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New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...

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  • mhbowes11
    From a Guild forum post: There has been an interesting account in today s Yorkshire Post concerning a proposed DNA investigation by Leics University who
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 30, 2009
      From a Guild forum post:

      "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a proposed
      DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the Wirral/West
      Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are seeking men
      whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire, Durham
      or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing, North Yorks
      includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc., where
      Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the Guild
      Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of time
      scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some GoONS."

      I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a number of
      posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study might not
      say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented." We're
      certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
    • mhbowes11
      I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about genetic makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
        I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about genetic
        makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
        forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:

        "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal ancestors,
        and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in other parts
        of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the amount of
        shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can predict
        general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes involved in
        disease."

        Official site: http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/NewSurnames.html


        --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
        >
        > From a Guild forum post:
        >
        > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
        proposed
        > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
        Wirral/West
        > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are seeking
        men
        > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
        Durham
        > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing, North
        Yorks
        > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc., where
        > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
        Guild
        > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
        time
        > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
        GoONS."
        >
        > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
        number of
        > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study might
        not
        > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented." We're
        > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
        >
      • mhbowes11
        Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different study of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area: An interesting mention at the bottom of
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
          Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different study
          of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:

          An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/39Time-team39-to-seek-out.4930477.jp

          "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.

          Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly true.
          Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after the
          1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French people
          to England.

          Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because settlers
          showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."

          My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
          German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north, or
          maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating in
          another part of England for some reason.

          Martha

          --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
          >
          > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about genetic
          > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
          > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
          >
          > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
          ancestors,
          > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in other
          parts
          > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the amount of
          > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can predict
          > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes involved
          in
          > disease."
          >
          > Official site: http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/NewSurnames.html
          >
          >
          > --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@> wrote:
          > >
          > > From a Guild forum post:
          > >
          > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
          > proposed
          > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
          > Wirral/West
          > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are seeking
          > men
          > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
          > Durham
          > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing, North
          > Yorks
          > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
          where
          > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
          > Guild
          > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
          > time
          > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
          > GoONS."
          > >
          > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
          > number of
          > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
          might
          > not
          > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented."
          We're
          > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
          > >
          >
        • Allen Bowes
          Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish influx
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
            Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish influx during the 8th to 10th Centuries
            --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
            From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
            Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
            To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM

            Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different study
            of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:

            An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co. uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp

            "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.

            Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly true.
            Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after the
            1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French people
            to England.

            Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because settlers
            showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."

            My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
            German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north, or
            maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating in
            another part of England for some reason.

            Martha

            --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about genetic
            > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
            > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
            >
            > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
            ancestors,
            > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in other
            parts
            > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the amount of
            > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can predict
            > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes involved
            in
            > disease."
            >
            > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
            >
            >
            > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > From a Guild forum post:
            > >
            > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
            > proposed
            > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
            > Wirral/West
            > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are seeking
            > men
            > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
            > Durham
            > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing, North
            > Yorks
            > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
            where
            > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
            > Guild
            > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
            > time
            > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
            > GoONS."
            > >
            > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
            > number of
            > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
            might
            > not
            > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented. "
            We're
            > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
            > >
            >


          • mhbowes11
            Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany, while some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
              Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany, while
              some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N. England,
              making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
              England?

              --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
              Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish influx
              during the 8th to 10th Centuries
              > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
              > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
              Bowes Area of England ...
              > To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
              study
              > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
              >
              > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
              uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
              >
              > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
              >
              > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly true.
              > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after the
              > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French people
              > to England.
              >
              > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because settlers
              > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
              >
              > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
              > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north,
              or
              > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating in
              > another part of England for some reason.
              >
              > Martha
              >
              > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
              genetic
              > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
              > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
              > >
              > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
              > ancestors,
              > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in other
              > parts
              > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the amount
              of
              > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
              predict
              > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
              involved
              > in
              > > disease."
              > >
              > > Official site: http://www.le ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
              wrote:
              > > >
              > > > From a Guild forum post:
              > > >
              > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
              > > proposed
              > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
              > > Wirral/West
              > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
              seeking
              > > men
              > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
              > > Durham
              > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
              North
              > > Yorks
              > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
              > where
              > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
              > > Guild
              > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
              > > time
              > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
              > > GoONS."
              > > >
              > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
              > > number of
              > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
              > might
              > > not
              > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented. "
              > We're
              > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Allen Bowes
              not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term anglo-saxon , ... From: mhbowes11 Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon',

                --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
                To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM

                Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany, while
                some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N. England,
                making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                England?

