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Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

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  • Hugh Wallis
    France-Andorra tunnel ... France-Andorra tunnel On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote: Do you know more underground borders?
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
      France-Andorra tunnel


      On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:

      Do you know more underground borders?

    • Hugh Wallis
      There is a railway tunnel very close to the BEDENL tripoint - I think it is just BEDE w.r.t border crossing I believe also that the former East/West Berlin had
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
        There is a railway tunnel very close to the BEDENL tripoint - I think it is just BEDE w.r.t border crossing

        I believe also that the former East/West Berlin had subways that ran between them and operated across the border under strict security (to avoid them being used for "escaping") - leaving the west, entering the east and not stopping, then re-entering the west IIRC


        On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:

        Do you know more underground borders?

      • Dallen Timothy
        The France-Andorra tunnel is entirely inside Andorra, so the border doesn t really go inside the tunnel. ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011

          The France-Andorra tunnel is entirely inside Andorra , so the border doesn’t really go inside the tunnel.

           

           

           


          From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
          Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:09 AM
          To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

           

           

          France-Andorra tunnel

           

           

          On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:



          Do you know more underground borders?

           

        • Lowell G. McManus
          There are also international highway and/or railroad tunnels under the Andorra-France, Austria-Slovenia, France-Monaco, Italy-Switzerland, and Mexico-USA
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
            There are also international highway and/or railroad tunnels under the Andorra-France, Austria-Slovenia, France-Monaco, Italy-Switzerland, and Mexico-USA boundaries.  There could be more.
             
            Of course there are many underground crossings of boundaries between sub-national civil divisions.  Perhaps the most bizarre of these is at the tripoint among the American states of Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee, which exists inside a subterranean cavern as well as on the earth's surface.
             
            Lowell G. McManus
            Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
             
             
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:55 AM
            Subject: [borderpoint] The underground borders

            Hi folks!

            I'm writing about underground borders and I've found some of them I find interesting.

            My favourite one, of course, is the border at the Third Tunnel of Agression, under the DMZ in Korea, but there are a lot more. Montblanc Tunnel or Cristo Redentor Tunnel, between Chile and Argentina, the Chunnel or the recent Perthus Tunnel between Spain and France. One you can easily visit is this one, the border ATDE at the salt mines of Dürnberg. Do you know more underground borders?

            Regards

            Diego

            --
            http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
          • Dallen Timothy
            I guess I should have said, isn t the tunnel completely inside Andorra? There are only bridged where the roads cross from France into Andorra at the actual
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011

               

              I guess I should have said, isn’t the tunnel completely inside Andorra ? There are only bridged where the roads cross from France into Andorra at the actual borderline.

               

               


              From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
              Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:09 AM
              To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

               

               

              France-Andorra tunnel

               

               

              On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:



              Do you know more underground borders?

               

            • Hugh Wallis
              Oh yes - should have checked the maps first - I was going from memory of having driven that road and my impressions at the time (which were obviously mistaken)
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                Oh yes - should have checked the maps first - I was going from memory of having driven that road and my impressions at the time (which were obviously mistaken)

                http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=andorra&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Andorra&gl=ca&ll=42.547469,1.735008&spn=0.003857,0.007285&t=h&z=18

                On 2011-06-20, at 11:11 , Dallen Timothy wrote:

                 

                 

                I guess I should have said, isn’t the tunnel completely inside Andorra ? There are only bridged where the roads cross from France into Andorra at the actual borderline.

                 

                 


                From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Wallis
                Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:09 AM
                To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                 

                 

                France-Andorra tunnel

                 

                 

                On 2011-06-20, at 09:55 , Diego González wrote:



                Do you know more underground borders?

                 



              • Kevin Meynell
                ... The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France. Regards, Kevin Meynell
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                  > Do you know more underground borders?

                  The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.

