                    > hasn't
                    > written a regular novel since Kiln People, which was about 6 years
                    > ago...and
                    > his last graphic novel was a year after that.
                    >
                    > Is it fair to say that, while he will continue to write short
                    > fiction, the
                    > probability of a new novel is exponentially decaying, or will there
                    > be new
                    > novels?

                    We could find out through the magic of actually asking someone who
                    might know. Say, himself? :)

                    Charlie.

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                  • David Hobby
                    ... ... Dan-- Not that I ve read it yet, but your sense is that _Sky Horizon_ doesn t count?
                    Message 9 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                      Dan M wrote:
                      > I've got a question that I think about when I think of Brin. He hasn't
                      > written a regular novel since Kiln People, which was about 6 years ago...and
                      > his last graphic novel was a year after that.
                      >
                      > Is it fair to say that, while he will continue to write short fiction, the
                      > probability of a new novel is exponentially decaying, or will there be new
                      > novels?
                      ...

                      Dan--

                      Not that I've read it yet, but your sense is
                      that _Sky Horizon_ doesn't count?

                      http://www.amazon.com/dp/159606109X?tag=davidbrinsoff-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=159606109X&adid=18VPX1PC1EP4RMZ75NCZ&

                      Once we got our definitions straight, I'd be
                      prepared to bet there'll be a new
                      (sole-author, adult) novel within 5 years.

                      ---David


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                    • David Hobby
                      Charlie Bell wrote: ... Cheater! ... Gorilla my dreams, maru _______________________________________________
                      Message 10 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                        Charlie Bell wrote:
                        ...
                        > We could find out through the magic of actually asking someone who might
                        > know. Say, himself? :)

                        Cheater!

                        ---David

                        Gorilla my dreams, maru

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                      • Charlie Bell
                        ... I prefer to think of it as a shortcut to enlightenment... Charlie _______________________________________________
                        Message 11 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                          On 09/05/2009, at 11:26 AM, David Hobby wrote:

                          > Charlie Bell wrote:
                          > ...
                          >> We could find out through the magic of actually asking someone who
                          >> might know. Say, himself? :)
                          >
                          > Cheater!

                          I prefer to think of it as a shortcut to enlightenment...

                          Charlie

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                        • Medievalbk@aol.com
                          In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:10:49 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dsummersminet@comcast.net writes: I ve got a question that I think about when I think of
                          Message 12 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                            In a message dated 5/8/2009 6:10:49 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dsummersminet@... writes:
                            I've got a question that I think about when I think of Brin.  He hasn't
                            written a regular novel since Kiln People, which was about 6 years ago...and
                            his last graphic novel was a year after that.

                            Is it fair to say that, while he will continue to write short fiction, the
                            probability of a new novel is exponentially decaying, or will there be new
                            novels?

                            Dan M. 


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                            You mean Uplift novels.
                             
                            Dr. Brin is in the marketing stage for his new close (to present)
                            future history.
                             
                            Personally, I've done everything I can to try to kick him back into
                            Uplift mode. Nothing has worked.
                             
                            (There was a note somewhere that he has a humor Uplift short
                            story in the works.)
                             
                            A return to Jijo was his original intention, as mentioned in
                            the revised issue of GURPS Uplift. I don't think that's still
                            valid. Fans want a return to the main civilization.
                             
                            So what next?
                             
                            The obvious desire of every reader is to see Gill and Tom
                            together again.
                             
                            Not yet, I think.
                             
                            At least not in just one novel. That'd be advancing too
                            far too quickly.
                             
                            And there are several novel ideas that don't even
                            advance in time.
                             
                            The Brothers of the Night on Calafia.
                            The "true" history of how we got Calafia.
                            The Hoon escape of 2000 years ago.
                             
                            And my favorite:
                             
                            Earth from the Garthling Uplift Ceremony to
                            Streaker's arrival.
                             
                            Now for someone who's looking for hints as to
                            what will happen after Streaker's return, go
                            reread Contacting Aliens. Too much detail was
                            given away there if one actually goes looking
                            for it.
                             
                            And I've suggested to Dr. Brin a novel based upon
                            the Rousit.
                             
                            Anybody remember the Rousit? They got left out
                            of Contacting Aliens.
                             
