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suspected binational quadripoint may have been caught jumping 5 miles

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  • aletheia kallos
    subdivisional quadripoints on international boundaries are quite rare as are multipoints of any sort that change their locations yet there now appears to be a
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2009
      subdivisional quadripoints on international boundaries are quite rare
      as are multipoints of any sort that change their locations

      yet there now appears to be a case of both of these extreme rarities combined into one
      because subdivisional boundaries in both bolivia & paraguay have both terminated 
      historically if not also up to the present
      at an established turnpoint on their international border that has in fact moved about 5 miles

      the recent bolivia paraguay boundary agreement reported & discussed here
      implicitly reaffirms that a 7500meter displacement of this turnpoint did occur in 1969
      when primary pillar number viii was moved from its provisional 1939 location to its proper position on cerro chovoreca

      & tho it isnt clear when the turnpoint was compounded with subdivisional boundary terminals in each of the countries
      it is quite probable that on the bolivian side
      within santa cruz department
      the tertiary level boundary between cordillera & german busch provinces shown here
      is presently conjoined with the turnpoint
      on the paraguayan side it is just as probable that between 1945 & 1992
      when the former chaco department was merged into the alto paraguay department
      their secondary level boundary was likewise affixed to the turnpoint as shown here
      & so
      it is nearly as probable that a present subdivisional or district boundary within alto paraguay continues on the tertiary level to maintain the defunct secondary level boundary alignment

      & tho a map of these contemporary subdivisions is elusive
      it can still be surmised from the names of the districts & the locations of their capitals
      that the 2 districts involved are most probably bahia negra & mayor pablo lagerenza

      so putatively anyway
      the displaced turnpoint is still an international tertiary quadripoint bopy2agsc3bncrgbml

      & you can macroscopically compare its old position here as shown on most maps
      with its new position on the few maps that have already been corrected

      or to catch the jump more vividly & closer up
      just note the gap on google maps between the old turnpoint still depicted there & the cerro chovoreca hilltop that shows up quite clearly in pink on the satpic about 5 miles nnw of it
      & imagine the probable quadripoint leaping across this distance
      as it probably did in 1969 & as was probably reconfirmed this week
    • Jesper Nielsen
      Fancy seeing pic of Mpundweni beacon? Jesper
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2, 2009

        Fancy seeing pic of Mpundweni beacon?

         

        Jesper

      • aletheia kallos
        absolutely bwanawe will fancy whatever we getbut you are bringing fresh game ... From: Jesper Nielsen Subject: [boundarypointpoint]
        Message 3 of 6 , May 2, 2009
          absolutely bwana
          we will fancy whatever we get
          but you are bringing fresh game

          --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...> wrote:

          From: Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...>
          Subject: [boundarypointpoint] MZSZZA
          To: boundarypointpoint@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:54 AM

          Fancy seeing pic of Mpundweni beacon?

           

          Jesper


        • Jesper Nielsen
          While we wait for Mpundweni here is a hint. I have looked at the website of the Rockhounds and they did get Mpundweni into on of the pix.
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2009

            While we wait for Mpundweni here is a hint. I have looked at the website of the Rockhounds and they did get Mpundweni into on of the pix.

             

            http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/239709/m-ponduine.html

             

            Jesper

             


            Fra: boundarypointpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:boundarypointpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af aletheia kallos
            Sendt: 2. maj 2009 15:10
            Til: boundarypointpoint@yahoogroups.com
            Emne: Re: [boundarypointpoint] MZSZZA

             




            absolutely bwana

            we will fancy whatever we get

            but you are bringing fresh game

            --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk> wrote:


            From: Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk>
            Subject: [boundarypointpoint ] MZSZZA
            To: boundarypointpoint@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:54 AM

            Fancy seeing pic of Mpundweni beacon?

             

            Jesper

             

          • aletheiak@yahoo.com
            haha well yes certainly number 7 is a class d or e at left center but one could hope you mean number 3 also at dead center & thus somehow class c or d in
            Message 5 of 6 , May 2, 2009
              haha well yes certainly number 7 is a class d or e at left center

              but one could hope you mean number 3 also 
              at dead center 
              & thus somehow class c or d in that case
              since i believe there are glimpses of both clearcuts getting partway there anyway

              but still i dont 
              s e e 
              the monument if thats what you mean

              so 
              what exact pixel or spot detail to zoom in on

              or maybe you mean something else i am also missing

              --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...> wrote:

              From: Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...>
              Subject: SV: [boundarypointpoint] MZSZZA
              To: boundarypointpoint@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:35 PM

              While we wait for Mpundweni here is a hint. I have looked at the website of the Rockhounds and they did get Mpundweni into on of the pix.