                  Regards,

                  Kevin Meynell
                • Artur Kroc
                  Hi,for example HUSK cave complex Baradla-Domica (scheme: http://www.fsz.bme.hu/mtsz/barlang/terkep/mo/barad_f.htm )or PLSK Łupkowski tunnel - 416 m long, of
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011

                    Hi,

                    for example HUSK cave complex Baradla-Domica (scheme: http://www.fsz.bme.hu/mtsz/barlang/terkep/mo/barad_f.htm )

                    or PLSK Łupkowski tunnel - 416 m long, of which 234 m in Slovakia (Slovak entrance: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/87273 )

                    Artur

                    "Diego González" <fronterasblog@...> pisze:



                     

                    Hi folks!

                    I'm writing about underground borders and I've found some of them I find interesting.

                    My favourite one, of course, is the border at the Third Tunnel of Agression, under the DMZ in Korea, but there are a lot more. Montblanc Tunnel or Cristo Redentor Tunnel, between Chile and Argentina, the Chunnel or the recent Perthus Tunnel between Spain and France. One you can easily visit is this one, the border ATDE at the salt mines of Dürnberg. Do you know more underground borders?

                    Regards

                    Diego

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                  • Barry Arnold
                    How strange you were thinking of these. I will be visiting the AT/DE salt mine border in the summer.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                      How strange you were thinking of these. I will be visiting the AT/DE salt mine border in the summer. http://www.salzwelten.at/salz_en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29&Itemid=61

                      Barry


                      To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                      From: fronterasblog@...
                      Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:55:12 +0200
                      Subject: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                       
                      Hi folks!

                      I'm writing about underground borders and I've found some of them I find interesting.

                      My favourite one, of course, is the border at the Third Tunnel of Agression, under the DMZ in Korea, but there are a lot more. Montblanc Tunnel or Cristo Redentor Tunnel, between Chile and Argentina, the Chunnel or the recent Perthus Tunnel between Spain and France. One you can easily visit is this one, the border ATDE at the salt mines of Dürnberg. Do you know more underground borders?

                      Regards

                      Diego

                      --
                      http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com

                    • Diego González
                      Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel inside Andorran
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                        Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about four kilometers away from the actual border.

                        I've found another one; the Windsor Tunnel between Detroit and Windsor.

                        About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70 spanish and french policeman and paramedical.

                        The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird border crossing I've ever heard...

                        2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@...>
                         

                        > Do you know more underground borders?

                        The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.

                        Regards,

                        Kevin Meynell




                        --
                        http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                      • Christopher R. Merlo
                        ... I don t think anyone has mentioned the Detroit-Windsor tunnel yet. -c
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                          On Monday, June 20, 2011, Diego González <fronterasblog@...> wrote:

                          > Do you know more underground borders?

                          I don't think anyone has mentioned the Detroit-Windsor tunnel yet.
                          -c
                        • Lowell G. McManus
                          How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels? Here s a photo of the boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                            How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels?  Here's a photo of the boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                             
                            There is also a rail tunnel at Detroit/Windsor called the Michigan Central Railway Tunnel.  The Paul M. Tellier Tunnel, a different international rail tunnel, exists on CAUS between Port Huron, Michigan, and Sarnia, Ontario.  When this modern tunnel was opened in the 1990's, the century-old St. Clair Tunnel there was sealed.
                             
                            Lowell G. McManus
                            Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 11:04 AM
                            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                            Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about four kilometers away from the actual border.

                            I've found another one; the Windsor Tunnel between Detroit and Windsor.

                            About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70 spanish and french policeman and paramedical.

                            The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird border crossing I've ever heard...

                            2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@...>
                             

                            > Do you know more underground borders?

                            The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.

                            Regards,

                            Kevin Meynell




                            --
                            http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                          • Len Nadybal
                            There s was a Yugoslavia-Austria railway tunnel with the border crossing in the tunnel. I was on that train once, as it was locked upon leaving Yugo and was
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                              There's was a Yugoslavia-Austria railway tunnel with the border crossing
                              in the tunnel. I was on that train once, as it was locked upon leaving
                              Yugo and was unlocked by the Austrians when the train emerged from the
                              tunnel. With Yugo's disappearance, I'm no longer certain if it's now a
                              Serbia-Austria or a Slovenia-Austrian tunnel.