                            William Taylor
                             
                            Name the ship piloted by Bugs Bunny:
                             
                             
                            Whatta Maru
                          • Wayne Eddy
                            ... Clifford D Simak uplifted dogs years earlier, so it was probably a bit old hat. I always thought that elephants would make the most sense as an uplift
                            Message 13 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                              > Seems like a lot of work to me.
                              > Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other
                              > species that did get uplifted.
                              > I would think Swines would be easier.
                              >
                              > xponent
                              > When Swines Flew Maru
                              > rob

                              Clifford D Simak uplifted dogs years earlier, so it was probably a bit old
                              hat.

                              I always thought that elephants would make the most sense as an uplift
                              candidate. They're already very intelligent & as a bonus they have a
                              manipulative organ. I guess uplifting chimps first makes sense, but all you
                              really get in the end is a hairy human.

                              Regards,

                              Wayne.


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                            • Charlie Bell
                              ... And we have those already. They re called Greeks . Charlie. Or They re Called Charlie Maru _______________________________________________
                              Message 14 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                                On 09/05/2009, at 11:49 AM, Wayne Eddy wrote:

                                >> Seems like a lot of work to me.
                                >> Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to
                                >> other species that did get uplifted.
                                >> I would think Swines would be easier.
                                >>
                                >> xponent
                                >> When Swines Flew Maru
                                >> rob
                                >
                                > Clifford D Simak uplifted dogs years earlier, so it was probably a
                                > bit old hat.
                                >
                                > I always thought that elephants would make the most sense as an
                                > uplift candidate. They're already very intelligent & as a bonus
                                > they have a manipulative organ. I guess uplifting chimps first
                                > makes sense, but all you really get in the end is a hairy human.

                                And we have those already. They're called "Greeks".

                                Charlie.
                                Or They're Called "Charlie" Maru

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                              • Wayne Eddy
                                I d love to find out what happened to Tom, Toshio, Dennie, Keepiru, etc. I remember reading the short story Lung Fish and thinking that the crew of the
                                Message 15 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                                  I'd love to find out what happened to Tom, Toshio, Dennie, Keepiru, etc.
                                  I remember reading the short story "Lung Fish" and thinking that the crew of the lifeboat might end up finding a dilapidated outpost of a robotic civilization, even before machine intelligences were mentioned in the uplift books.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:49 AM
                                  Subject: Re: New Uplift Universe question....

                                  You mean Uplift novels.
                                   
                                  Dr. Brin is in the marketing stage for his new close (to present)
                                  future history.
                                   
                                  Personally, I've done everything I can to try to kick him back into
                                  Uplift mode. Nothing has worked.
                                   
                                  (There was a note somewhere that he has a humor Uplift short
                                  story in the works.)
                                   
                                  A return to Jijo was his original intention, as mentioned in
                                  the revised issue of GURPS Uplift. I don't think that's still
                                  valid. Fans want a return to the main civilization.
                                   
                                  So what next?
                                   
                                  The obvious desire of every reader is to see Gill and Tom
                                  together again.
                                   
                                  Not yet, I think.
                                   
                                  At least not in just one novel. That'd be advancing too
                                  far too quickly.
                                   
                                  And there are several novel ideas that don't even
                                  advance in time.
                                   
                                  The Brothers of the Night on Calafia.
                                  The "true" history of how we got Calafia.
                                  The Hoon escape of 2000 years ago.
                                   
                                  And my favorite:
                                   
                                  Earth from the Garthling Uplift Ceremony to
                                  Streaker's arrival.
                                   
                                  Now for someone who's looking for hints as to
                                  what will happen after Streaker's return, go
                                  reread Contacting Aliens. Too much detail was
                                  given away there if one actually goes looking
                                  for it.
                                   
                                  And I've suggested to Dr. Brin a novel based upon
                                  the Rousit.
                                   
                                  Anybody remember the Rousit? They got left out
                                  of Contacting Aliens.
                                   
                                  William Taylor
                                   
                                  Name the ship piloted by Bugs Bunny:
                                   
                                   
                                  Whatta Maru
                                • Pat Mathews
                                  What if they should get the flu? http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ ... _______________________________________________
                                  Message 16 of 30 , May 8, 2009
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                                    What if they should get the flu?