                --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                >
                > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish influx
                during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                Bowes Area of England ...
                > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                study
                > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                >
                > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                >
                > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                >
                > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly true.
                > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after the
                > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French people
                > to England.
                >
                > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because settlers
                > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                >
                > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
                > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north,
                or
                > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating in
                > another part of England for some reason.
                >
                > Martha
                >
                > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                genetic
                > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
                > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
                > >
                > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                > ancestors,
                > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in other
                > parts
                > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the amount
                of
                > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                predict
                > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                involved
                > in
                > > disease."
                > >
                > > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                wrote:
                > > >
                > > > From a Guild forum post:
                > > >
                > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                > > proposed
                > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                > > Wirral/West
                > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                seeking
                > > men
                > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
                > > Durham
                > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                North
                > > Yorks
                > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
                > where
                > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
                > > Guild
                > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
                > > time
                > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
                > > GoONS."
                > > >
                > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
                > > number of
                > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
                > might
                > > not
                > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented. "
                > We're
                > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                > > >
                > >
                >


              • Allen Bowes
                Anglo derives from Angli [ which meant......Saxon ,so Anglo Saxon means Saxon-Saxon these peoples came from what we now call Southern Denmark, Frisia
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                  Anglo derives from 'Angli'[ which meant......Saxon ,so Anglo Saxon means 'Saxon-Saxon' these peoples came from what we now call Southern Denmark, Frisia (Holland) and Northern Germany.

                  <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                  From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                  Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
                  To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM

                  Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany, while
                  some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N. England,
                  making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                  England?

                  --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                  Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish influx
                  during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                  > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                  > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                  Bowes Area of England ...
                  > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                  study
                  > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                  >
                  > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                  uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                  >
                  > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                  >
                  > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly true.
                  > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after the
                  > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French people
                  > to England.
                  >
                  > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because settlers
                  > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                  >
                  > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
                  > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north,
                  or
                  > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating in
                  > another part of England for some reason.
                  >
                  > Martha
                  >
                  > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                  genetic
                  > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
                  > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
                  > >
                  > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                  > ancestors,
                  > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in other
                  > parts
                  > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the amount
                  of
                  > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                  predict
                  > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                  involved
                  > in
                  > > disease."
                  > >
                  > > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                  wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > From a Guild forum post:
                  > > >
                  > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                  > > proposed
                  > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                  > > Wirral/West
                  > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                  seeking
                  > > men
                  > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
                  > > Durham
                  > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                  North
                  > > Yorks
                  > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
                  > where
                  > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
                  > > Guild
                  > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
                  > > time
                  > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
                  > > GoONS."
                  > > >
                  > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
                  > > number of
                  > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
                  > might
                  > > not
                  > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented. "
                  > We're
                  > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >


                • mhbowes11
                  Forgive me for not knowing the word awarte ? Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I ll ask him). What is misleading
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                    Forgive me for not knowing the word "awarte"?

                    Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I'll ask
                    him). What is misleading about the term? I noted your earlier mention that Danish and AS
                    DNA is hard to distinguish.

                    Thanks.

