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Re: Bowes Origins in England

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  • mhbowes11
    ... Not at all. We re bound to have a few more along the way for whatever reasons, given the many related topics and ways of approaching them. ... I have
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 4, 2009
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      --- In bowesvariantsdna@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
      >
      > Martha,
      >
      > Apologies if my comments have generated any misunderstanding,

      Not at all. We're bound to have a few more along the way for whatever reasons, given the
      many related topics and ways of approaching them.

      > The name ... also has some, albeit less frequent,√ā¬†association with Norfolk in East
      >Anglia and Lancashire in North West England.

      I have thought this was probably mostly due to people of the surname spreading outward
      from the "core" locations you mention. Conceivably some could have adopted the name in
      or outside of the core area when surnames came along who had never been around the
      settlement of Bowes or genetically related to a Bowes family, for whatever unique reasons,
      but usually for some reason wanting an association with a family by that name. I read this
      sort of thing happened a lot in Ireland long ago and surmise it would have been the case
      in England too. In communications with a fella at the Bowes Museum some years back, he
      mentioned that some would take a name associated with an estate they worked on. Not
      necessarily vast estates of noblemen, but even smaller landholders who had help.

      > In addition we must not overlook the existence of the Bowe surname in England, which
      > may well have been recorded as Bowes, or been given an 's' to notify the person as
      >being the son of Bowe.

      Yes, and it makes me curious about the fact that the Bowe version was concentrated in
      Kilkenny, while Bowes more so in Dublin. My Bowe line from Kilkenny (learned it was Bowe
      before the emigrants made it Bowes in mid-1800s), and another Bowe from Ireland but
      doesn't know the county, are Anglo-Saxon (project subgroup Hg I1 Grp 3). There is
      another project member whose Bowes line is from Dublin who is R1b. It would be
      interesting to see where the haplogroups cluster in Ireland and by what name variant - to
      look for patterns. I'll have to see what else we have so far for that.

      I'd love to see more Bowe-s from Kilkenny area test and see if Anglo-Saxon rules or
      predominates as a related haplogroup-surnamevariant cluster there, or whether there are
      separate genetic Bowe lineages from there. This raises a slightly different question ...
      what is the origin of the Bowe surname in Ireland when the HG is Anglo-Saxon and
      assuming - given the dominance of this version in Kilkenny - it's not a case of Bowes with
      a dropped "s."? It may have nothing to do with the village of Bowes if all the early
      phonetics of the area end in "s" (I'll have to check your list again, but I think they all had
      the "s" sound at the end.

      And might some have taken the Bowe surname from some other river bend or arch where
      they lived when they took the surname?

      My brain power - what there is of it - is waning as a cold comes on again.

      Thanks for all the stimulation and patience. You've spent a lot of time on this, Jeff, and it
      shows. Martha
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