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Off-topic but perhaps of interest

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  • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
    Hello, fellow border freaks! :-) This is not border-related but since it has a strong geographical nature, I thought it might interest some of our members
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 17, 2011
      Hello, fellow border freaks! :-)

      This is not border-related but since it has a strong geographical nature, I thought it might interest some of our members here. On an aviation blog I follow, a recent post of a Vimeo video was a huge success. The 9-minute video shows the delivery flight of a brand-new Phenom 100 executive jet by Embraer. The problem: the customer was a company from India, this small model has a short maximum range and can't cross the Atlantic between Brazil and Africa. How could one fly it all the way from Brazil to India?

      The solution was a very long flight with 18 legs around the Atlantic through 14 countries in five continents. From Embraer's plant in São José dos Campos, near São Paulo, to Delhi, the plane stopped in:

      - Palmas (Brazil)
      - Belém (Brazil)
      - Georgetown (Guyana)
      - Punta Cana (Dominican Republic)
      - Fort Lauderdale (Florida, USA)
      - Melbourne (Florida - Embraer's American headquarters)
      - Bangor (Maine, USA)
      - Goose Bay (Labrador, Canada)
      - Iqaluit (Nunavut, Canada)
      - Kangerlussuaq (Greenland)
      - Egilsstaðir (Iceland)
      - Prestwick (Scotland, UK)
      - Verona (Italy)
      - Santorini (Greece)
      - Hurghada (Egypt)
      - Dubai (UAE)
      - Karachi (Pakistan)


      The very interesting video (in English) can be seen at:

      http://vimeo.com/28251776


      I have prepared a Google Earth KMZ file with the entire route and it is available for download from Rapidshare at:

      https://rapidshare.com/files/1621035519/Phenom.kmz (only 11 kB)


      For those who don't have Google Earth and don't want or can't install it, I have also made some screen captures (JPG) of the route on Google Earth and put them in a ZIP file (also includes the KMZ):

      https://rapidshare.com/files/3957496223/Phenom.zip (3.8 MB)


      I didn't want to put the files on the group's site because they are not border-related. I hope you enjoy the video and the files.


      Regards,


      Goytá
    • Len Nadybal
      I m glad for Embraer that the Indians were willing to take a used plane.
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 17, 2011
        I'm glad for Embraer that the Indians were willing to take a used plane.


        Goyta' F. Villela Jr. wrote:
        > Hello, fellow border freaks! :-)
        >
        > This is not border-related but since it has a strong geographical nature, I thought it might interest some of our members here. On an aviation blog I follow, a recent post of a Vimeo video was a huge success. The 9-minute video shows the delivery flight of a brand-new Phenom 100 executive jet by Embraer. The problem: the customer was a company from India, this small model has a short maximum range and can't cross the Atlantic between Brazil and Africa. How could one fly it all the way from Brazil to India?
        >
        > The solution was a very long flight with 18 legs around the Atlantic through 14 countries in five continents. From Embraer's plant in São José dos Campos, near São Paulo, to Delhi, the plane stopped in:
        >
        > - Palmas (Brazil)
        > - Belém (Brazil)
        > - Georgetown (Guyana)
        > - Punta Cana (Dominican Republic)
        > - Fort Lauderdale (Florida, USA)
        > - Melbourne (Florida - Embraer's American headquarters)
        > - Bangor (Maine, USA)
        > - Goose Bay (Labrador, Canada)
        > - Iqaluit (Nunavut, Canada)
        > - Kangerlussuaq (Greenland)
        > - Egilsstaðir (Iceland)
        > - Prestwick (Scotland, UK)
        > - Verona (Italy)
        > - Santorini (Greece)
        > - Hurghada (Egypt)
        > - Dubai (UAE)
        > - Karachi (Pakistan)
        >
        >
        > The very interesting video (in English) can be seen at:
        >
        > http://vimeo.com/28251776
        >
        >
        > I have prepared a Google Earth KMZ file with the entire route and it is available for download from Rapidshare at:
        >
        > https://rapidshare.com/files/1621035519/Phenom.kmz (only 11 kB)
        >
        >
        > For those who don't have Google Earth and don't want or can't install it, I have also made some screen captures (JPG) of the route on Google Earth and put them in a ZIP file (also includes the KMZ):
        >
        > https://rapidshare.com/files/3957496223/Phenom.zip (3.8 MB)
        >
        >
        > I didn't want to put the files on the group's site because they are not border-related. I hope you enjoy the video and the files.
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        >
        > Goytá
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
        ... The jet was brand-new, Len. It had just been manufactured and tested for final delivery. Regards, Goytá
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 17, 2011
          > I'm glad for Embraer that the Indians were willing to take a used
          > plane.