                                    http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/





                                    > From: rceeberger@...
                                    >
                                    > Seems like a lot of work to me.
                                    > Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other species that did get uplifted.
                                    > I would think Swines would be easier.
                                    >
                                    > xponent
                                    > When Swines Flew Maru
                                    > rob
                                    >
                                    > _______________________________________________
                                    > http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
                                    >
                                  • Matt Grimaldi
                                    continuing the discussion... ... I remember they were mentioned either in _The_Uplift_War_ or one of the short stories. There WAS a program to uplift dogs,
                                    Message 17 of 30 , May 9, 2009
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                                      continuing the discussion...

                                      On 09/05/2009, at 8:30 AM, Rceeberger wrote:
                                      > Seems like a lot of work to me.
                                      > Dogs are just not that bright to begin with, at least compared to other species that did get uplifted.
                                      > I would think Swines would be easier.

                                      I remember they were mentioned either in _The_Uplift_War_ or one of the short stories. There WAS a program to uplift dogs, but despite promising early results, they either gave up or had not gotten far enough before the galactics imposed their requirement that Earthclan not uplift any more species. There was also something about it taking far, far too long for the dogs to understand doorknobs.

                                      -- Matt

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                                    • Alberto Monteiro
                                      ... If I correctly interpret _Heaven s Reach_, the skiff with (at least) Tom and (most likely) Keepiru went through E-Level and imprinted it with an image of
                                      Message 18 of 30 , May 11, 2009
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                                        Wayne Eddy wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I'd love to find out what happened to Tom, Toshio, Dennie, Keepiru, etc.
                                        >
                                        If I correctly interpret _Heaven's Reach_, the skiff with (at least) Tom
                                        and (most likely) Keepiru went through E-Level and imprinted it with
                                        an image of _Tom's child bedroom_.

                                        Alberto Monteiro (feeling tempted to add "Brin:"... but no, that's
                                        spoiling the fun of outguessing Him)


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                                      • Leonard Matusik
                                        *wormhole* Ah ..Wikipedia.. of course .. thank you sir...   ....Given our long history together... and at least the triumph of unbridled sentiment over Logic;
                                        Message 19 of 30 , May 12, 2009
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                                          *wormhole*
                                          Ah ..Wikipedia.. of course .. thank you sir...
                                           
                                          ...Given our long history together... and at least the triumph of unbridled sentiment over Logic; canine uplift  would seem inevitable....
                                           
                                          I'd like to see someone re-write "The of Lives of the Monster Dogs" ... premise...   without the top hats and cybernetics..  from a more Anti-Human Cultural standpoint.. -leonard
                                           


                                          --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Nick Arnett <nick.arnett@...> wrote:

                                          From: Nick Arnett <nick.arnett@...>
                                          Subject: Re: Uplift Universe question....
                                          To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" <brin-l@...>
                                          Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 11:22 AM



                                          On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Leonard Matusik <nanotreasures@...> wrote:
                                          ... though the initial Uplift of Earth was a rogue undertaking... accomplished by Wolflings far removed from the conventional wisdom of the Galactic Community... and that term 'Wolfling'... what did Brin mean by that?
                                          (...and did the Tibrini represent Baloo the Bear?.....   lmao/tiny...)
                                           
                                          I imagine the Chimps of the Uplift universe were heavily reg/bonobo hybrids.. esp considering the scene in the chimp bar...

                                          According to Wikipedia (a reliable source for over 200 years, according to Wikipedia):

                                          "Dogs have been mentioned as a possible client of Humanity in several books, but their final adoption has not been confirmed." 


                                          Nick

                                          -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

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                                        • Chaton Jean-Marc
                                          * Alberto Monteiro [Fri, 08/05/2009 at 14:18 -0200] ... Is it my faulting memory, I ve read somewhere (Sundiver ??) that humans tried to uplift dogs but it
                                          Message 20 of 30 , May 26, 2009
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                                            * Alberto Monteiro [Fri, 08/05/2009 at 14:18 -0200]
                                            > Dogs, elephants, and a few other animals are explicitly mentioned
                                            > as pre-sapient candidates that Earthclan is forbidden to uplift -
                                            > two clients are too much for even an elder galactic race.

