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Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

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  • Hugh Wallis
    There is a railway tunnel very close to the BEDENL tripoint - I think it is just BEDE w.r.t border crossing I believe also that the former East/West Berlin had
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
      There is a railway tunnel very close to the BEDENL tripoint - I think it is just BEDE w.r.t border crossing

      I believe also that the former East/West Berlin had subways that ran between them and operated across the border under strict security (to avoid them being used for "escaping") - leaving the west, entering the east and not stopping, then re-entering the west IIRC


      On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:

      Do you know more underground borders?

    • Dallen Timothy
      The France-Andorra tunnel is entirely inside Andorra, so the border doesn t really go inside the tunnel. ________________________________ From:
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011

        The France-Andorra tunnel is entirely inside Andorra , so the border doesn’t really go inside the tunnel.

         

         

         


        From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
        Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:09 AM
        To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

         

         

        France-Andorra tunnel

         

         

        On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:



        Do you know more underground borders?

         

      • Lowell G. McManus
        There are also international highway and/or railroad tunnels under the Andorra-France, Austria-Slovenia, France-Monaco, Italy-Switzerland, and Mexico-USA
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
          There are also international highway and/or railroad tunnels under the Andorra-France, Austria-Slovenia, France-Monaco, Italy-Switzerland, and Mexico-USA boundaries.  There could be more.
           
          Of course there are many underground crossings of boundaries between sub-national civil divisions.  Perhaps the most bizarre of these is at the tripoint among the American states of Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee, which exists inside a subterranean cavern as well as on the earth's surface.
           
          Lowell G. McManus
          Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
           
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:55 AM
          Subject: [borderpoint] The underground borders

          Hi folks!

          I'm writing about underground borders and I've found some of them I find interesting.

          My favourite one, of course, is the border at the Third Tunnel of Agression, under the DMZ in Korea, but there are a lot more. Montblanc Tunnel or Cristo Redentor Tunnel, between Chile and Argentina, the Chunnel or the recent Perthus Tunnel between Spain and France. One you can easily visit is this one, the border ATDE at the salt mines of Dürnberg. Do you know more underground borders?

          Regards

          Diego

          --
          http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
        • Dallen Timothy
          I guess I should have said, isn t the tunnel completely inside Andorra? There are only bridged where the roads cross from France into Andorra at the actual
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011

             

            I guess I should have said, isn’t the tunnel completely inside Andorra ? There are only bridged where the roads cross from France into Andorra at the actual borderline.

             

             


            From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
            Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:09 AM
            To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

             

             

            France-Andorra tunnel

             

             

            On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:



            Do you know more underground borders?

             

          • Hugh Wallis
            Oh yes - should have checked the maps first - I was going from memory of having driven that road and my impressions at the time (which were obviously mistaken)
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
              Oh yes - should have checked the maps first - I was going from memory of having driven that road and my impressions at the time (which were obviously mistaken)

              http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=andorra&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Andorra&gl=ca&ll=42.547469,1.735008&spn=0.003857,0.007285&t=h&z=18

              On 2011-06-20, at 11:11 , Dallen Timothy wrote:

               

               

              I guess I should have said, isn’t the tunnel completely inside Andorra ? There are only bridged where the roads cross from France into Andorra at the actual borderline.

               

               


              From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
              Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:09 AM
              To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

               

               

              France-Andorra tunnel

               

               

              On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:



              Do you know more underground borders?

               



            • Kevin Meynell
              ... The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France. Regards, Kevin Meynell
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                > Do you know more underground borders?

                The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.

                Regards,

                Kevin Meynell
              • Artur Kroc
                Hi,for example HUSK cave complex Baradla-Domica (scheme: http://www.fsz.bme.hu/mtsz/barlang/terkep/mo/barad_f.htm )or PLSK Łupkowski tunnel - 416 m long, of
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011

                  Hi,

                  for example HUSK cave complex Baradla-Domica (scheme: http://www.fsz.bme.hu/mtsz/barlang/terkep/mo/barad_f.htm )

                  or PLSK Łupkowski tunnel - 416 m long, of which 234 m in Slovakia (Slovak entrance: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/87273 )

                  Artur

                  "Diego González" <fronterasblog@...> pisze:



                   

                  Hi folks!

                  I'm writing about underground borders and I've found some of them I find interesting.

                  My favourite one, of course, is the border at the Third Tunnel of Agression, under the DMZ in Korea, but there are a lot more. Montblanc Tunnel or Cristo Redentor Tunnel, between Chile and Argentina, the Chunnel or the recent Perthus Tunnel between Spain and France. One you can easily visit is this one, the border ATDE at the salt mines of Dürnberg. Do you know more underground borders?

                  Regards

                  Diego

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                  http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com





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                • Barry Arnold
                  How strange you were thinking of these. I will be visiting the AT/DE salt mine border in the summer.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                    How strange you were thinking of these. I will be visiting the AT/DE salt mine border in the summer. http://www.salzwelten.at/salz_en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29&Itemid=61

                    Barry


                    To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                    From: fronterasblog@...
                    Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:55:12 +0200
                    Subject: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                     
                    Hi folks!