          The jet was brand-new, Len. It had just been manufactured and tested for final delivery.

          Regards,

          Goytá
        • Lowell G. McManus
          ...and the price of a new plane often includes training for the buyer s pilot. Lowell G. McManus Eagle Pass, Texas, USA ... From: Goyta F. Villela Jr. To: Len
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 17, 2011
            ...and the price of a new plane often includes training for the buyer's pilot.
             
            Lowell G. McManus
            Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:26 AM
            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Off-topic but perhaps of interest

            > I'm glad for Embraer that the Indians were willing to take a used
            > plane.

            The jet was brand-new, Len. It had just been manufactured and tested for final delivery.

            Regards,

            Goytá



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          • Len Nadybal
            Goyta, It wasn t new by the time it had been flown for 15,000 miles from Canada to India.... It s best year was over by the time the delivery occurred. Len
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 17, 2011
              Goyta,

              It wasn't new by the time it had been flown for 15,000 miles from Canada
              to India.... It's best year was over by the time the delivery occurred.

              Len
              >
              >
              > ...and the price of a new plane often includes training for the
              > buyer's pilot.
              >
              > Lowell G. McManus
              > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > *From:* Goyta' F. Villela Jr. <mailto:goytabr@...>
              > *To:* Len Nadybal <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
              > *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2011 7:26 AM
              > *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] Off-topic but perhaps of interest
              >
              > > I'm glad for Embraer that the Indians were willing to take a used
              > > plane.
              >
              > The jet was brand-new, Len. It had just been manufactured and
              > tested for final delivery.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Goytá
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
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            • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
              ... 10 days from *Brazil* to India, Len... (It was Embraer, not - God forbid! - Bombardier.) It s on the video. With time for strategic stopovers in such
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                > Goyta,
                >
                > It wasn't new by the time it had been flown for 15,000 miles from
                > Canada to India.... It's best year was over by the time the
                > delivery occurred.


                10 days from *Brazil* to India, Len... (It was Embraer, not - God forbid! - Bombardier.) It's on the video. With time for strategic stopovers in such "horrible" places as Punta Cana, Verona (side trip to Parma just to eat prosciutto "in loco"), Santorini and Hurghada...

                Besides, considering all the DC-3s that are still flying all over the world after 70 years, and all the planes that are kept miraculously flying with duct tape all over Africa, the Indians are flying very well... Some Embraer models (though not this one, I think) even have LCD displays embedded in the windshields - a bit more technology than a DC-3...


                Regards,


                Goytá
              • Len Nadybal
                Boy, notwithstanding the brand name confusion on my part, my point got completely lost on you, I think. It sounds like the buyers maybe had fun, and if they
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                  Boy, notwithstanding the brand name confusion on my part, my point got
                  completely lost on you, I think. It sounds like the buyers maybe had
                  fun, and if they took collection of their vehicle at origin, then they
                  got a "new car" for their money and a junket out of it. My point, that
                  I was trying to reach on a round about way, is, directly, if I buy a car
                  from, let's say BMW, from the factory, and in order to deliver it to my
                  location in New York, a factory employee were to drive it to Bremerhaven
                  or Rotterdam in order to put it on a ship, it would, by necessity, be a
                  used car when it arrived at the port in New York, and not the new car.
                  I see cars with "dealer" plates here in the US, being driven around,
                  whether as a commuter vehicle for the dealer or on a "test drive" -
                  either way - that vehicle becomes used the moment so much as a cigarette
                  butt is extinguished in the ash tray. I'm sure it's no different with
                  car dealers in other countries and I'm sure its the case with the boat,
                  train and jet plane sellers. As far as your DC-3s go, those situations
                  are like the ax that's on display in a museum that belonged to George
                  Washington, that he used to chop down his father's cherry tree in the
                  1700s. It's the original thing, and is in remarkably good working
                  condition, because someone replaced the cutting blade head and the old
                  wooden handle was replaced.

