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Re: [bowesgenealogy] Possible Vikings Named Buadach? Married into an O'Buadhaigh Line of Descent?

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  • Allen Bowes
    There are a few identifiable Norse names that have made the transition from obvious Scandinavian beginnings into an Gaelic version, O Buadhach/O Buadaigh is
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2009
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      There are a few identifiable Norse names that have made the transition from obvious Scandinavian beginnings into an Gaelic version, O'Buadhach/O'Buadaigh is not one of them. Sure they could have adopted a Gaelic name, several hundred years later, but so could an English, Welsh or Scottish settler of the 1600's! The question that begs to be asked, would that be likely?
      As discussed previously the tradition amongst Scandinavian peoples was to use predominently patriarchical names,  thus Gunnar-Son, Erik-Son etc. Plus try to imagine  what was an isolated and vulnerable Viking community in a sea of Gaelic culture, one imagines a seige mentality would prevail amongst a culture proud of its religion, language and traditions. Hardly a picture of cultural assimilation.
       
      I still feel that any Bowes in Ireland who seem to display a 'Scandinavian' genetic value should look to later Saxon (English) settlement in Ireland, bearing in mind it is almost impossible to differentiate between Danish, Saxon and Norwegian DYS values (the emerged from the same geographic regions with only three hundred years between them).
      --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
      From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
      Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Possible Vikings Named Buadach? Married into an O'Buadhaigh Line of Descent?
      To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 10:07 PM

      According to Woulfe's introduction, early Irish people attributed Irish names to some
      individual Norsemen. Under this scenario, a Norseman could have been called Buadach
      for "victorious" and later anglicized it. Another possibility is a Viking intermarrying with a
      brach of descent from the O'Buadhaigh sept and taking the name, then later anglicizing
      it ... These Viking/Irish intermarriages were fairly common. I read years ago of male
      settlers from other countries marrying into Irish families and taking the wife's Irish name,
      though Woulfe emphasizes the opposite - intermarriages where Irish gals took the Norse
      names. My understanding from earlier reading is that in that culture the emphasis wasn't
      on the name so much as the association it provided. It was a question of taking the name
      of the family that had the desired social connections, wealth, political alliances, etc.

      Woulfe says:

      "At the period of the Norse invasions, hereditary surnames ... were not yet in vogue, and
      whatever surnames were adopted at a later period by the Norsemen who settled down in
      Ireland were formed after the Irish fashion by prefixing O or Mac to the names or other
      designations of their ancestors. Meanwhile through intermarriages and other alliances of
      friendship with the Irish, they had been adopting Irish personal names [enter Buadach?]."
      p. xxiv

      "As a consequence of this interchange of names between the two nations, a name,
      whether Norse or Irish, was, at the period when surnames were being formed, [even that
      long ago] no sure indication of nationality, and for the same reason it is now impossible
      to say, judging merely from the surname, whether a family is of Irish or Norse descent." p. xxv

      http://books. google.com/ books?id= GBmV706lfVYC& printsec= frontcover# PPR25,M1


    • mhbowes11
      As far as the Settlement and Plantations explaining the presence of Scandinavian haplotypes in Ireland in our study, I also have no doubt this must ve played a
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 8, 2009
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        As far as the Settlement and Plantations explaining the presence of Scandinavian haplotypes in Ireland in our study, I also have no doubt this must've played a big part in people with our surnames coming to Ireland and is probably the first place to look. (Couldn't it also explain some participants with non-Scandinavian haplotypes who don't happen to be "native" Irish.) Although I wouldn't be ready to conclude that S&P is the only explanation possible, it may be the most common reason.

        In general, I like to keep all options on the table for a participant until there is evidence to rule them out, while using family history clues to guide research back in time for each participant. Of course the scarcity of records going back in time in Ireland doesn't help us out much.

        Some Bowe/s lineages in Ireland have Protestant ancestors there which strongly supports the settlement and plantations theory for them and makes it a great place to start. My family, with Scandinavian haplotype, appears in the Catholic registers in the late 1700s and was thoroughly and self-identified Irish. I have not seen anything as to whether many of the loyalists who came as part of the S&P converted to Christianity and became thoroughly Irish or not. I'm interested in anything anyone may have on this, because there is an apparent contradiction (or is there?) between the Scandinavian haplotype and Irish Catholic religion in the same family if they came to Ireland with loyalists.

        Your thoughts?

        --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:

        > I still feel that any Bowes in Ireland who seem to display a 'Scandinavian' genetic value should look to later Saxon (English) settlement in Ireland, bearing in mind it is almost impossible to differentiate between Danish, Saxon and Norwegian DYS values (the emerged from the same geographic regions with only three hundred years between them).
        >
      • mhbowes11
        I found something about this in MacLysaght s 1980 The Surnames of Ireland. In the introduction it says: The Cromwellian Settlement was different [from the
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 22, 2009
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          I found something about this in MacLysaght's 1980 The Surnames of Ireland. In the introduction it says:

          "The Cromwellian Settlement was different [from the plantations in Ulster ] because the immigrants introduced were widely scattered over the country. In this case they were for the most part eventually assimilated and became an integral part of the Irish nation. Generations of intermarriage with native Catholic Irish have made them, apart from a few landlord families, otherwise indistinguishable from their neighbours who bear Gaelic or Hiberno-Norman names."

          --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@...> wrote:

          >My family, with Scandinavian haplotype, appears in the Catholic registers in the late 1700s >and was thoroughly and self-identified Irish. I have not seen anything as to whether many >of the loyalists who came as part of the S&P converted to Christianity and became >thoroughly Irish or not. I'm interested in anything anyone may have on this, because there >is an apparent contradiction (or is there?) between the Scandinavian haplotype and Irish >Catholic religion in the same family if they came to Ireland with loyalists.
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