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To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?

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  • mhbowes11
    Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I m discovering how great our local library is (gets books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 1, 2009
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      Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is (gets
      books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
      libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.

      In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:

      "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and O'Donovan
      says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had adopted
      this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."

      Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
      some day.

      I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught's consist primarily of works on
      specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those), Woulfe's
      seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this difference.
      They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
    • Allen Bowes
      The O Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th Century references naming some O Sulivans who had adopted the name
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 1, 2009
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        The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name 'Buadhach/Budhaigh', almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.

        --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
        From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
        Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
        To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM

        Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is (gets
        books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
        libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.

        In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:

        "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and O'Donovan
        says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had adopted
        this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."

        Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
        some day.

        I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of works on
        specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those), Woulfe's
        seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this difference.
        They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.


      • Frank Bowe
        OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-eye.Its from a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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          OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-eye.Its from
          a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being carried out.Vague I
          Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big Eoghans tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans .A son of
          this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air wasnt flying
          then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over great BRittain.
          The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary is one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves Scotsaccording to
          Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
           
           

           


          From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...>
          To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
          Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?

          The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.

          --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
          From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
          Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
          To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM

          Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is (gets
          books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
          libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.

          In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:

          "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and O'Donovan
          says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had adopted
          this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."

          Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
          some day.

          I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of works on
          specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those), Woulfe's
          seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this difference.
          They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.



        • Allen Bowes
          Bang-on Frank   O Sullivan s are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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            Bang-on Frank
             
            O'Sullivan's are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O' Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca Laiaodhe.

            --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@...> wrote:
            From: Frank Bowe <bowe_f@...>
            Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
            To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:43 PM

            OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-eye.Its from
            a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being carried out.Vague I
            Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big Eoghans tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans .A son of
            this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air wasnt flying
            then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over great BRittain.
            The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary is one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves Scotsaccording to
            Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
             
             

             


            From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@yahoo. co.uk>
            To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
            Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?

            The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.

            --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
            From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
            Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
            To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM

            Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is (gets
            books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
            libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.

            In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:

            "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and O'Donovan
            says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had adopted
            this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."

            Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
            some day.

            I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of works on
            specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those), Woulfe's
            seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this difference.
            They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.




          • mhbowes11
            I think Corca Laiaodhe just refers to location. Our Files sections has the Eoghanacht Genealogies in .doc format. I pulled this from the internet long ago, so
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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              I think Corca Laiaodhe just refers to location. Our Files sections has the Eoghanacht
              Genealogies in .doc format. I pulled this from the internet long ago, so can't verify it
              detail by detail. O'Buadaigh falls in a "minor branch" of the O'Sullivans, so not sure why
              Woulfe says they're not related.

              I have a thought of making a gedcom of this document that is a lot easier to track and
              view reports from. Also thinking of starting a Family Tree DNA group specifically to study
              the names in the Eoghanacht Genealogies and see if the anglicized surnames correspond
              as they should by DNA. What better way to put the accuracy of this old text to the test
              and to learn the DNA signatures of this group? Unfortunately I can think of far more
              genealogy projects than I have time for and my hands are overfull. Do you think you'd be
              interested in administering such a group at FTDNA Jeff?

              --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
              >
              > Bang-on Frank
              >  
              > O'Sullivan's are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O'
              Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca Laiaodhe.
              >
              > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Frank Bowe <bowe_f@...>
              > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
              > To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:43 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-eye.Its
              from
              > a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being carried
              out.Vague I
              > Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big Eoghans
              tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans .A
              son of
              > this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air
              wasnt flying
              > then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over great
              BRittain.
              > The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary is
              one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves
              Scotsaccording to
              > Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
              >  
              >  
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@yahoo. co.uk>
              > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
              > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
              Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
              'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
              with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
              >
              > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
              >
              > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
              > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
              > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
              > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
              (gets
              > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
              > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
              >
              > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
              >
              > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
              O'Donovan
              > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
              adopted
              > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
              >
              > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
              > some day.
              >
              > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works
              (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of
              works on
              > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
              Woulfe's
              > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
              difference.
              > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
              >
            • mhbowes11
              You ll see in the Eoghanacht Genealogies file that there are a number of first name Buadachs, but also O Buadaigh specifically appears. ... Century
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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                You'll see in the Eoghanacht Genealogies file that there are a number of "first" name
                Buadachs, but also O'Buadaigh specifically appears.

                --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
                >
                > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
                Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
                'Buadhach/Budhaigh', almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
                with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
                >
                > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                > To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
                (gets
                > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
                > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
                >
                > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
                >
                > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
                O'Donovan
                > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
                adopted
                > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
                >
                > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
                > some day.
                >
                > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works
                (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of
                works on
                > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
                Woulfe's
                > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
                difference.
                > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
                >
              • Allen Bowes
                Corca Laiodhe was a grouping of peoples living in a specifci geogtraphic region, ie: SW Cork, the O Buadhaigh were linked with them long before the Irish
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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                  Corca Laiodhe was a grouping of peoples living in a specifci geogtraphic region, ie: SW Cork, the O'Buadhaigh were linked with them long before the Irish Annals were composed and Woulfe arrived on the scene.

