Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Dazed and Confused

Expand Messages
  • Jeff
    Adding to the challenges of ever fully understanding the cultural, ethnic and geographical associations of those Bowes in Ireland identified as being R1b, we
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 5, 2009
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Adding to the challenges of ever fully understanding the cultural,
      ethnic and geographical associations of those Bowes in Ireland
      identified as being R1b, we have the complication presented by the
      Clade known as R1b1b2a1

      "U106 or S21--R1b1c9--R1b1b2g--R1b1b2a1 - R1bSTR22Frisian ┬ľoriginally
      known as `Frisian' Invader marker, new research suggests the majority
      are more generally Germanic-likely North/West European/Netherlands in
      origin with two 'hotspots' in the Netherlands and western Austria.
      The large British Isles pop. is likely Germanic invasion legacy-
      U106/S21 is estimated to be found in about 25% of European ancestry
      men of the R1b-M269 haplogroup. This makes it the most common
      subclade of R1b-M269"

      Unless Irish 'Bowes' have had a deep clade test to confirm their
      Haplotype then some maybe under the impression that being part of the
      R1b/R1b1b2 group they are derived from 'Celtic' or Gaelic roots, when
      in fact their origins may lie in Frisia/NW Germany.

      I am beginning to wonder if there are any Bowes/Bowe whose ancient
      ancestry is Gaelic Irish.
    • mhbowes11
      I would love to see those deep clades done but I understand the financial constraints many may feel. I am envious of those surname groups that have a General
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 6, 2009
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        I would love to see those deep clades done but I understand the financial constraints
        many may feel. I am envious of those surname groups that have a General Fund of
        donated monies participants can use to join or order further tests. I suppose with less
        common surnames it can just take a little longer for a project to grow, but I am convinced
        we will continue to over time. The upside is that I'll never have to juggle many hundreds
        of participants such as with a name like Smith.

        I have also considered the possibility that our surname variants in Ireland all come from
        elsewhere. The sources tying the name to O'Buadaigh just don't give me enough
        confidence on their face because they are secondary sources and don't mention the
        primary for verification. My guess is that it it is supposition or a story passed down. Of
        course many stories passed down are actually true, but then many others are not. That's
        where the DNA study can come in so useful, as you know. Actually, I think it's possible in
        the Cork and western Ireland areas we may more likely find some original Gaels just due
        to percentages of population distributions. We have no participants, to our knowledge,
        who come from these areas, So at this point in the project we may be somewhat more
        likely to pick Bowes "et. al." from elsewhere.

        --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > Adding to the challenges of ever fully understanding the cultural,
        > ethnic and geographical associations of those Bowes in Ireland
        > identified as being R1b, we have the complication presented by the
        > Clade known as R1b1b2a1
        >
        > "U106 or S21--R1b1c9--R1b1b2g--R1b1b2a1 - R1bSTR22Frisian ┬ľoriginally
        > known as `Frisian' Invader marker, new research suggests the majority
        > are more generally Germanic-likely North/West European/Netherlands in
        > origin with two 'hotspots' in the Netherlands and western Austria.
        > The large British Isles pop. is likely Germanic invasion legacy-
        > U106/S21 is estimated to be found in about 25% of European ancestry
        > men of the R1b-M269 haplogroup. This makes it the most common
        > subclade of R1b-M269"
        >
        > Unless Irish 'Bowes' have had a deep clade test to confirm their
        > Haplotype then some maybe under the impression that being part of the
        > R1b/R1b1b2 group they are derived from 'Celtic' or Gaelic roots, when
        > in fact their origins may lie in Frisia/NW Germany.
        >
        > I am beginning to wonder if there are any Bowes/Bowe whose ancient
        > ancestry is Gaelic Irish.
        >
      • Jeff
        We lack detailed data and as you say that may arise with time and more participants, meanwhile efforts to clarify what knowledge we do have is progressing I
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 6, 2009
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          We lack detailed data and as you say that may arise with time and
          more participants, meanwhile efforts to clarify what knowledge we do
          have is progressing I think. For my part it would seem that I may
          have some association with R1bSTR26, although not confirmed by deep-
          clade testing, my DYS values appear to lead in that direction. If so
          this is interesting as that group is defined by an Irish-Scots
          cluster that may well have historic connections with the Dal Riada.
          This raises some fascinating questions, not least as to the origins
          of my own family name. Should this be given any further gravitas it
          may well support the possibility that there did indeed exist a
          distinct name of O'Buadhaigh

