Re: [bowesgenealogy] Re: From Buadhaigh to Bowes
Martha, that's fine and appreciate your confidentiality of personal details not appearing there, Best wishes, Jeff
--- On Tue, 5/1/10, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: From Buadhaigh to Bowes
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 17:35Hi Jeff! I so enjoy your determination in the face of complexity! Thanks for posting it here. I had to read several times to wrap my brain around it, but I get it. Can I paste this to your subgroup page at the new website: http://www.bowesone namestudy. com/dna_project_ pages/participan ts/haplogroup_ r1b/r1b1b/ ireland_tipperar y_-_bowess/ I have been working to get info about the lines on all the subgroup pages. Some detail about your Tipperary ancestors and where they went would be god there too. I've been keeping participants' personal details out of those pages, unless they want their email included for visitors to contact them.
Also check out this subgroup page (my father is in this group) which also posits a hypothesis for relatedness to O'Buadhaigh: http://www.bowesone namestudy. com/dna_project_ pages/participan ts/haplogroup_ i/i1/i1_group_ 3/ Note the bold type under "Discussion. " I would paste this to your page showing your research with a mirror link back to this one.
One thing is clear. We need to try to get some Bogues from the Cork area to test. A match from any of our project lines to theirs would seem significant, since both surnames are supposed to be anglicizations of O'Buadhaigh. None of the participants in the Bogue surname study, or ours, are from the Cork area. Same scene with the Cronin surname, although they may already have some Cork Cronins represented in the Cronin study. I have a devil of a time getting people to participate when I "solicit" (gently speaking) their interest. More often than not, new participants join completely out of the blue to me.
--- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "bowes2000" <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
> How are you Frank?
> All the best for 2010
> The quest continues as to my own 'Bowe' origins/location. At this stage I'm coming to consider the Corca Laidhe connection relevant to my own folks, my DYS values were very kindly examined by Jim Cullen, who knows his genetic onions. He concludes that these suggest R1bSTR26 (S28/U152) linked to the continental Celts. Interestingly on the FTDNA site my ancestral origins have the following as highest percentages; Ireland 3.4 Switzerland 3.0, Scotland 2.2 and Wales 2.1 (with the value of 2 being significant and 4 highly significant in terms of family origins).
> Accoring to Jim Cullen's analysis using a Haplotype predictor and John McEwan's Modal database, my DYS markers point to Irish/Scottish subclades, indeed my particular values are very close to the Colla Uais modal haplotype. Given the connection of Colla Uais with the Ulaid/Dal Riata it got me looking into wider associations relating to the Dáirinne, later to be known as the Corca Laiodhe. The Dárinne are reported to have derived from the Darini of Ptolemy, and significantly for my research, been related to the Ulaid and Dál Riata of Ulster and Scotland. So there appears to be an Erainn connection running through the picture, and considering the association of the Ua Buadhaigh sept with West Cork and the Corca Laiodhe, my Irish/Scotish DYS values make sense, if viewed through an understanding that they may well reflect Erainn/Dáirinne origins.
> Curiously, I also came across one of the O'Driscolls' set of DYS values at YSearch, some of whom are close to my own, one even having the same double reloc value of 36 at CDYa/b. A common and possibly significant feature appears to be the value of 10 at DYS391, this is common to Scottish and some Irish, and I'm now wondering if this may be some Erainn indicator. Whatever the case, the O'Driscoll's are a prominent and historic Corca Laiodhe family, whose territory included the location of the Ua Buadhaigh (around the Castlehaven area). Families called O'Bowe were, later in history, recorded in Fermoy too, not too far from south west Tipperary where my own ancestors appear.
> If this speculation, reasoning and connectivity is sound it may well be that genetic evidence, in support of some of the Irish Bowe/Bowes/Bogue families, may be assembled that indicates such individuals have their beginnings with the Erainn/Corca Laiodhe.
> --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@> wrote:
> > .Hi Jeff, Nice to make contact,I have contacted the Bowes of Wexford , Kilkenny .
> > Tipperary , and Offaly [Awfly],to inveigle them to join, but to no avail..My family are in Waterford , mostly in the Butchering /Livestock trades, inthe past.Lived by exporting to England ,Invariably , Parnellite and Redmondites. Very prolific , 17 in my family , otherd with 11 and my younger brother 15, a gene of Nile of the Nine hostages.
> > Cheers for now. Where are you living ?
> > Frank Bowe
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Jeff <bowes2000@>
> > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 9:43:23
> > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: From Buadhaigh to Bowes
> > Just a thought if you do make it to Kew, a search within the area of
> > Elizabethan and later Plantations in Ireland would perhaps yield some
> > very useful material, particularly if focused upon County Wexford and
> > Kilkenny, as these are regions with a long connection and prevelance
> > of the 'Bowe' surname. Good luck..
> > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "bowe_f" <bowe_f@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The Records Offices at Kew , are situated in one of Londons most
> > > beutiful areas,and attached to Kew Gardens , I am often there.I will
> > > visit when nextin London, won't anticipate finding any records of
> > Bowe
> > > O'Buadaigh, though
> > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "Jeff" <bowes2000@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There are some records, but they are somewhat scattered and
> > official,
> > > > held in public records offices in Kew near London, possibly
> > Dublin or
> > > > Belfast has some too. Mostly used by academics I imagine.
> > > >
> > > > As to the name change from Buadhaigh to Bowe, Bowes, Boyce
> > (possibly)
> > > > Bow and Bogue the Anglicisation of Irish names took place most
> > > > vigorously in the 16/17th Century. Bearing in mind there may
> > already
> > > > have by that time been 'Bowes' from England or Scotland
> > > > having 'settled' in Ireland, and Gaelic-Bowes would have adopted
> > or
> > > > been recorded with more English sounding variants by that time.
> > > >
> > > > 16th & 17th Century Anglicized Irish Surnames from Woulfe
> > > >
> > > > O Boey 447 Ãƒ" Buad.aig. (Ãƒ" Buadhaigh)
> > > > O Bowe 447 Ãƒ" Buad.aig. (Ãƒ" Buadhaigh)
> > > > O Boye 447 Ãƒ" Buad.aig. (Ãƒ" Buadhaigh)
> > > > O Bwoy 447 Ãƒ" Buad.aig. (Ãƒ" Buadhaigh)
> > > > O Bowige 447 Ãƒ" Buad.aig. (Ãƒ" Buadhaigh)
> > > >
> > > > As you know there are other variations, these however in my view
> > > > appear most relevant to Bowe and Bowes.
> > > >
> > > > Postscript: the name O'Buadhaigh does appear in an early 15th
> > Century
> > > > source, The Book of Lecan, thus taking the name back in Ireland to
> > > > some antiquity, and suggesting even older beginnings
> > > >
> > >