                  --- On Mon, 2/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                  From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                  Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                  To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 3:10 PM

                  I think Corca Laiaodhe just refers to location. Our Files sections has the Eoghanacht
                  Genealogies in .doc format. I pulled this from the internet long ago, so can't verify it
                  detail by detail. O'Buadaigh falls in a "minor branch" of the O'Sullivans, so not sure why
                  Woulfe says they're not related.

                  I have a thought of making a gedcom of this document that is a lot easier to track and
                  view reports from. Also thinking of starting a Family Tree DNA group specifically to study
                  the names in the Eoghanacht Genealogies and see if the anglicized surnames correspond
                  as they should by DNA. What better way to put the accuracy of this old text to the test
                  and to learn the DNA signatures of this group? Unfortunately I can think of far more
                  genealogy projects than I have time for and my hands are overfull. Do you think you'd be
                  interested in administering such a group at FTDNA Jeff?

                  --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bang-on Frank
                  >  
                  > O'Sullivan's are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O'
                  Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca Laiaodhe.
                  >
                  > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Frank Bowe <bowe_f@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                  > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:43 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-eye.Its
                  from
                  > a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being carried
                  out.Vague I
                  > Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big Eoghans
                  tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans .A
                  son of
                  > this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air
                  wasnt flying
                  > then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over great
                  BRittain.
                  > The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary is
                  one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves
                  Scotsaccording to
                  > Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
                  >  
                  >  
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@yahoo. co.uk>
                  > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
                  > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
                  Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
                  'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
                  with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
                  >
                  > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
                  > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                  > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
                  (gets
                  > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
                  > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
                  >
                  > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
                  >
                  > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
                  O'Donovan
                  > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
                  adopted
                  > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
                  >
                  > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
                  > some day.
                  >
                  > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works
                  (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of
                  works on
                  > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
                  Woulfe's
                  > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
                  difference.
                  > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
                  >


                • Allen Bowes
                  Please re-reads my previous posting, the OSullivans may have adopted the name Buadhach/Buadhaigh as it conferred the name victorious champion, that does not
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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                    Please re-reads my previous posting, the OSullivans may have adopted the name Buadhach/Buadhaigh as it conferred the name 'victorious' champion, that does not mean per-se that the O'Buadaigh/Buadhach 'sept' were related to the O'Sullivans. As to the Irish Annals/ Eoghonact Chronicles, these were 17/18th Century interpretations, that failed to note that an earlier 15th Century specifically text links Buadhaigh with the Corca Laoidhe.
                    --- On Mon, 2/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                    From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                    Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                    To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 3:12 PM

                    You'll see in the Eoghanacht Genealogies file that there are a number of "first" name
                    Buadachs, but also O'Buadaigh specifically appears.

                    --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
                    Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
                    'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
                    with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
                    >
                    > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                    > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                    > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
                    (gets
                    > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
                    > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
                    >
                    > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
                    >
                    > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
                    O'Donovan
                    > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
                    adopted
                    > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
                    >
                    > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for clarification
                    > some day.
                    >
                    > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their works
                    (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily of
                    works on
                    > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
                    Woulfe's
                    > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
                    difference.
                    > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
                    >


                  • mhbowes11
                    Thanks for the clarification. Whenever I ve seen Corca Laiodhe mentioned, it s always with (S.W. Cork) after, and never made it clear it referred to a group of
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 2, 2009
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                      Thanks for the clarification. Whenever I've seen Corca Laiodhe mentioned, it's always with
                      (S.W. Cork) after, and never made it clear it referred to a group of people, leading me for
                      some time now to believe it was a place inhabited by some of the Eoghanacht, including
                      the O'Buadaigh sept mentioned in the Eoghanacht Genealogies! In fact, I see now that
                      MacLysaght's wording in "More Irish Families" (1960) is: "The sept was located in the
                      Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork)...," not at all indicating they were part of the
                      original Corca Laoidhe people. Anyway, I googled the "Book of Ballymote," which must be
                      the earlier reference you mention, but can't find any mention online of it mentioning
                      Buadaigh. I'm not doubting it does, but if you come across a specific mention I'd like to
                      store it away.

                      As to "O'Sulivans who had adopted the name 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first'
                      name as we would now call it." ... I see now you were including the O'Buadaigh part as
                      one of the first name examples, while I saw it as distinct since it is presented as a
                      Sullivan line adopting it as a surname: "Maolodhar son of Sealbach had five sons ... Buadhach, from whom the Ui Buadaigh." That's not to say it's an accurate account of
                      what happened or the origin of any Gaelic Bowe-s.