          --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <mhbowes@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I would love to see those deep clades done but I understand the
          financial constraints
          > many may feel. I am envious of those surname groups that have a
          General Fund of
          > donated monies participants can use to join or order further tests.
          I suppose with less
          > common surnames it can just take a little longer for a project to
          grow, but I am convinced
          > we will continue to over time. The upside is that I'll never have
          to juggle many hundreds
          > of participants such as with a name like Smith.
          >
          > I have also considered the possibility that our surname variants in
          Ireland all come from
          > elsewhere. The sources tying the name to O'Buadaigh just don't give
          me enough
          > confidence on their face because they are secondary sources and
          don't mention the
          > primary for verification. My guess is that it it is supposition or
          a story passed down. Of
          > course many stories passed down are actually true, but then many
          others are not. That's
          > where the DNA study can come in so useful, as you know. Actually, I
          think it's possible in
          > the Cork and western Ireland areas we may more likely find some
          original Gaels just due
          > to percentages of population distributions. We have no
          participants, to our knowledge,
          > who come from these areas, So at this point in the project we may
          be somewhat more
          > likely to pick Bowes "et. al." from elsewhere.
          >
          > --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Adding to the challenges of ever fully understanding the
          cultural,
          > > ethnic and geographical associations of those Bowes in Ireland
          > > identified as being R1b, we have the complication presented by
          the
          > > Clade known as R1b1b2a1
          > >
          > > "U106 or S21--R1b1c9--R1b1b2g--R1b1b2a1 - R1bSTR22Frisian ┬ľ
          originally
          > > known as `Frisian' Invader marker, new research suggests the
          majority
          > > are more generally Germanic-likely North/West
          European/Netherlands in
          > > origin with two 'hotspots' in the Netherlands and western
          Austria.
          > > The large British Isles pop. is likely Germanic invasion legacy-
          > > U106/S21 is estimated to be found in about 25% of European
          ancestry
          > > men of the R1b-M269 haplogroup. This makes it the most common
          > > subclade of R1b-M269"
          > >
          > > Unless Irish 'Bowes' have had a deep clade test to confirm their
          > > Haplotype then some maybe under the impression that being part of
          the
          > > R1b/R1b1b2 group they are derived from 'Celtic' or Gaelic roots,
          when
          > > in fact their origins may lie in Frisia/NW Germany.
          > >
          > > I am beginning to wonder if there are any Bowes/Bowe whose
          ancient
          > > ancestry is Gaelic Irish.
          > >
          >
        • mhbowes11
          Consulting my admin page, your L21 results are due on the 12th. I hope they are helpful, but I fear that if you nail down your personal story I will lose you
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 6, 2009
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Consulting my admin page, your L21 results are due on the 12th. I hope they are helpful,
            but I fear that if you nail down your personal story I will lose you as such a fine contributor
            on all things Bowes! I can't expect you to want to continue researching matters related
            more widely to the Bowes surname if you identify your roots, but you certainly are helpful
            as long as you're involved!

            What's the connection between Dal Riada and O'Buadhaigh?

            Funny, I guess I never questioned that there existed an O'Buadhaigh, just whether or not
            any Bowes or variant lineages stem from that individual.

            --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > We lack detailed data and as you say that may arise with time and
            > more participants, meanwhile efforts to clarify what knowledge we do
            > have is progressing I think. For my part it would seem that I may
            > have some association with R1bSTR26, although not confirmed by deep-
            > clade testing, my DYS values appear to lead in that direction. If so
            > this is interesting as that group is defined by an Irish-Scots
            > cluster that may well have historic connections with the Dal Riada.
            > This raises some fascinating questions, not least as to the origins
            > of my own family name. Should this be given any further gravitas it
            > may well support the possibility that there did indeed exist a
            > distinct name of O'Buadhaigh
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.