                              We are thinking only in terms of such borders (more precisely
                              "underground border crossings") with respect to transportation (and a
                              few natural caves) - but there are many related to buried utility lines
                              all over the world - theoretically they can be found everywhere
                              sovereignty over a piece of territory moved to a neighbor, among other
                              places.

                              Someone mentioned the Korea spy caves - there are also many refugee and
                              smuggler caves (i.e., Mexico - US and Gaza) and some places in Israel
                              where roads go under Palestinian governed flecks.

                              LN




                              Lowell G. McManus wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels? Here's a photo of the
                              > boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg
                              >
                              > There is also a rail tunnel at Detroit/Windsor called the Michigan
                              > Central Railway Tunnel. The Paul M. Tellier Tunnel, a different
                              > international rail tunnel, exists on CAUS between Port Huron,
                              > Michigan, and Sarnia, Ontario. When this modern tunnel was opened in
                              > the 1990's, the century-old St. Clair Tunnel there was sealed.
                              >
                              > Lowell G. McManus
                              > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > *From:* Diego González <mailto:fronterasblog@...>
                              > *To:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
                              > *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 11:04 AM
                              > *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders
                              >
                              > Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France
                              > exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel
                              > inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about
                              > four kilometers away from the actual border.
                              >
                              > I've found another one; the Windsor Tunne
                              > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg>l
                              > between Detroit and Windsor.
                              >
                              > About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during
                              > an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between
                              > Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she
                              > was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the
                              > Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70
                              > spanish and french policeman and paramedical.
                              >
                              > The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird
                              > border crossing I've ever heard...
                              >
                              > 2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@... <mailto:kevin@...>>
                              >
                              >
                              > > Do you know more underground borders?
                              >
                              > The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Kevin Meynell
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • Doug Murray
                              Must be this tunnel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karawanken_Tunnel_%28railway%29 And speaking of drug tunnels, there s been a few between Washington State,
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                                Must be this tunnel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karawanken_Tunnel_%28railway%29

                                And speaking of drug tunnels, there's been a few between Washington State, USA and British Columbia, Canada.


                                On 20/06/11 10:18 PM, Len Nadybal wrote:
                                There's was a Yugoslavia-Austria railway tunnel with the border crossing 
                                in the tunnel.  I was on that train once, as it was locked upon leaving 
                                Yugo and was unlocked by the Austrians when the train emerged from the 
                                tunnel.   With Yugo's disappearance, I'm no longer certain if it's now a 
                                Serbia-Austria or a Slovenia-Austrian tunnel. 
                                
                                We are thinking only in terms of such borders (more precisely 
                                "underground border crossings") with respect to transportation (and a 
                                few natural caves)  - but there are many related to buried utility lines 
                                all over the world - theoretically they can be found everywhere 
                                sovereignty over a piece of territory moved to a neighbor, among other 
                                places. 
                                
                                Someone mentioned the Korea spy caves - there are also many refugee and 
                                smuggler caves (i.e., Mexico - US and Gaza) and some places in Israel 
                                where roads go under Palestinian governed flecks.
                                
                                LN
                                
                                
                                
                                
                                Lowell G. McManus wrote:
                                
                                
                                How could I have forgotten the CAUS tunnels?  Here's a photo of the 
                                boundary within the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel:
                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg
                                 
                                There is also a rail tunnel at Detroit/Windsor called the Michigan 
                                Central Railway Tunnel.  The Paul M. Tellier Tunnel, a different 
                                international rail tunnel, exists on CAUS between Port Huron, 
                                Michigan, and Sarnia, Ontario.  When this modern tunnel was opened in 
                                the 1990's, the century-old St. Clair Tunnel there was sealed.
                                 
                                Lowell G. McManus
                                Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                                 
                                 
                                
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    *From:* Diego González <mailto:fronterasblog@...>
                                    *To:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                                    <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
                                    *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2011 11:04 AM
                                    *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders
                                
                                    Andorra Tunnel is entirely within Andorra; this country and France
                                    exchanged about 15.000 sq. meters of territory, to keep the tunnel
                                    inside Andorran territory. The french customs, however, are about
                                    four kilometers away from the actual border.
                                