                      --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Corca Laiodhe was a grouping of peoples living in a specifci geogtraphic region, ie: SW
                      Cork, the O'Buadhaigh were linked with them long before the Irish Annals were
                      composed and Woulfe arrived on the scene.
                      >
                      > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                      > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                      > To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 3:10 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I think Corca Laiaodhe just refers to location. Our Files sections has the Eoghanacht
                      > Genealogies in .doc format. I pulled this from the internet long ago, so can't verify it
                      > detail by detail. O'Buadaigh falls in a "minor branch" of the O'Sullivans, so not sure why
                      > Woulfe says they're not related.
                      >
                      > I have a thought of making a gedcom of this document that is a lot easier to track and
                      > view reports from. Also thinking of starting a Family Tree DNA group specifically to
                      study
                      > the names in the Eoghanacht Genealogies and see if the anglicized surnames
                      correspond
                      > as they should by DNA. What better way to put the accuracy of this old text to the test
                      > and to learn the DNA signatures of this group? Unfortunately I can think of far more
                      > genealogy projects than I have time for and my hands are overfull. Do you think you'd
                      be
                      > interested in administering such a group at FTDNA Jeff?
                      >
                      > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Bang-on Frank
                      > >  
                      > > O'Sullivan's are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O'
                      > Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca Laiaodhe.
                      > >
                      > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: Frank Bowe <bowe_f@>
                      > > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:43 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-
                      eye.Its
                      > from
                      > > a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being
                      carried
                      > out.Vague I
                      > > Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big
                      Eoghans
                      > tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans
                      .A
                      > son of
                      > > this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air
                      > wasnt flying
                      > > then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over
                      great
                      > BRittain.
                      > > The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary
                      is
                      > one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves
                      > Scotsaccording to
                      > > Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
                      > >  
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@yahoo. co.uk>
                      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
                      > > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
                      > Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
                      > 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
                      > with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
                      > >
                      > > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
                      > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
                      > (gets
                      > > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
                      > > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
                      > >
                      > > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
                      > >
                      > > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
                      > O'Donovan
                      > > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
                      > adopted
                      > > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
                      > >
                      > > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for
                      clarification
                      > > some day.
                      > >
                      > > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their
                      works
                      > (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily
                      of
                      > works on
                      > > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
                      > Woulfe's
                      > > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
                      > difference.
                      > > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
                      > >
                      >
                    • Frank Bowe
                      Corka accordong to story/legend was a male child hidden in some container when soldiers came seeking to kill the male child, a spark flew out of fire which was
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 3, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Corka accordong to story/legend was a male child hidden in some container when soldiers came
                        seeking to kill the male child, a spark flew out of fire which was purple , Corca means purple, and Laiodhe, has something to do with Oleary's or Donovan . I take it this Gang of Corca of the
                        OLearys ,they were driven south by Dal Gais, who were connected and inhabited Tipperary and
                        Limerick.There is too much to imagine its All fiction., a grain of truth must be assumed. The Penquin HIstorical History of The Vikings , and Cassels Atlas of World History by Doctor John
                        Haywood, of Cambridge , states , Irish Tribes invaded Scotland and called themselves Scots.He
                        is an acknowledged expert on the Dark Ages..
                        I went to school with many O ' Sullivans, and never experience any that had not the prefix O , in fact to refer to them as Sullivan , one would have to be familar or gaging for a row , as  Cromwell
                        sought to  make them conform by forcing them to drop the prefix O , meaning of , and Mac
                        meaning son of, Corca probably gives its name to Cork. Corka I think had 11 sons , and another
                        male 24 , so they were a prolific group , and no family Allowance.
                         


                        From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                        To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, 2 February, 2009 22:07:48
                        Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?

                        Thanks for the clarification. Whenever I've seen Corca Laiodhe mentioned, it's always with
                        (S.W. Cork) after, and never made it clear it referred to a group of people, leading me for
                        some time now to believe it was a place inhabited by some of the Eoghanacht, including
                        the O'Buadaigh sept mentioned in the Eoghanacht Genealogies! In fact, I see now that
                        MacLysaght's wording in "More Irish Families" (1960) is: "The sept was located in the
                        Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork)...," not at all indicating they were part of the
                        original Corca Laoidhe people. Anyway, I googled the "Book of Ballymote," which must be
                        the earlier reference you mention, but can't find any mention online of it mentioning
                        Buadaigh. I'm not doubting it does, but if you come across a specific mention I'd like to
                        store it away.