                    --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon',
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                    > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                    Bowes Area of England ...
                    > To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany,
                    while
                    > some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
                    England,
                    > making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                    > England?
                    >
                    > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                    > Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish
                    influx
                    > during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                    > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                    > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                    > Bowes Area of England ...
                    > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                    > study
                    > > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                    > >
                    > > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                    > uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                    > >
                    > > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                    > >
                    > > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly
                    true.
                    > > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after
                    the
                    > > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French
                    people
                    > > to England.
                    > >
                    > > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because
                    settlers
                    > > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                    > >
                    > > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
                    > > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north,
                    > or
                    > > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating
                    in
                    > > another part of England for some reason.
                    > >
                    > > Martha
                    > >
                    > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                    > genetic
                    > > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
                    > > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
                    > > >
                    > > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                    > > ancestors,
                    > > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in
                    other
                    > > parts
                    > > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the
                    amount
                    > of
                    > > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                    > predict
                    > > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                    > involved
                    > > in
                    > > > disease."
                    > > >
                    > > > Official site: http://www.le ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                    > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > From a Guild forum post:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                    > > > proposed
                    > > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                    > > > Wirral/West
                    > > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                    > seeking
                    > > > men
                    > > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North
                    Yorkshire,
                    > > > Durham
                    > > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                    > North
                    > > > Yorks
                    > > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
                    > > where
                    > > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on
                    the
                    > > > Guild
                    > > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication
                    of
                    > > > time
                    > > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
                    > > > GoONS."
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are
                    a
                    > > > number of
                    > > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
                    > > might
                    > > > not
                    > > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented.
                    "
                    > > We're
                    > > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Allen Bowes
                    forgive me for playing the guitar and having long nails on my right hand which results in typos ... From: mhbowes11 Subject:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                      forgive me for playing the guitar and having long nails on my right hand which results in typos

                      --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                      From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                      Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
                      To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:33 PM

                      Forgive me for not knowing the word "awarte"?

                      Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I'll ask
                      him). What is misleading about the term? I noted your earlier mention that Danish and AS
                      DNA is hard to distinguish.

                      Thanks.

                      --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon' ,
                      >
                      > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                      > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                      Bowes Area of England ...
                      > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany,
                      while
                      > some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
                      England,
                      > making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                      > England?
                      >
                      > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                      > Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish
                      influx
                      > during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                      > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                      > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                      > Bowes Area of England ...
                      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                      > study
                      > > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                      > >
                      > > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                      > uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                      > >
                      > > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                      > >
                      > > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly
                      true.
                      > > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after
                      the
                      > > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French
                      people
                      > > to England.
                      > >
                      > > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because
                      settlers
                      > > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                      > >
                      > > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
                      > > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north,
                      > or
                      > > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating
                      in
                      > > another part of England for some reason.
                      > >
                      > > Martha
                      > >
                      > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                      > genetic
                      > > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
                      > > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
                      > > >
                      > > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                      > > ancestors,
                      > > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in
                      other
                      > > parts
                      > > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the
                      amount
                      > of
                      > > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                      > predict
                      > > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                      > involved
                      > > in
                      > > > disease."
                      > > >
                      > > > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                      > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > From a Guild forum post:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                      > > > proposed
                      > > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                      > > > Wirral/West
                      > > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                      > seeking
                      > > > men
                      > > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North
                      Yorkshire,
                      > > > Durham
                      > > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                      > North
                      > > > Yorks
                      > > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
                      > > where
                      > > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on
                      the
                      > > > Guild
                      > > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication
                      of
                      > > > time
                      > > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
                      > > > GoONS."
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are
                      a
                      > > > number of
                      > > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
                      > > might
                      > > > not
                      > > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented.
                      "
                      > > We're
                      > > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • Allen Bowes
                      Latin chronicles used the term Angli which really referred to a people, from the same area, Angles, this term was wrongly associated with Saxons. ... From:
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                        Latin chronicles used the term 'Angli' which really referred to a people, from the same area, Angles, this term was wrongly associated with Saxons.

                        --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                        From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                        Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
                        To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:33 PM

                        Forgive me for not knowing the word "awarte"?

                        Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I'll ask
                        him). What is misleading about the term? I noted your earlier mention that Danish and AS
                        DNA is hard to distinguish.

                        Thanks.

