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Mayotte

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  • Lowell G. McManus
    Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
      Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic.  Mayotte becomes the 101st French département.  It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
       
      Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
       
      Lowell G. McManus
      Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
    • Dallen Timothy
      John, there is quite a list of British, French, Dutch and Danish overseas territories that are not part of the EU, even though their mother states are. See
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011

        John, there is quite a list of British, French, Dutch and Danish overseas territories that are not part of the EU, even though their mother states are. See http://eeas.europa.eu/oct/index_en.htm

        for examples. Most of the British, French and Dutch Caribbean territories are not part of the EU. Martinique and Guadalupe are, because they are an integral part of the French state and department.

        Dallen

         

         


        From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Mayson
        Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:17 PM
        To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

         

         

        Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

        On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:

        > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean
        (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic . Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
        >
        > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
        >
        > Lowell G.
        McManus
        > Eagle Pass ,
        w:st="on">Texas , USA

      • Lowell G. McManus
        I ll defer to our European members to explain such complexities. Lowell G. McManus Eagle Pass, Texas, USA ... From: John Mayson To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
          
          I'll defer to our European members to explain such complexities.
           
          Lowell G. McManus
          Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:16 PM
          Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

          Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

          On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
          > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
          >
          > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
          >
          > Lowell G. McManus
          > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
        • R Novacovschi
          After writing many thousands of words on this forum on the complexities of various North-American situations/borders/jurisdictions I am surprised that you are
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011

            After writing many thousands of words on this forum on the complexities of various North-American situations/borders/jurisdictions I am surprised that you are surprised, Lowell. Life’s equally complicated this side of the pond!

             

            Razvan

             

            From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lowell G. McManus
            Sent: 02 April 2011 00-31
            To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

             

             

            

            I'll defer to our European members to explain such complexities.

             

            Lowell G. McManus
            Eagle Pass, Texas, USA

             

             

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:16 PM

            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

             

            Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

            On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
            > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
            >
            > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
            >
            > Lowell G. McManus
            > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA

          • Len Nadybal
            There is a paper from the EU that explicitly discussed the particulars of St. Pierre and Mayotte in case they were to become part of Metropolitan France (and
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
              There is a paper from the EU that explicitly discussed the particulars
              of St. Pierre and Mayotte in case they were to become part of
              Metropolitan France (and covered about a dozen other anomaly areas of F,
              GB and Spain).
              Try a search via Europa.eu - it must be posted there (1999-2001 time frame).

              Len




              John Mayson wrote:
              >
              >
              > I guess it's one of those things. :-)
              >
              > To me it'd be like saying Hawaii isn't part of NATO or something like
              > that.
              >
              > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@...
              > <mailto:Dallen.Timothy@...>> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > John, there is quite a list of British, French, Dutch and Danish
              > overseas territories that are not part of the EU, even though
              > their mother states are. See http://eeas.europa.eu/oct/index_en.htm
              >
              > for examples. Most of the British, French and Dutch Caribbean
              > territories are not part of the EU. Martinique and Guadalupe are,
              > because they are an integral part of the French state and department.
              >
              > Dallen
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > *From:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
              > [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *John Mayson
              > *Sent:* Friday, April 01, 2011 4:17 PM
              > *To:* borderpoint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
              > *Subject:* Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of
              > a member country?
              >
              > On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...
              > <mailto:lgm@...>> wrote:
              > > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian
              > Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were
              > elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French
              > Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to
              > become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
              > >
              > > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
              > >
              > > Lowell G. McManus
              > > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > John Mayson <john@... <mailto:john@...>>
              > Austin, Texas, USA
              >
              >
              >
              > _______________________________________________________
              > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
              > http://www.doteasy.com



              _______________________________________________________
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            • Lowell G. McManus
              Oh, Razvan, I m not the least bit surprised! I m deferring to Europeans to explain the mysteries of the EU only because I am admittedly incompetent to do so.
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 1, 2011
                
                Oh, Razvan, I'm not the least bit surprised!  I'm deferring to Europeans to explain the mysteries of the EU only because I am admittedly incompetent to do so.
                 