                  Len




                  Goyta' F. Villela Jr. wrote:
                  >> Goyta,
                  >>
                  >> It wasn't new by the time it had been flown for 15,000 miles from
                  >> Canada to India.... It's best year was over by the time the
                  >> delivery occurred.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > 10 days from *Brazil* to India, Len... (It was Embraer, not - God forbid! - Bombardier.) It's on the video. With time for strategic stopovers in such "horrible" places as Punta Cana, Verona (side trip to Parma just to eat prosciutto "in loco"), Santorini and Hurghada...
                  >
                  > Besides, considering all the DC-3s that are still flying all over the world after 70 years, and all the planes that are kept miraculously flying with duct tape all over Africa, the Indians are flying very well... Some Embraer models (though not this one, I think) even have LCD displays embedded in the windshields - a bit more technology than a DC-3...
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  >
                  > Goytá
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Lowell G. McManus
                  Most airplanes are flown to their initial delivery. The buyer in India knew that Embraer was in Brazil when he chose to buy from it. He could have bought
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                    Most airplanes are flown to their initial delivery.  The buyer in India knew that Embraer was in Brazil when he chose to buy from it.  He could have bought from a nearer builder, perhaps in Europe, Israel, or Japan, but he chose to buy from Brazil.  He must have thought that the plane was good enough and/or the price low enough to make up for the longer delivery flight.  It was his choice, which he happily made.  I, for one, do not second-guess him.
                     
                    Lowell G. McManus
                    Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:06 AM
                    Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Off-topic but perhaps of interest

                    Boy, notwithstanding the brand name confusion on my part, my point got
                    completely lost on you, I think.  It sounds like the buyers maybe had
                    fun, and if they took collection of their vehicle at origin, then they
                    got a "new car" for their money and a junket out of it.  My point, that
                    I was trying to reach on a round about way, is, directly, if I buy a car
                    from, let's say BMW, from the factory, and in order to deliver it to my
                    location in New York, a factory employee were to drive it to Bremerhaven
                    or Rotterdam in order to put it on a ship, it would, by necessity, be a
                    used car when it arrived at the port in New York, and not the new car.  
                    I see cars with "dealer" plates  here in the US, being driven around,
                    whether as a commuter vehicle for the dealer or on a "test drive" -
                    either way - that vehicle becomes used the moment so much as a cigarette
                    butt is extinguished in the ash tray.  I'm sure it's no different with
                    car dealers in other countries and I'm sure its the case with the boat,
                    train and jet plane sellers.   As far as your DC-3s go, those situations
                    are like the ax that's on display in a museum that belonged to George
                    Washington, that he used to chop down his father's cherry tree in the
                    1700s.  It's the original thing, and is in remarkably good working
                    condition, because someone replaced the cutting blade head and the old
                    wooden handle was replaced.

                    Len
                  • Len Nadybal
                    That wasn t my point - I wasn t bemoaning that anyone can contract to take delivery of anything in any fashion or condition they care to negotiate.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                      That wasn't my point - I wasn't bemoaning that anyone can contract to
                      take delivery of anything in any fashion or condition they care to
                      negotiate.