                    I'm writing about underground borders and I've found some of them I find interesting.

                    My favourite one, of course, is the border at the Third Tunnel of Agression, under the DMZ in Korea, but there are a lot more. Montblanc Tunnel or Cristo Redentor Tunnel, between Chile and Argentina, the Chunnel or the recent Perthus Tunnel between Spain and France. One you can easily visit is this one, the border ATDE at the salt mines of Dürnberg. Do you know more underground borders?

                    Regards

                    Diego

                    --
                    http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com

                  • Diego González
                    Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel inside Andorran
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                      Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about four kilometers away from the actual border.

                      I've found another one; the Windsor Tunnel between Detroit and Windsor.

                      About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70 spanish and french policeman and paramedical.

                      The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird border crossing I've ever heard...

                      2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@...>
                       

                      > Do you know more underground borders?

                      The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.

                      Regards,

                      Kevin Meynell




                      --
                      http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                    • Christopher R. Merlo
                      ... I don t think anyone has mentioned the Detroit-Windsor tunnel yet. -c
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                        On Monday, June 20, 2011, Diego González <fronterasblog@...> wrote:

                        > Do you know more underground borders?

                        I don't think anyone has mentioned the Detroit-Windsor tunnel yet.
                        -c
                      • Lowell G. McManus
                        How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels? Here s a photo of the boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                          How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels?  Here's a photo of the boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                           
                          There is also a rail tunnel at Detroit/Windsor called the Michigan Central Railway Tunnel.  The Paul M. Tellier Tunnel, a different international rail tunnel, exists on CAUS between Port Huron, Michigan, and Sarnia, Ontario.  When this modern tunnel was opened in the 1990's, the century-old St. Clair Tunnel there was sealed.
                           
                          Lowell G. McManus
                          Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 11:04 AM
                          Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                          Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about four kilometers away from the actual border.

                          I've found another one; the Windsor Tunnel between Detroit and Windsor.

                          About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70 spanish and french policeman and paramedical.

                          The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird border crossing I've ever heard...

                          2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@...>
                           

                          > Do you know more underground borders?

                          The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.

                          Regards,

                          Kevin Meynell




                          --
                          http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                        • Len Nadybal
                          There s was a Yugoslavia-Austria railway tunnel with the border crossing in the tunnel. I was on that train once, as it was locked upon leaving Yugo and was
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                            There's was a Yugoslavia-Austria railway tunnel with the border crossing
                            in the tunnel. I was on that train once, as it was locked upon leaving
                            Yugo and was unlocked by the Austrians when the train emerged from the
                            tunnel. With Yugo's disappearance, I'm no longer certain if it's now a
                            Serbia-Austria or a Slovenia-Austrian tunnel.

                            We are thinking only in terms of such borders (more precisely
                            "underground border crossings") with respect to transportation (and a
                            few natural caves) - but there are many related to buried utility lines
                            all over the world - theoretically they can be found everywhere
                            sovereignty over a piece of territory moved to a neighbor, among other
                            places.

                            Someone mentioned the Korea spy caves - there are also many refugee and
                            smuggler caves (i.e., Mexico - US and Gaza) and some places in Israel
                            where roads go under Palestinian governed flecks.

                            LN




                            Lowell G. McManus wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels? Here's a photo of the
                            > boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg
                            >
                            > There is also a rail tunnel at Detroit/Windsor called the Michigan
                            > Central Railway Tunnel. The Paul M. Tellier Tunnel, a different
                            > international rail tunnel, exists on CAUS between Port Huron,
                            > Michigan, and Sarnia, Ontario. When this modern tunnel was opened in
                            > the 1990's, the century-old St. Clair Tunnel there was sealed.
                            >
                            > Lowell G. McManus
                            > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > *From:* Diego González <mailto:fronterasblog@...>
                            > *To:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
                            > *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 11:04 AM
                            > *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders
                            >
                            > Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France
                            > exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel
                            > inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about
                            > four kilometers away from the actual border.
                            >
                            > I've found another one; the Windsor Tunne
                            > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg>l
                            > between Detroit and Windsor.
                            >
                            > About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during
                            > an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between
                            > Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she
                            > was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the
                            > Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70
                            > spanish and french policeman and paramedical.
                            >
                            > The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird
                            > border crossing I've ever heard...
                            >
                            > 2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@... <mailto:kevin@...>>
                            >
                            >
                            > > Do you know more underground borders?
                            >
                            > The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Kevin Meynell
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                          • Doug Murray
                            Must be this tunnel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karawanken_Tunnel_%28railway%29 And speaking of drug tunnels, there s been a few between Washington State,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                              Must be this tunnel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karawanken_Tunnel_%28railway%29

                              And speaking of drug tunnels, there's been a few between Washington State, USA and British Columbia, Canada.


                              On 20/06/11 10:18 PM, Len Nadybal wrote:
                              There's was a Yugoslavia-Austria railway tunnel with the border crossing 
                              in the tunnel.  I was on that train once, as it was locked upon leaving 
                              Yugo and was unlocked by the Austrians when the train emerged from the 
                              tunnel.   With Yugo's disappearance, I'm no longer certain if it's now a 
                              Serbia-Austria or a Slovenia-Austrian tunnel. 
                              
