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114Re: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...

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  • Allen Bowes
    Jan 31, 2009
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      not Germany as we now know it, from the northern areas of Germany, Holland and southern Denmark, that is why it's tough to genetically differentuiate in terms of Saxons and Danes in the UK

      --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...> wrote:
      From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@...>
      Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from Bowes Area of England ...
      To: bowesgenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 6:49 PM

      So the Saxons went from Germany to S. England while the Angles stayed north (N.
      Germany, Denmark, N. England)? Presumably, then, Ken's "Anglo-Saxon" labels confuse
      things without knowing how he's using the term in each group. I'll check with him on
      that.

      --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Latin chronicles used the term 'Angli' which really referred to a people, from the same
      area, Angles, this term was wrongly associated with Saxons.
      >
      > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
      > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
      Bowes Area of England ...
      > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:33 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Forgive me for not knowing the word "awarte"?
      >
      > Can you spell this out a bit. I wonder how Ken uses the term (if you know, or I'll ask
      > him). What is misleading about the term? I noted your earlier mention that Danish and
      AS
      > DNA is hard to distinguish.
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
      > >
      > > not really, we have to awarte of the misleading term 'anglo-saxon' ,
      > >
      > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
      > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
      > Bowes Area of England ...
      > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 5:24 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Meaning most Anglo-Saxons who went to S. England came directly from Germany,
      > while
      > > some Anglo-Saxons who had migrated up to Denmark, then came down into N.
      > England,
      > > making a heavier influx in S. England, with a smaller but significant percentage in N.
      > > England?
      > >
      > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, Allen Bowes <bowes2000@ ..> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hold on to the fact that the name Bowes is strongly attached to North
      > > Yorkshire/Durham, which just happened to have experienced considerable Danish
      > influx
      > > during the 8th to 10th Centuries
      > > > --- On Sat, 31/1/09, mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > From: mhbowes11 <martha.bowes@ ...>
      > > > Subject: [bowesgenealogy] Re: New Academic Study Being Planned for Males from
      > > Bowes Area of England ...
      > > > To: bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com
      > > > Date: Saturday, 31 January, 2009, 2:29 PM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Oops, now it appears the forum poster was more accurate and there is a different
      > > study
      > > > of Viking DNA in Yorkshire area:
      > > >
      > > > An interesting mention at the bottom of the article: http://www.yorkshir epost.co.
      > > uk/news/39Time- team39-to- seek-out. 4930477.jp
      > > >
      > > > "Most Northerners have either Celtic or Viking blood running through their veins.
      > > >
      > > > Although we also think or ourselves as mixed with the French, that is not strictly
      > true.
      > > > Historians say the Normans merely established a ruling class to run England after
      > the
      > > > 1066 Conquest and there is no evidence of much movement by ordinary French
      > people
      > > > to England.
      > > >
      > > > Although we speak English, Anglo Saxon genes are weak in the North because
      > settlers
      > > > showed little inclination to move into Celtic territory."
      > > >
      > > > My father's Bowes, Viking Y-DNA has been estimated Anglo-Saxon, leaning
      toward
      > > > German by Ken Nordvedt, so maybe there are exceptions to Anglo-Saxons up
      north,
      > > or
      > > > maybe Ken's research isn't on point yet, or maybe my line was a Bowes
      originating
      > in
      > > > another part of England for some reason.
      > > >
      > > > Martha
      > > >
      > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ ...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I guess the forum poster was a little off, in that the study is not as much about
      > > genetic
      > > > > makeup of the region, as it is about whether surname/Y-DNA databases can
      help
      > > > > forensic investigators identify a person who is unidentified! There is a 3rd
      bullet:
      > > > >
      > > > > "We will also use surnames to find groups of men who share common paternal
      > > > ancestors,
      > > > > and then assess the increased efficiency of searching for shared segments in
      > other
      > > > parts
      > > > > of the genome in these groups. Our goal here is the demonstration that the
      > amount
      > > of
      > > > > shared DNA fits predictions from family trees, and that Y chromosome type can
      > > predict
      > > > > general genetic relatedness. This could then be applied to searches for genes
      > > involved
      > > > in
      > > > > disease."
      > > > >
      > > > > Official site: http://www.le. ac.uk/genetics/ maj4/NewSurnames .html
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In bowesgenealogy@ yahoogroups. com, "mhbowes11" <martha.bowes@ >
      > > wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > From a Guild forum post:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "There has been an interesting account in today's Yorkshire Post concerning a
      > > > > proposed
      > > > > > DNA investigation by Leics University who conducted the investigation in the
      > > > > Wirral/West
      > > > > > Lancs, recently publicised on the Forum (and in our message list). They are
      > > seeking
      > > > > men
      > > > > > whose father's father was born in Cumbria, Lancashire, Cheshire, North
      > Yorkshire,
      > > > > Durham
      > > > > > or Northumberland. The use of modern county titles is somewhat confusing,
      > > North
      > > > > Yorks
      > > > > > includes a very large chunk of the old West Riding - the wider Skipton area
      etc.,
      > > > where
      > > > > > Oddys occurred. I have emailed Dr King to say I would publicise the project
      on
      > the
      > > > > Guild
      > > > > > Forum. The samples will be swabs sent through the post. There is no
      indication
      > of
      > > > > time
      > > > > > scale, that probably depends on response. I hope it may be of interest to
      some
      > > > > GoONS."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I plan to post this to our surname message boards on the web where there
      are
      > a
      > > > > number of
      > > > > > posters from that area who've never contacted me re: our DNA study. The
      study
      > > > might
      > > > > not
      > > > > > say a lot about our surname specifically, but would be nice to be
      "represented.
      > "
      > > > We're
      > > > > > certainly an established name there with a matching town name to boot.
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >


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