                      Lowell G. McManus wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Most airplanes are flown to their initial delivery. The buyer in
                      > India knew that Embraer was in Brazil when he chose to buy from it.
                      > He could have bought from a nearer builder, perhaps in Europe, Israel,
                      > or Japan, but he chose to buy from Brazil. He must have thought that
                      > the plane was good enough and/or the price low enough to make up for
                      > the longer delivery flight. It was his choice, which he happily
                      > made. I, for one, do not second-guess him.
                      >
                      > Lowell G. McManus
                      > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > *From:* Len Nadybal <mailto:lnadybal@...>
                      > *To:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
                      > *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:06 AM
                      > *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] Off-topic but perhaps of interest
                      >
                      > Boy, notwithstanding the brand name confusion on my part, my point
                      > got
                      > completely lost on you, I think. It sounds like the buyers maybe had
                      > fun, and if they took collection of their vehicle at origin, then
                      > they
                      > got a "new car" for their money and a junket out of it. My point,
                      > that
                      > I was trying to reach on a round about way, is, directly, if I buy
                      > a car
                      > from, let's say BMW, from the factory, and in order to deliver it
                      > to my
                      > location in New York, a factory employee were to drive it to
                      > Bremerhaven
                      > or Rotterdam in order to put it on a ship, it would, by necessity,
                      > be a
                      > used car when it arrived at the port in New York, and not the new
                      > car.
                      > I see cars with "dealer" plates here in the US, being driven around,
                      > whether as a commuter vehicle for the dealer or on a "test drive" -
                      > either way - that vehicle becomes used the moment so much as a
                      > cigarette
                      > butt is extinguished in the ash tray. I'm sure it's no different
                      > with
                      > car dealers in other countries and I'm sure its the case with the
                      > boat,
                      > train and jet plane sellers. As far as your DC-3s go, those
                      > situations
                      > are like the ax that's on display in a museum that belonged to George
                      > Washington, that he used to chop down his father's cherry tree in the
                      > 1700s. It's the original thing, and is in remarkably good working
                      > condition, because someone replaced the cutting blade head and the
                      > old
                      > wooden handle was replaced.
                      >
                      > Len
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _______________________________________________________
                      > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
                      > http://www.doteasy.com
                    • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
                      ... But we re not talking about a car, we re talking about a plane. Planes are designed to have a useful life of anywhere between 20,000 and 50,000 takeoff and
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                        > Boy, notwithstanding the brand name confusion on my part, my point
                        > got completely lost on you, I think. It sounds like the buyers
                        > maybe had fun, and if they took collection of their vehicle at
                        > origin, then they got a "new car" for their money and a junket out
                        > of it. My point, that I was trying to reach on a round about way,
                        > is, directly, if I buy a car from, let's say BMW, from the factory,
                        > and in order to deliver it to my location in New York, a factory
                        > employee were to drive it to Bremerhaven or Rotterdam in order to
                        > put it on a ship, it would, by necessity, be a used car when it
                        > arrived at the port in New York, and not the new car.


                        But we're not talking about a car, we're talking about a plane. Planes are designed to have a useful life of anywhere between 20,000 and 50,000 takeoff and landing cycles, during which they typically fly *millions* of miles over a lifespan that often reaches several decades. Ask even major airlines like Delta, which is still flying DC-9s built in the 1960s (inherited from Northwest), or FedEx, with its large fleet of freighter DC-10s and A300s from the 1970s. And even if the airline operates brand-new planes, they can easily reach 10 or 15 takeoffs and landings on a single day if operated on busy short-haul routes like New York-Boston, New York-Washington, Toronto-Montreal, London-Paris, Madrid-Barcelona, Rome-Milan, São Paulo-Rio de Janeiro, Tokyo-Osaka, Hong Kong-Taipei, etc.

                        So, 18 flight legs over 10 days covering 15,000 miles are nothing in terms of an airplane's expected useful life. And given that Embraer E-Jets are routinely flown in places as far away from Brazil as Australia, China and Japan, that flight was no big deal for the plane's condition or valuation, since virtually all planes are flown to their buyers wherever they are, as Lowell correctly pointed out.