                                    I've found another one; the Windsor Tunne
                                    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DetroitWindsorTunnelbordercrossing.jpg>l
                                    between Detroit and Windsor.
                                
                                    About three years ago, a french espeleologist broke her leg during
                                    an expedition inside a 700 meters-deep cave at the border between
                                    Spain and France. She had entered the cave from France, but she
                                    was rescued by a Spanish rescue unit in the Navarrean side of the
                                    Pyrenees after three days of searching by a group of more than 70
                                    spanish and french policeman and paramedical.
                                
                                    The name of the cave is Sima de San Martín. It's the most weird
                                    border crossing I've ever heard...
                                
                                    2011/6/20 Kevin Meynell <kevin@... <mailto:kevin@...>>
                                
                                         
                                        > Do you know more underground borders?
                                
                                        The (English) Channel Tunnel between the UK and France.
                                
                                        Regards,
                                
                                        Kevin Meynell
                                
                                
                                
                                
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                                    http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                                
                                
                                
                                
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                              • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
                                ... Slovenia-Austria, certainly, because of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia is the only one that borders Austria. Serbia doesn t come even close. Where
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 20, 2011
                                  > With Yugo's disappearance, I'm no longer certain if it's now a
                                  > Serbia-Austria or a Slovenia-Austrian tunnel.


                                  Slovenia-Austria, certainly, because of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia is the only one that borders Austria. Serbia doesn't come even close. Where is Alex, by the way? I haven't heard from him in a long time.

                                  In addition to the Mont Blanc tunnel, I also remembered some more Alpine border crossing tunnels:

                                  - the Fréjus road and railway tunnels between Modane, France and Bardonecchia, Italy;

                                  - the Great Saint Bernard road tunnel between Bourg-Saint-Pierre, Switzerland and Saint-Rhémy-en-Bosses, Italy (Aosta Valley, hence the French name);

                                  - and the Simplon railway tunnel between Brig, Switzerland and Domodossola, Italy.


                                  Regards,


                                  Goytá
                                • bty525218
                                  ... Slovenia is the only one that borders Austria. I ve found a Slovenian webpage with some pictures of the Karawanken Tunnel and the sixth and seventh photos
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 21, 2011


                                    --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Goyta' F. Villela Jr." <goytabr@...> wrote:
                                    > Slovenia-Austria, certainly, because of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia is the only one that borders >Austria.

                                    I've found a Slovenian webpage with some pictures of the Karawanken Tunnel and the sixth and seventh photos appear to show the actual border marker:

                                    http://vlaki.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4215

                                  • Hugh Wallis
                                    These being mostly for nefarious purposes right? Add MXUS to that list :)
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 21, 2011
                                      These being mostly for nefarious purposes right?

                                      Add MXUS to that list :)


                                      On 2011-06-20, at 21:22 , Doug Murray wrote:

                                      there's been a few between Washington State, USA and British Columbia, Canada

                                    • Lowell G. McManus
                                      There are illegal tunnels designed to smuggle drugs, etc., but there is one very legitimate railroad tunnel under MXUS. The San Diego & Arizona Railway opened
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 21, 2011
                                        There are illegal tunnels designed to smuggle drugs, etc., but there is one very legitimate railroad tunnel under MXUS.  The San Diego & Arizona Railway opened Tunnel 4 to traffic in 1916 between Lindero, Baja California, in Mexico and Division, California, in the USA.  The tunnel is 598 feet long, 28.5 feet of which is in Mexico and 569.5 feet in the USA.  Today, that rail route is operated by Carrizo Gorge Railway, Inc.
                                         
                                        Lowell G. McManus
                                        Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                                         
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:56 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [borderpoint] The underground borders

                                        These being mostly for nefarious purposes right?

                                        Add MXUS to that list :)


                                        On 2011-06-20, at 21:22 , Doug Murray wrote:

                                        there's been a few between Washington State, USA and British Columbia, Canada

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