                              We are thinking only in terms of such borders (more precisely 
                              "underground border crossings") with respect to transportation (and a 
                              few natural caves)  - but there are many related to buried utility lines 
                              all over the world - theoretically they can be found everywhere 
                              sovereignty over a piece of territory moved to a neighbor, among other 
                              places. 
                              
                              Someone mentioned the Korea spy caves - there are also many refugee and 
                              smuggler caves (i.e., Mexico - US and Gaza) and some places in Israel 
                              where roads go under Palestinian governed flecks.
                              
                              LN
                              
                              
                              
                              
                              Lowell G. McManus wrote:
                              
                              
                              How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels?  Here's a photo of the 
                              boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg
                               
                              There is also a rail tunnel at Detroit/Windsor called the Michigan 
                              Central Railway Tunnel.  The Paul M. Tellier Tunnel, a different 
                              international rail tunnel, exists on CAUS between Port Huron, 
                              Michigan, and Sarnia, Ontario.  When this modern tunnel was opened in 
                              the 1990's, the century-old St. Clair Tunnel there was sealed.
                               
                              Lowell G. McManus
                              Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                               
                               
                              
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  *From:* Diego González <mailto:fronterasblog@...>
                                  *To:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
                                  *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 11:04 AM
                                  *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders
                              
                                  Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France
                                  exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel
                                  inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about
                                  four kilometers away from the actual border.
                              
                                  I've found another one; the Windsor Tunne
                                  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg>l
                                  between Detroit and Windsor.
                              
                                  About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during
                                  an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between
                                  Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she
                                  was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the
                                  Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70
                                  spanish and french policeman and paramedical.
                              
                                  The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird
                                  border crossing I've ever heard...
                              
                                  2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@... <mailto:kevin@...>>
                              
                                       
                                      > Do you know more underground borders?
                              
                                      The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.
                              
                                      Regards,
                              
                                      Kevin Meynell
                              
                              
                              
                              
                                  -- 
                                  http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                              
                              
                              
                              
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                            • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
                              ... Slovenia-Austria, certainly, because of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia is the only one that borders Austria. Serbia doesn t come even close. Where
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                                > With Yugo's disappearance, I'm no longer certain if it's now a
                                > Serbia-Austria or a Slovenia-Austrian tunnel.


                                Slovenia-Austria, certainly, because of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia is the only one that borders Austria. Serbia doesn't come even close. Where is Alex, by the way? I haven't heard from him in a long time.

                                In addition to the Mont Blanc tunnel, I also remembered some more Alpine border crossing tunnels:

                                - the Fréjus road and railway tunnels between Modane, France and Bardonecchia, Italy;

                                - the Great Saint Bernard road tunnel between Bourg-Saint-Pierre, Switzerland and Saint-Rhémy-en-Bosses, Italy (Aosta Valley, hence the French name);

                                - and the Simplon railway tunnel between Brig, Switzerland and Domodossola, Italy.


                                Regards,


                                Goytá
                              • bty525218
                                ... Slovenia is the only one that borders Austria. I ve found a Slovenian webpage with some pictures of the Karawanken Tunnel and the sixth and seventh photos
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 21, 2011


                                  --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Goyta' F. Villela Jr." <goytabr@...> wrote:
                                  > Slovenia-Austria, certainly, because of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia is the only one that borders >Austria.

                                  I've found a Slovenian webpage with some pictures of the Karawanken Tunnel and the sixth and seventh photos appear to show the actual border marker:

                                  http://vlaki.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4215

                                • Hugh Wallis
                                  These being mostly for nefarious purposes right? Add MXUS to that list :)
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 21, 2011
                                    These being mostly for nefarious purposes right?

                                    Add MXUS to that list :)


                                    On 2011-06-20, at 21:22 , Doug Murray wrote:

                                    there's been a few between Washington State, USA and British Columbia, Canada

                                  • Lowell G. McManus
                                    There are illegal tunnels designed to smuggle drugs, etc., but there is one very legitimate railroad tunnel under MXUS. The San Diego & Arizona Railway opened
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 21, 2011
                                      There are illegal tunnels designed to smuggle drugs, etc., but there is one very legitimate railroad tunnel under MXUS.  The San Diego & Arizona Railway opened Tunnel 4 to traffic in 1916 between Lindero, Baja California, in Mexico and Division, California, in the USA.  The tunnel is 598 feet long, 28.5 feet of which is in Mexico and 569.5 feet in the USA.  Today, that rail route is operated by Carrizo Gorge Railway, Inc.
                                       
                                      Lowell G. McManus
                                      Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                                       
                                       
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:56 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                                      These being mostly for nefarious purposes right?

                                      Add MXUS to that list :)


                                      On 2011-06-20, at 21:22 , Doug Murray wrote:

                                      there's been a few between Washington State, USA and British Columbia, Canada

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