                        Regards,

                        Goytá
                      • Len Nadybal
                        I ll let that go before I get into any further trouble on this off-topic. All the best. Lern
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                          I'll let that go before I get into any further trouble on this off-topic.
                          All the best.
                          Lern

                          Goyta' F. Villela Jr. wrote:
                          >> Boy, notwithstanding the brand name confusion on my part, my point
                          >> got completely lost on you, I think. It sounds like the buyers
                          >> maybe had fun, and if they took collection of their vehicle at
                          >> origin, then they got a "new car" for their money and a junket out
                          >> of it. My point, that I was trying to reach on a round about way,
                          >> is, directly, if I buy a car from, let's say BMW, from the factory,
                          >> and in order to deliver it to my location in New York, a factory
                          >> employee were to drive it to Bremerhaven or Rotterdam in order to
                          >> put it on a ship, it would, by necessity, be a used car when it
                          >> arrived at the port in New York, and not the new car.
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > But we're not talking about a car, we're talking about a plane. Planes are designed to have a useful life of anywhere between 20,000 and 50,000 takeoff and landing cycles, during which they typically fly *millions* of miles over a lifespan that often reaches several decades. Ask even major airlines like Delta, which is still flying DC-9s built in the 1960s (inherited from Northwest), or FedEx, with its large fleet of freighter DC-10s and A300s from the 1970s. And even if the airline operates brand-new planes, they can easily reach 10 or 15 takeoffs and landings on a single day if operated on busy short-haul routes like New York-Boston, New York-Washington, Toronto-Montreal, London-Paris, Madrid-Barcelona, Rome-Milan, São Paulo-Rio de Janeiro, Tokyo-Osaka, Hong Kong-Taipei, etc.
                          >
                          > So, 18 flight legs over 10 days covering 15,000 miles are nothing in terms of an airplane's expected useful life. And given that Embraer E-Jets are routinely flown in places as far away from Brazil as Australia, China and Japan, that flight was no big deal for the plane's condition or valuation, since virtually all planes are flown to their buyers wherever they are, as Lowell correctly pointed out.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Goytá
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Kevin Meynell
                          ... AFAIK, Embraer have manufacturing facilities in Portugal, the US and I think China as well as Brazil. I believe the Phenom 100 is actually built in
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                            > He could have bought from a nearer builder, perhaps in Europe, Israel,
                            > or Japan, but he chose to buy from Brazil.

                            AFAIK, Embraer have manufacturing facilities in Portugal, the US and I
                            think China as well as Brazil. I believe the Phenom 100 is actually
                            built in Melbourne FL.

                            Back to the geography of the journey though, could the jet have reached
                            Ascension Island, assuming it were allowed to land there?

                            Regards,

                            Kevin Meynell
                          • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
                            ... The Phenom 100 *will* be built in Melbourne (in addition to Brazil) when Embraer s plant there is ready, but for now it s manufactured only in Gavião
                            Message 13 of 15 , Sep 18, 2011
                              > AFAIK, Embraer have manufacturing facilities in Portugal, the US and
                              > I think China as well as Brazil. I believe the Phenom 100 is
                              > actually built in Melbourne FL.


                              The Phenom 100 *will* be built in Melbourne (in addition to Brazil)
                              when Embraer's plant there is ready, but for now it's manufactured only in Gavião Peixoto, a small town in the hinterland of São Paulo state (where they have one of the world's longest runways, about 5,000 m or 16,300 ft long). However, final testing is made at Embraer's main facility in São José dos Campos, from where all its Brazilian-made planes are delivered.

                              The three Portugal plants (one purchased from a local company, two others under construction) do or will produce spare parts only, mainly in composite materials.

                              So far, the only factory outside Brazil that actually manufactures planes is in Harbin, China, where the ERJ-145 family of regional airliner jets is also made (in addition to São José dos Campos).



                              > Back to the geography of the journey though, could the jet have
                              > reached Ascension Island, assuming it were allowed to land there?


                              Possibly. I measured the distance from Ascension Island to Recife (which appears to be the nearest Brazilian airport) on Google Earth and obtained 2,260 km (1,404 miles). The Phenom 100's nominal range is a little shorter than that at 2,182 km (1,356 miles), but there were only three people on the flight and it was not at its maximum weight, so the fuel could have been enough. Besides, two of the legs flown on the delivery flight came razor-thin close to the nominal maximum range: Melbourne-Bangor (2,130 km or 1,324 miles) and Hurghada-Dubai (2,158 km or 1,341 miles).