                                            Is it my faulting memory, I've read somewhere (Sundiver ??) that humans
                                            tried to uplift dogs but it failed because dogs turned into
                                            contemplation and melancholy. Or my brain is making connexions with some
                                            other work.

                                            --
                                            Jean-Marc Chaton

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                                          • David Hobby
                                            ... Chaton-- I think there was a little fragment of a parody of the Uplift Books, by David himself, called Gorilla my dreams . (Yes, there were puns.) This
                                            Message 21 of 30 , May 28, 2009
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                                              Chaton Jean-Marc wrote:
                                              > * Alberto Monteiro [Fri, 08/05/2009 at 14:18 -0200]
                                              >> Dogs, elephants, and a few other animals are explicitly mentioned
                                              >> as pre-sapient candidates that Earthclan is forbidden to uplift -
                                              >> two clients are too much for even an elder galactic race.
                                              >
                                              > Is it my faulting memory, I've read somewhere (Sundiver ??) that humans
                                              > tried to uplift dogs but it failed because dogs turned into
                                              > contemplation and melancholy. Or my brain is making connexions with some
                                              > other work.

                                              Chaton--

                                              I think there was a little fragment of a
                                              parody of the Uplift Books, by David himself,
                                              called "Gorilla my dreams". (Yes, there were
                                              puns.)

                                              This seems to be a link:
                                              http://baens-universe.com/articles/Gorilla_My_Dreams

                                              And here's the quote I remembered:
                                              > Next came the habitat of talking neo-dogs, a breed that had been
                                              > under modification for centuries, and recently, at long last, had
                                              > mastered the deep mystery of door knobs, only to discover that the
                                              > devices were being replaced in most homes by galactic technology
                                              > psionic clasps. That tragic irony appeared to have broken the
                                              > species' collective spirit. Mostly, neo-dogs just lay around
                                              > nowadays, whining, licking themselves, and snapping vicious,
                                              > Chestertonian insults at the ankles of anyone who unwarily passed
                                              > close.

                                              Is this it, or were you thinking of something else?

                                              ---David

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                                            • jcnbulk@gmail.com
                                              * David Hobby [Thu, 28/05/2009 at 20:38 -0400] ... Exactly, it s it ! Thanks -- Jean-Marc Chaton _______________________________________________
                                              Message 22 of 30 , May 30, 2009
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                                                * David Hobby [Thu, 28/05/2009 at 20:38 -0400]
                                                > Chaton Jean-Marc wrote:
                                                >> * Alberto Monteiro [Fri, 08/05/2009 at 14:18 -0200]
                                                >>> Dogs, elephants, and a few other animals are explicitly mentioned
                                                >>> as pre-sapient candidates that Earthclan is forbidden to uplift -
                                                >>> two clients are too much for even an elder galactic race.
                                                >>
                                                >> Is it my faulting memory, I've read somewhere (Sundiver ??) that humans
                                                >> tried to uplift dogs but it failed because dogs turned into
                                                >> contemplation and melancholy. Or my brain is making connexions with some
                                                >> other work.
                                                >
                                                > Chaton--
                                                >
                                                > I think there was a little fragment of a
                                                > parody of the Uplift Books, by David himself,
                                                > called "Gorilla my dreams". (Yes, there were
                                                > puns.)
                                                >
                                                > This seems to be a link:
                                                > http://baens-universe.com/articles/Gorilla_My_Dreams
                                                >
                                                > And here's the quote I remembered:
                                                >> Next came the habitat of talking neo-dogs, a breed that had been
                                                >> under modification for centuries, and recently, at long last, had
                                                >> mastered the deep mystery of door knobs, only to discover that the
                                                >> devices were being replaced in most homes by galactic technology
                                                >> psionic clasps. That tragic irony appeared to have broken the
                                                >> species' collective spirit. Mostly, neo-dogs just lay around
                                                >> nowadays, whining, licking themselves, and snapping vicious,
                                                >> Chestertonian insults at the ankles of anyone who unwarily passed
                                                >> close.
                                                >
                                                > Is this it, or were you thinking of something else?
                                                >
                                                > ---David

                                                Exactly, it's it !
                                                Thanks


                                                --
                                                Jean-Marc Chaton

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