                        --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon' ,
                        >
                        > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                        > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                        Bowes Area of England ...
                        > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany,
                        while
                        > some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
                        England,
                        > making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                        > England?
                        >
                        > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                        > Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish
                        influx
                        > during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                        > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                        > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                        > Bowes Area of England ...
                        > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                        > study
                        > > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                        > >
                        > > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                        > uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                        > >
                        > > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                        > >
                        > > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly
                        true.
                        > > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after
                        the
                        > > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French
                        people
                        > > to England.
                        > >
                        > > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because
                        settlers
                        > > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                        > >
                        > > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning toward
                        > > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up north,
                        > or
                        > > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes originating
                        in
                        > > another part of England for some reason.
                        > >
                        > > Martha
                        > >
                        > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                        > genetic
                        > > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can help
                        > > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd bullet:
                        > > >
                        > > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                        > > ancestors,
                        > > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in
                        other
                        > > parts
                        > > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the
                        amount
                        > of
                        > > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                        > predict
                        > > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                        > involved
                        > > in
                        > > > disease."
                        > > >
                        > > > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                        > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > From a Guild forum post:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                        > > > proposed
                        > > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                        > > > Wirral/West
                        > > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                        > seeking
                        > > > men
                        > > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North
                        Yorkshire,
                        > > > Durham
                        > > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                        > North
                        > > > Yorks
                        > > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc.,
                        > > where
                        > > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on
                        the
                        > > > Guild
                        > > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication
                        of
                        > > > time
                        > > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
                        > > > GoONS."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are
                        a
                        > > > number of
                        > > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study
                        > > might
                        > > > not
                        > > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented.
                        "
                        > > We're
                        > > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >


                      • mhbowes11
                        So the Saxons went from Germany to S. England while the Angles stayed north (N. Germany, Denmark, N. England)? Presumably, then, Ken s Anglo-Saxon labels
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                          So the Saxons went from Germany to S. England while the Angles stayed north (N.
                          Germany, Denmark, N. England)? Presumably, then, Ken's "Anglo-Saxon" labels confuse
                          things without knowing how he's using the term in each group. I'll check with him on
                          that.

                          --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Latin chronicles used the term 'Angli' which really referred to a people, from the same
                          area, Angles, this term was wrongly associated with Saxons.
                          >
                          > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                          > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                          Bowes Area of England ...
                          > To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:33 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Forgive me for not knowing the word "awarte"?
                          >
                          > Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I'll ask
                          > him). What is misleading about the term? I noted your earlier mention that Danish and
                          AS
                          > DNA is hard to distinguish.
                          >
                          > Thanks.
                          >
                          > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon' ,
                          > >
                          > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                          > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                          > Bowes Area of England ...
                          > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany,
                          > while
                          > > some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
                          > England,
                          > > making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                          > > England?
                          > >
                          > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                          > > Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish
                          > influx
                          > > during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                          > > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                          > > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                          > > Bowes Area of England ...
                          > > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                          > > study
                          > > > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                          > > >
                          > > > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                          > > uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                          > > >
                          > > > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                          > > >
                          > > > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly
                          > true.
                          > > > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after
                          > the
                          > > > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French
                          > people
                          > > > to England.
                          > > >
                          > > > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because
                          > settlers
                          > > > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                          > > >
                          > > > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning
                          toward
                          > > > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up
                          north,
                          > > or
                          > > > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes
                          originating
                          > in
                          > > > another part of England for some reason.
                          > > >
                          > > > Martha
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                          > > genetic
                          > > > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can
                          help
                          > > > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd
                          bullet:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                          > > > ancestors,
                          > > > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in
                          > other
                          > > > parts
                          > > > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the
                          > amount
                          > > of
                          > > > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                          > > predict
                          > > > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                          > > involved
                          > > > in
                          > > > > disease."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Official site: http://www.le ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > From a Guild forum post:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                          > > > > proposed
                          > > > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                          > > > > Wirral/West
                          > > > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                          > > seeking
                          > > > > men
                          > > > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North
                          > Yorkshire,
                          > > > > Durham
                          > > > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                          > > North
                          > > > > Yorks
                          > > > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area
                          etc.,
                          > > > where
                          > > > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project
                          on
                          > the
                          > > > > Guild
                          > > > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no
                          indication
                          > of
                          > > > > time
                          > > > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to
                          some
                          > > > > GoONS."
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there
                          are
                          > a
                          > > > > number of
                          > > > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The
                          study
                          > > > might
                          > > > > not
                          > > > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be
                          "represented.
                          > "
                          > > > We're
                          > > > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Allen Bowes
                          not Germany as we now know it, from the northern areas of Germany, Holland and southern Denmark, that is why it s tough to genetically differentuiate in terms
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 31, 2009
                            not Germany as we now know it, from the northern areas of Germany, Holland and southern Denmark, that is why it's tough to genetically differentuiate in terms of Saxons and Danes in the UK

                            --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                            From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
                            Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
                            To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 6:49 PM

                            So the Saxons went from Germany to S. England while the Angles stayed north (N.
                            Germany, Denmark, N. England)? Presumably, then, Ken's "Anglo-Saxon" labels confuse
                            things without knowing how he's using the term in each group. I'll check with him on
                            that.