               

              http://www.summitpo st.org/mountain/ rock/239709/ m-ponduine. html

               

              Jesper

               


              Fra: boundarypointpoint@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:boundarypoi ntpoint@yahoogro ups.com] På vegne af aletheia kallos
              Sendt: 2. maj 2009 15:10
              Til: boundarypointpoint@ yahoogroups. com
              Emne: Re: [boundarypointpoint ] MZSZZA

               




              absolutely bwana

              we will fancy whatever we get

              but you are bringing fresh game

              --- On Sat, 5/2/09, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk> wrote:


              From: Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk>
              Subject: [boundarypointpoint ] MZSZZA
              To: boundarypointpoint@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 4:54 AM

              Fancy seeing pic of Mpundweni beacon?

               

              Jesper

               


            • aletheia kallos
              continuing to investigate the jumping megapoint of chovoreca i found a most entertaining youtube clip which shows the official response to the belated
              Message 6 of 6 , May 3, 2009
                continuing to investigate the jumping megapoint of chovoreca
                i found a most entertaining youtube clip 
                which shows the official response to the belated discovery & announcement by some bolivians in 2008 that the chovoreca marker had indeed moved some 7500 meters 

                the hilarious word altisupertrasnochada used by one of the embarrassed officials who was trying to explain what happened means something like exceedingly outdated or anachronistic

                but i surmise it was just this highly public misunderstanding of last year that necessitated the otherwise baffling boundary agreement or reaffirmation ceremony of last week

                & the political theater was just opportunistic icing on the cake 

                --- In boundarypointpoint@yahoogroups.com, aletheia kallos <aletheiak@...> wrote:
                > > subdivisional quadripoints on international boundaries are quite rare > as are multipoints of any sort that change their locations > > yet there now appears to be a case of both of these extreme rarities > combined into one > because subdivisional boundaries in both bolivia & paraguay have both > terminated > historically if not also up to the present > at an established turnpoint on their international border that has in fact > moved about 5 miles > > the recent bolivia paraguay boundary agreement reported & discussed here > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0905&L=INT-BOUNDARIES&T=0&F=&S=&X=5E5C5D14980C53FF4D&P=55 > > implicitly reaffirms that a 7500meter displacement of this turnpoint did > occur in 1969 > when primary pillar number viii was moved from its provisional 1939 location > to its proper position on cerro chovoreca > > & tho it isnt clear when the turnpoint was compounded with subdivisional > boundary terminals in each of the countries > it is quite probable that on the bolivian side > within santa cruz department > the tertiary level boundary between cordillera & german busch provinces > shown here > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bolivia_department_of_SantaCruz.png > is presently conjoined with the turnpoint > & > on the paraguayan side it is just as probable that between 1945 & 1992 > when the former chaco department was merged into the alto paraguay > department > their secondary level boundary was likewise affixed to the turnpoint as > shown here > http://beaumont.tamu.edu/ClimaticData/CountryMap.aspx?index=5_8&name=PARAGUAY > > & so > it is nearly as probable that a present subdivisional or district boundary > within alto paraguay continues on the tertiary level to maintain the defunct > secondary level boundary alignment > > & tho a map of these contemporary subdivisions is elusive > it can still be surmised from the names of the districts & the locations of > their capitals > that the 2 districts involved are most probably bahia negra & mayor pablo > lagerenza > > so putatively anyway > the displaced turnpoint is still an international tertiary quadripoint > bopy2agsc3bncrgbml > > & you can macroscopically compare its old position here as shown on most > maps > http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/paraguay_pol98.jpg > with its new position on the few maps that have already been corrected > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alto_Paraguay_py.jpg > > or to catch the jump more vividly & closer up > just note the gap on google maps between the old turnpoint still depicted > there & the cerro chovoreca hilltop that shows up quite clearly in pink on > the satpic about 5 miles nnw of it > & imagine the probable quadripoint leaping across this distance > as it probably did in 1969 & as was probably reconfirmed this week >

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