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Re: Dazed and Confused

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  • mhbowes11
    I would love to see those deep clades done but I understand the financial constraints many may feel. I am envious of those surname groups that have a General
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 6, 2009
      I would love to see those deep clades done but I understand the financial constraints
      many may feel. I am envious of those surname groups that have a General Fund of
      donated monies participants can use to join or order further tests. I suppose with less
      common surnames it can just take a little longer for a project to grow, but I am convinced
      we will continue to over time. The upside is that I'll never have to juggle many hundreds
      of participants such as with a name like Smith.

      I have also considered the possibility that our surname variants in Ireland all come from
      elsewhere. The sources tying the name to O'Buadaigh just don't give me enough
      confidence on their face because they are secondary sources and don't mention the
      primary for verification. My guess is that it it is supposition or a story passed down. Of
      course many stories passed down are actually true, but then many others are not. That's
      where the DNA study can come in so useful, as you know. Actually, I think it's possible in
      the Cork and western Ireland areas we may more likely find some original Gaels just due
      to percentages of population distributions. We have no participants, to our knowledge,
      who come from these areas, So at this point in the project we may be somewhat more
      likely to pick Bowes "et. al." from elsewhere.

      --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@...> wrote:
      >
      > Adding to the challenges of ever fully understanding the cultural,
      > ethnic and geographical associations of those Bowes in Ireland
      > identified as being R1b, we have the complication presented by the
      > Clade known as R1b1b2a1
      >
      > "U106 or S21--R1b1c9--R1b1b2g--R1b1b2a1 - R1bSTR22Frisian ┬ľoriginally
      > known as `Frisian' Invader marker, new research suggests the majority
      > are more generally Germanic-likely North/West European/Netherlands in
      > origin with two 'hotspots' in the Netherlands and western Austria.
      > The large British Isles pop. is likely Germanic invasion legacy-
      > U106/S21 is estimated to be found in about 25% of European ancestry
      > men of the R1b-M269 haplogroup. This makes it the most common
      > subclade of R1b-M269"
      >
      > Unless Irish 'Bowes' have had a deep clade test to confirm their
      > Haplotype then some maybe under the impression that being part of the
      > R1b/R1b1b2 group they are derived from 'Celtic' or Gaelic roots, when
      > in fact their origins may lie in Frisia/NW Germany.
      >
      > I am beginning to wonder if there are any Bowes/Bowe whose ancient
      > ancestry is Gaelic Irish.
      >
    • Jeff
      We lack detailed data and as you say that may arise with time and more participants, meanwhile efforts to clarify what knowledge we do have is progressing I
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 6, 2009
        We lack detailed data and as you say that may arise with time and
        more participants, meanwhile efforts to clarify what knowledge we do
        have is progressing I think. For my part it would seem that I may
        have some association with R1bSTR26, although not confirmed by deep-
        clade testing, my DYS values appear to lead in that direction. If so
        this is interesting as that group is defined by an Irish-Scots
        cluster that may well have historic connections with the Dal Riada.
        This raises some fascinating questions, not least as to the origins
        of my own family name. Should this be given any further gravitas it
        may well support the possibility that there did indeed exist a
        distinct name of O'Buadhaigh

        --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I would love to see those deep clades done but I understand the
        financial constraints
        > many may feel. I am envious of those surname groups that have a
        General Fund of
        > donated monies participants can use to join or order further tests.
        I suppose with less
        > common surnames it can just take a little longer for a project to
        grow, but I am convinced
        > we will continue to over time. The upside is that I'll never have
        to juggle many hundreds
        > of participants such as with a name like Smith.
        >
        > I have also considered the possibility that our surname variants in
        Ireland all come from
        > elsewhere. The sources tying the name to O'Buadaigh just don't give
        me enough
        > confidence on their face because they are secondary sources and
        don't mention the
        > primary for verification. My guess is that it it is supposition or
        a story passed down. Of
        > course many stories passed down are actually true, but then many
        others are not. That's
        > where the DNA study can come in so useful, as you know. Actually, I
        think it's possible in
        > the Cork and western Ireland areas we may more likely find some
        original Gaels just due
        > to percentages of population distributions. We have no
        participants, to our knowledge,
        > who come from these areas, So at this point in the project we may
        be somewhat more
        > likely to pick Bowes "et. al." from elsewhere.
        >
        > --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Adding to the challenges of ever fully understanding the
        cultural,
        > > ethnic and geographical associations of those Bowes in Ireland
        > > identified as being R1b, we have the complication presented by
        the
        > > Clade known as R1b1b2a1
        > >
        > > "U106 or S21--R1b1c9--R1b1b2g--R1b1b2a1 - R1bSTR22Frisian ┬ľ
        originally
        > > known as `Frisian' Invader marker, new research suggests the
        majority
        > > are more generally Germanic-likely North/West
        European/Netherlands in
        > > origin with two 'hotspots' in the Netherlands and western
        Austria.
        > > The large British Isles pop. is likely Germanic invasion legacy-
        > > U106/S21 is estimated to be found in about 25% of European
        ancestry
        > > men of the R1b-M269 haplogroup. This makes it the most common
        > > subclade of R1b-M269"
        > >
        > > Unless Irish 'Bowes' have had a deep clade test to confirm their
        > > Haplotype then some maybe under the impression that being part of
        the
        > > R1b/R1b1b2 group they are derived from 'Celtic' or Gaelic roots,
        when
        > > in fact their origins may lie in Frisia/NW Germany.
        > >
        > > I am beginning to wonder if there are any Bowes/Bowe whose
        ancient
        > > ancestry is Gaelic Irish.
        > >
        >
      • mhbowes11
        Consulting my admin page, your L21 results are due on the 12th. I hope they are helpful, but I fear that if you nail down your personal story I will lose you
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 6, 2009
          Consulting my admin page, your L21 results are due on the 12th. I hope they are helpful,
          but I fear that if you nail down your personal story I will lose you as such a fine contributor
          on all things Bowes! I can't expect you to want to continue researching matters related
          more widely to the Bowes surname if you identify your roots, but you certainly are helpful
          as long as you're involved!

          What's the connection between Dal Riada and O'Buadhaigh?

          Funny, I guess I never questioned that there existed an O'Buadhaigh, just whether or not
          any Bowes or variant lineages stem from that individual.

          --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > We lack detailed data and as you say that may arise with time and
          > more participants, meanwhile efforts to clarify what knowledge we do
          > have is progressing I think. For my part it would seem that I may
          > have some association with R1bSTR26, although not confirmed by deep-
          > clade testing, my DYS values appear to lead in that direction. If so
          > this is interesting as that group is defined by an Irish-Scots
          > cluster that may well have historic connections with the Dal Riada.
          > This raises some fascinating questions, not least as to the origins
          > of my own family name. Should this be given any further gravitas it
          > may well support the possibility that there did indeed exist a
          > distinct name of O'Buadhaigh
          >
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