                              However, neither of the flight legs mentioned above was entirely over the ocean. If anything went wrong, there would be many possible airports to land on the U.S. East Coast and in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries, respectively. On a hypothetical Recife-Ascension flight, the safety margin would be too thin - any detour from the route due to weather or a strong headwind could make the plane run out of fuel and crash in the middle of the Atlantic. Besides, even if the Phenom 100's range were somewhat longer, such a flight would take at least 3 hours. That would require at least a 90-minute ETOPS certification, and I don't think the Phenom 100 has it.

                              Yet Ascension Island is what makes it possible for TAAG (the Angolan national airline) to fly from Luanda to Rio and São Paulo using two-engine Boeing 777s - range is not a problem, but ETOPS would be. South of that route, South African Airways has to fly Johannesburg-São Paulo on four-engined Airbus A340s, otherwise it would have to make a long detour north to near Ascension. Not even an ETOPS-330 certified two-engine plane (which the 787 will be) could fly that route.

                              As for John Mayson's wish to visit Ascension, I would like to go there, too. Who knows, maybe one day... There used to be a nice Yahoo group of the islanders, former residents and friends of the island. It's not exactly easy to visit, but it's much easier than going to, say, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar or North Korea. Your visit has to be pre-approved by the local government (which shouldn't be a big problem if you clearly state what you're going to do), and you can go there on a RAF flight that is open to civilians, leaving from an airbase in the UK (as well as on occasional visits by a passenger ship that services St. Helena and Ascension from Cape Town and Southampton).


                              Regards,


                              Goytá
                            • Kevin Meynell
                              Goyta, ... Are there any suitable airfields on the Brazilian Atlantic islands, such as Fernando de Noronha? ... Does ETOPS apply to flights that are not
                              Message 14 of 15 , Sep 19, 2011
                                Goyta,

                                > I measured the distance from Ascension Island to Recife (which appears
                                > to be the nearest Brazilian airport) on Google Earth and obtained
                                > 2,260 km (1,404 miles).

                                Are there any suitable airfields on the Brazilian Atlantic islands, such
                                as Fernando de Noronha?

                                > That would require at least a 90-minute ETOPS certification, and I
                                > don't think the Phenom 100 has it.

                                Does ETOPS apply to flights that are not undertaken in a public carrier
                                capacity?

                                Regards,

                                Kevin Meynell
                              • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
                                ... Fernando de Noronha has an airport that can receive up to medium-sized jets (Boeing 737/Airbus A320), and it regularly does, as it is a popular vacation
                                Message 15 of 15 , Sep 19, 2011
                                  > Are there any suitable airfields on the Brazilian Atlantic islands,
                                  > such as Fernando de Noronha?


                                  Fernando de Noronha has an airport that can receive up to medium-sized jets (Boeing 737/Airbus A320), and it regularly does, as it is a popular vacation destination, but I'm not sure about refueling facilities there, and it's too close to the Brazilian mainland to be of practical significance in terms of a flight to Ascension or West Africa.

                                  The other islands have no permanent population and are either too small (Rocas Atoll, St. Peter and St. Paul, Martim Vaz) or with too rugged terrain for an airfield (Trindade). Aviator Gago Coutinho did land off St. Peter and St. Paul on his pioneer first crossing of the South Atlantic by air, but he was on a hydroplane and there was a ship waiting to help him refuel.

                                  Recife has a full international airport with 747 capacity and would be the natural choice. It is regularly used by Embraer to deliver its larger ERJ airliners (which have a much longer range than the Phenom 100, enough to cross the Atlantic from Recife to Sal Island in Cape Verde, the route they usually fly on delivery flights to Europe, Africa and Asia).


                                  > Does ETOPS apply to flights that are not undertaken in a public
                                  > carrier capacity?


                                  As far as I know, it does, except if there is no alternative and the plane would otherwise be stranded (e.g., the ETOPS alternative was unreachable due to bad weather when the plane had an engine failure, so it had to fly for longer than its certification to reach the next-nearest airport - there was once such a case with a United 777 over the Pacific, I think).


                                  Regards,


                                  Goytá
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