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Re: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?

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  • Frank Bowe
    Corka accordong to story/legend was a male child hidden in some container when soldiers came seeking to kill the male child, a spark flew out of fire which was
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 3, 2009
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      Corka accordong to story/legend was a male child hidden in some container when soldiers came
      seeking to kill the male child, a spark flew out of fire which was purple , Corca means purple, and Laiodhe, has something to do with Oleary's or Donovan . I take it this Gang of Corca of the
      OLearys ,they were driven south by Dal Gais, who were connected and inhabited Tipperary and
      Limerick.There is too much to imagine its All fiction., a grain of truth must be assumed. The Penquin HIstorical History of The Vikings , and Cassels Atlas of World History by Doctor John
      Haywood, of Cambridge , states , Irish Tribes invaded Scotland and called themselves Scots.He
      is an acknowledged expert on the Dark Ages..
      I went to school with many O ' Sullivans, and never experience any that had not the prefix O , in fact to refer to them as Sullivan , one would have to be familar or gaging for a row , as  Cromwell
      sought to  make them conform by forcing them to drop the prefix O , meaning of , and Mac
      meaning son of, Corca probably gives its name to Cork. Corka I think had 11 sons , and another
      male 24 , so they were a prolific group , and no family Allowance.
       


      From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
      To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, 2 February, 2009 22:07:48
      Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?

      Thanks for the clarification. Whenever I've seen Corca Laiodhe mentioned, it's always with
      (S.W. Cork) after, and never made it clear it referred to a group of people, leading me for
      some time now to believe it was a place inhabited by some of the Eoghanacht, including
      the O'Buadaigh sept mentioned in the Eoghanacht Genealogies! In fact, I see now that
      MacLysaght's wording in "More Irish Families" (1960) is: "The sept was located in the
      Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork)...," not at all indicating they were part of the
      original Corca Laoidhe people. Anyway, I googled the "Book of Ballymote," which must be
      the earlier reference you mention, but can't find any mention online of it mentioning
      Buadaigh. I'm not doubting it does, but if you come across a specific mention I'd like to
      store it away.

      As to "O'Sulivans who had adopted the name 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first'
      name as we would now call it." ... I see now you were including the O'Buadaigh part as
      one of the first name examples, while I saw it as distinct since it is presented as a
      Sullivan line adopting it as a surname: "Maolodhar son of Sealbach had five sons ... Buadhach, from whom the Ui Buadaigh." That's not to say it's an accurate account of
      what happened or the origin of any Gaelic Bowe-s.

      --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Corca Laiodhe was a grouping of peoples living in a specifci geogtraphic region, ie: SW
      Cork, the O'Buadhaigh were linked with them long before the Irish Annals were
      composed and Woulfe arrived on the scene.
      >
      > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
      > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
      > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 3:10 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I think Corca Laiaodhe just refers to location. Our Files sections has the Eoghanacht
      > Genealogies in .doc format. I pulled this from the internet long ago, so can't verify it
      > detail by detail. O'Buadaigh falls in a "minor branch" of the O'Sullivans, so not sure why
      > Woulfe says they're not related.
      >
      > I have a thought of making a gedcom of this document that is a lot easier to track and
      > view reports from. Also thinking of starting a Family Tree DNA group specifically to
      study
      > the names in the Eoghanacht Genealogies and see if the anglicized surnames
      correspond
      > as they should by DNA. What better way to put the accuracy of this old text to the test
      > and to learn the DNA signatures of this group? Unfortunately I can think of far more
      > genealogy projects than I have time for and my hands are overfull. Do you think you'd
      be
      > interested in administering such a group at FTDNA Jeff?
      >
      > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
      > >
      > > Bang-on Frank
      > >  
      > > O'Sullivan's are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O'
      > Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca Laiaodhe.
      > >
      > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Frank Bowe <bowe_f@>
      > > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:43 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-
      eye.Its
      > from
      > > a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being
      carried
      > out.Vague I
      > > Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big
      Eoghans
      > tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans
      .A
      > son of
      > > this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air
      > wasnt flying
      > > then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over
      great
      > BRittain.
      > > The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary
      is
      > one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves
      > Scotsaccording to
      > > Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
      > >  
      > >  
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@yahoo. co.uk>
      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
      > > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
      > Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
      > 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
      > with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
      > >
      > > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
      > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
      > (gets
      > > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
      > > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
      > >
      > > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
      > >
      > > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
      > O'Donovan
      > > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
      > adopted
      > > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
      > >
      > > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for
      clarification
      > > some day.
      > >
      > > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their
      works
      > (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily
      of
      > works on
      > > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
      > Woulfe's
      > > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
      > difference.
      > > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
      > >
      >


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