                            --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
                            >
                            > Latin chronicles used the term 'Angli' which really referred to a people, from the same
                            area, Angles, this term was wrongly associated with Saxons.
                            >
                            > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                            > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                            Bowes Area of England ...
                            > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:33 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Forgive me for not knowing the word "awarte"?
                            >
                            > Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I'll ask
                            > him). What is misleading about the term? I noted your earlier mention that Danish and
                            AS
                            > DNA is hard to distinguish.
                            >
                            > Thanks.
                            >
                            > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon' ,
                            > >
                            > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                            > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                            > Bowes Area of England ...
                            > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany,
                            > while
                            > > some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
                            > England,
                            > > making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
                            > > England?
                            > >
                            > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
                            > > Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish
                            > influx
                            > > during the 8th to 10th Centuries
                            > > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
                            > > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
                            > > Bowes Area of England ...
                            > > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
                            > > study
                            > > > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
                            > > >
                            > > > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
                            > > uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
                            > > >
                            > > > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
                            > > >
                            > > > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly
                            > true.
                            > > > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after
                            > the
                            > > > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French
                            > people
                            > > > to England.
                            > > >
                            > > > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because
                            > settlers
                            > > > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
                            > > >
                            > > > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning
                            toward
                            > > > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up
                            north,
                            > > or
                            > > > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes
                            originating
                            > in
                            > > > another part of England for some reason.
                            > > >
                            > > > Martha
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
                            > > genetic
                            > > > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can
                            help
                            > > > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd
                            bullet:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
                            > > > ancestors,
                            > > > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in
                            > other
                            > > > parts
                            > > > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the
                            > amount
                            > > of
                            > > > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
                            > > predict
                            > > > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
                            > > involved
                            > > > in
                            > > > > disease."
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > From a Guild forum post:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                            > > > > proposed
                            > > > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                            > > > > Wirral/West
                            > > > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
                            > > seeking
                            > > > > men
                            > > > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North
                            > Yorkshire,
                            > > > > Durham
                            > > > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
                            > > North
                            > > > > Yorks
                            > > > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area
                            etc.,
                            > > > where
                            > > > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project
                            on
                            > the
                            > > > > Guild
                            > > > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no
                            indication
                            > of
                            > > > > time
                            > > > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to
                            some
                            > > > > GoONS."
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there
                            are
                            > a
                            > > > > number of
                            > > > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The
                            study
                            > > > might
                            > > > > not
                            > > > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be
                            "represented.
                            > "
                            > > > We're
                            > > > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • mhbowes11
                            I emailed the study contact about Bowes lineage in this area and got this response: Dear Martha, Thanks for your message and your interest in our study. We
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 2, 2009
                              I emailed the study contact about Bowes lineage in this area and got this response:

                              "Dear Martha,

                              Thanks for your message and your interest in our study. We will see if we acquire
                              any Bowes males in our initial recruitment phase, and if not we will include the name in
                              our second-phase recruitment targeting specific surnames."

                              Again, not going to help our projects specifically I don't think, but nice to get
                              represented if it works. The study results should include some marker values, although
                              not as many as one gets through FTDNA, and some amount of haplogroup info for any
                              male Bowes tested.

                              --- In bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From a Guild forum post:
                              >
                              > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
                              proposed
                              > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
                              Wirral/West
                              > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are seeking
                              men
                              > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Yorkshire,
                              Durham
                              > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing, North
                              Yorks
                              > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area etc., where
                              > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project on the
                              Guild
                              > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no indication of
                              time
                              > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to some
                              GoONS."
                              >
                              > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there are a
                              number of
                              > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The study might
                              not
                              > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be "represented." We're
                              > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
                              >
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