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Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing week!~)

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  • Doug Pensinger
    ... Not even if they asked and you told them? Doug _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 2, 2008
      John Williams wrote:

      > 1) Why trust the government with measuring something as abstract as
      > happiness, if it can be measured at all? I don't think I'd trust even my
      > closest friends and family to measure my "happiness".

      Not even if they asked and you told them?

      Doug
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    • John Williams
      ... How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10? No, I don t think I d trust my answers on that. Compared to what? Myself in the past? That would be hard to judge.
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 3, 2008
        > Not even if they asked and you told them?

        How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10? No, I don't think
        I'd trust my answers on that. Compared to what? Myself
        in the past? That would be hard to judge. Other people I
        know? Even worse (how do I know how happy they are?).
        And how to know how much of the "happiness" is due to
        the government and how much is the result of other
        causes?
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      • Wayne Eddy
        From: John Williams To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:18 AM
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 3, 2008
          From: "John Williams" <jwilliams4200@...>
          To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" <brin-l@...>
          Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:18 AM
          Subject: Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing
          week!~)


          >> Not even if they asked and you told them?
          >
          > How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10? No, I don't think
          > I'd trust my answers on that. Compared to what? Myself
          > in the past? That would be hard to judge. Other people I
          > know? Even worse (how do I know how happy they are?).
          > And how to know how much of the "happiness" is due to
          > the government and how much is the result of other
          > causes?

          Surely you would be happier in a juristiction with a constitution that
          forbade government involvement in those activitiess you believe to be much
          better run by the private sector?

          Surely if you were aware that you were being poled on your happiness in
          order to assess whether the existing constitution was to be retained or
          replaced by one that encouraged wild government spending, you (and all right
          minded citizens) would score themselves 10 out of 10 for hapiness to avoid
          the change?

          Regards,

          Wayne.

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        • Ronn! Blankenship
          ... So what do you do if the present system is badly flawed but the only proposed alternative does not seem any better? (e.g., the named in the previous
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 3, 2008
            At 02:26 PM Monday 11/3/2008, Wayne Eddy wrote:
            >From: "John Williams" <jwilliams4200@...>
            >To: "Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion" <brin-l@...>
            >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:18 AM
            >Subject: Re: Democracy (was Health Care / The same damn topic all f-ing
            >week!~)
            >
            >
            > >> Not even if they asked and you told them?
            > >
            > > How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10? No, I don't think
            > > I'd trust my answers on that. Compared to what? Myself
            > > in the past? That would be hard to judge. Other people I
            > > know? Even worse (how do I know how happy they are?).
            > > And how to know how much of the "happiness" is due to
            > > the government and how much is the result of other
            > > causes?
            >
            >Surely you would be happier in a juristiction with a constitution that
            >forbade government involvement in those activitiess you believe to be much
            >better run by the private sector?
            >
            >Surely if you were aware that you were being poled on your happiness in
            >order to assess whether the existing constitution was to be retained or
            >replaced by one that encouraged wild government spending, you (and all right
            >minded citizens) would score themselves 10 out of 10 for hapiness to avoid
            >the change?S



            So what do you do if the present system is badly flawed but the only
            proposed alternative does not seem any better?

            (e.g., the named in the previous subject line)


            . . . ronn! :)



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          • Doug Pensinger
            ... If you re talking about heath care, maybe having tried the one system and pretty much universally come to the conclusion that it sucks, I d say its time to
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 3, 2008
              Ronn! wrote:

              > So what do you do if the present system is badly flawed but the only
              > proposed alternative does not seem any better?
              >
              > (e.g., the named in the previous subject line)

              If you're talking about heath care, maybe having tried the one system
              and pretty much universally come to the conclusion that it sucks, I'd
              say its time to try something else. We pay 24% more per capita (2003)
              than anyone other country and not only isn't our care the best; we
              don't even cover 1 of every 6 people in the country. We pay much
              higher administrative costs (and _not_ mostly for lawyers), more for
              medicine (even though we take less) and when one of the 40 million
              uninsured get sick they have to wait till they're so ill that they end
              up in the emergency room where care is much more expensive.

              The alternative might not seem any better, but for the money I'm
              pretty sure it couldn't be much worse, and I think its high time we
              try something else.

              Doug
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            • Doug Pensinger
              John Williams ... Why would it have to be restricted to a numerical scale? Couldn t you be polled on a range of issues to determine where the government was
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 3, 2008
                John Williams

                > How happy are you on a scale of 1 to 10? No, I don't think
                > I'd trust my answers on that. Compared to what? Myself
                > in the past? That would be hard to judge. Other people I
                > know? Even worse (how do I know how happy they are?).
                > And how to know how much of the "happiness" is due to
                > the government and how much is the result of other
                > causes?

                Why would it have to be restricted to a numerical scale? Couldn't you
                be polled on a range of issues to determine where the government was
                succeeding and where it wasn't?

                Doug
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              • John Williams
                ... Your experimental system is highly inefficient. Don t you think it would be much better to conduct a large series of trials on various systems in parallel?
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 4, 2008
                  On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Doug Pensinger <brighto@...> wrote:
                  > The alternative might not seem any better, but for the money I'm
                  > pretty sure it couldn't be much worse, and I think its high time we
                  > try something else.

                  Your experimental system is highly inefficient. Don't you think it
                  would be much better to conduct a large series of trials on various
                  systems in parallel?
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                • John Williams
                  ... Did you read the original post? A decision is made based on aggregate happiness. How do you do it non-numerically?
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 4, 2008
                    On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Doug Pensinger <brighto@...> wrote:
                    > Why would it have to be restricted to a numerical scale? Couldn't you
                    > be polled on a range of issues to determine where the government was
                    > succeeding and where it wasn't?

                    Did you read the original post? A decision is made based on aggregate
                    happiness. How do you do it non-numerically?
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