                        As to "O'Sulivans who had adopted the name 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first'
                        name as we would now call it." ... I see now you were including the O'Buadaigh part as
                        one of the first name examples, while I saw it as distinct since it is presented as a
                        Sullivan line adopting it as a surname: "Maolodhar son of Sealbach had five sons ... Buadhach, from whom the Ui Buadaigh." That's not to say it's an accurate account of
                        what happened or the origin of any Gaelic Bowe-s.

                        --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > Corca Laiodhe was a grouping of peoples living in a specifci geogtraphic region, ie: SW
                        Cork, the O'Buadhaigh were linked with them long before the Irish Annals were
                        composed and Woulfe arrived on the scene.
                        >
                        > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                        > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                        > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 3:10 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I think Corca Laiaodhe just refers to location. Our Files sections has the Eoghanacht
                        > Genealogies in .doc format. I pulled this from the internet long ago, so can't verify it
                        > detail by detail. O'Buadaigh falls in a "minor branch" of the O'Sullivans, so not sure why
                        > Woulfe says they're not related.
                        >
                        > I have a thought of making a gedcom of this document that is a lot easier to track and
                        > view reports from. Also thinking of starting a Family Tree DNA group specifically to
                        study
                        > the names in the Eoghanacht Genealogies and see if the anglicized surnames
                        correspond
                        > as they should by DNA. What better way to put the accuracy of this old text to the test
                        > and to learn the DNA signatures of this group? Unfortunately I can think of far more
                        > genealogy projects than I have time for and my hands are overfull. Do you think you'd
                        be
                        > interested in administering such a group at FTDNA Jeff?
                        >
                        > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Bang-on Frank
                        > >  
                        > > O'Sullivan's are associated with the Eoghanacta indeed, not so sure about the O'
                        > Buadhaigh they (we??) are more closely linked with the Corca Laiaodhe.
                        > >
                        > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Frank Bowe <bowe_f@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: Frank Bowe <bowe_f@>
                        > > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                        > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Date: Monday, 2 February, 2009, 12:43 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > OSullivan, Suel in Gaelic means an Eye , so thoughtto mean one-eyed or Hawk-
                        eye.Its
                        > from
                        > > a story of a conquerer requiring the eye of  his subject, and the deed being
                        carried
                        > out.Vague I
                        > > Know , I'll gen up on it.But I'm sure the O Sullivans go back to Egonachta , Big
                        Eoghans
                        > tribe asdo the McCarthys , O' Learys , O Callaghans,Flynns , Cullinanes , O Donovans
                        .A
                        > son of
                        > > this tribe married a daughter of the King of the Picks in Scotland, and as Ryan Air
                        > wasnt flying
                        > > then the logistics are mind boggling , I think these tribes must have moved over
                        great
                        > BRittain.
                        > > The Vikings saw off the Picts ,so the gene pool must be diverse.And Michael O Leary
                        is
                        > one of THe Egonactha.The invading Irish tribes in Scotland called themselves
                        > Scotsaccording to
                        > > Great Migrations,Penquin History of The Vikings byDr. John Haywood.
                        > >  
                        > >  
                        > >
                        > >  
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: Allen Bowes <bowes2000@yahoo. co.uk>
                        > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Sent: Sunday, 1 February, 2009 22:27:26
                        > > Subject: Re: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The O'Sullivan connection may indeed be spurious, as it was based upon a few 18th
                        > Century references naming some O'Sulivans who had adopted the name
                        > 'Buadhach/Budhaigh' , almost as a 'first' name as we would now call it. The association
                        > with the Corca Laoidhe is earlier and perhaps more reliable.
                        > >
                        > > --- On Sun, 1/2/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ one-name. org>
                        > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] To Sullivan or Not To Sullivan?
                        > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Date: Sunday, 1 February, 2009, 8:38 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Had a fun time at the library yesterday. I'm discovering how great our local library is
                        > (gets
                        > > books from anywhere in the country if they circulate), and the local large university
                        > > libraries. Forgot how much I love libraries ... but I digress.
                        > >
                        > > In MacLysaght's 1960 Ed, "More irish Families," he states:
                        > >
                        > > "The sept was located in the Corca Laoidhe country (south-west of Cork) and
                        > O'Donovan
                        > > says that they considered themselves to be a branch of the O'Sullivans who had
                        > adopted
                        > > this alternative surname. Woulfe, however, states that there is no such kinship."
                        > >
                        > > Another assertion by Woulfe to keep in the back of our minds and hope for
                        clarification
                        > > some day.
                        > >
                        > > I noted that MacLysaght and Woulfe both have extensive bibliographies in their
                        works
                        > (but unfortunately did not use footnotes!), but while MacLysaught' s consist primarily
                        of
                        > works on
                        > > specific families written by those families (hard to judge the accuracy of all those),
                        > Woulfe's
                        > > seem to consist more of historical documents. I need to focus in more on this
                        > difference.
                        > > They both appear to be respected researchers. O' Donovan is new to me.
                        > >
                        >


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