                Lowell G. McManus
                Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:46 PM
                Subject: RE: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                After writing many thousands of words on this forum on the complexities of various North-American situations/borders/jurisdictions I am surprised that you are surprised, Lowell. Life’s equally complicated this side of the pond!

                 

                Razvan

                 

                From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lowell G. McManus
                Sent: 02 April 2011 00-31
                To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                 

                 

                

                I'll defer to our European members to explain such complexities.

                 

                Lowell G. McManus
                Eagle Pass, Texas, USA

                 

                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:16 PM

                Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                 

                Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

                On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
                > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
                >
                > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
                >
                > Lowell G. McManus
                > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA

              • Kevin Meynell
                ... According to the various treaties that establish the EU, certain regions have derogations as negotiated by their parent state. These regions are mostly
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 2, 2011
                  > Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a
                  > member country?

                  According to the various treaties that establish the EU, certain regions
                  have derogations as negotiated by their parent state. These regions are
                  mostly overseas (dependent) territories, although there are of course
                  other regions like Livigno and Mount Athos which are within the
                  territory of their parent state.

                  Derogations include exclusion from most/all EU laws and provisions,
                  being within or outside the customs union, being within or outside the
                  VAT area, being within or outside the Schengen zone, being within or
                  outside the eurozone, being part of the common agriculture and fisheries
                  policy or not, having EU citizenship or not, and so forth.

                  As I understand it, the most recent Treaty of Lisbon (2009) requires the
                  European Council to ratify any changed status of overseas territories,
                  and there is a specific provision for Mayotte.

                  There is a similar situation with the so-called BES islands of the
                  Netherlands. With the dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles, Bonaire,
                  Sint Eustatius and Saba have become part of the Netherlands proper, but
                  are not currently within the EU.

                  Regards,

                  Kevin Meynell
                • Len Nadybal
                  That situation with the BES islands vis-a-vis the motherland is interesting and quite a dichotomy. They claim themselves to be independent nations within
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 2, 2011
                    That situation with the "BES" islands vis-a-vis the "motherland" is
                    interesting and quite a dichotomy. They claim themselves to be
                    "independent nations within the Kingdom", as though the Kingdom was
                    something larger than motherland Netherlands. If the BES islands are
                    part and parcel of the Netherlands (meaning the part inside the borders
                    in Europe), then the Netherlands is a country with multiple currencies
                    and a country that officially uses another country's money in parts of
                    it (the US$). It's a country that is issuing stamps good only in
                    certain part of it and not in others (you can't use the Dutch stamps
                    issued for use in St. Maarten on the "mainland"). All of this
                    maneuvering doesn't point to a situation where a unified nation really
                    exists.

                    The relationship of the UK to GB and GB to the "peculiarities of the
                    Crown" called Jersey and Guernsey are similar.

                    France and Guadeloupe - that's gone back and forth over the last 100
                    years or so from being part of metropolitan France to not being a part
                    then being a part again, and then not, and then...

                    This situation seems to be little more than political fiction.

                    Len


                    Kevin Meynell wrote:
                    >> Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a
                    >> member country?
                    >>
                    >
                    > According to the various treaties that establish the EU, certain regions
                    > have derogations as negotiated by their parent state. These regions are
                    > mostly overseas (dependent) territories, although there are of course
                    > other regions like Livigno and Mount Athos which are within the
                    > territory of their parent state.
                    >
                    > Derogations include exclusion from most/all EU laws and provisions,
                    > being within or outside the customs union, being within or outside the
                    > VAT area, being within or outside the Schengen zone, being within or
                    > outside the eurozone, being part of the common agriculture and fisheries
                    > policy or not, having EU citizenship or not, and so forth.
                    >
                    > As I understand it, the most recent Treaty of Lisbon (2009) requires the
                    > European Council to ratify any changed status of overseas territories,
                    > and there is a specific provision for Mayotte.
                    >
                    > There is a similar situation with the so-called BES islands of the
                    > Netherlands. With the dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles, Bonaire,
                    > Sint Eustatius and Saba have become part of the Netherlands proper, but
                    > are not currently within the EU.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Kevin Meynell
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _______________________________________________________
                    > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
                    > http://www.doteasy.com
                    >
                    >



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                  • Kevin Meynell
                    Len, ... The British situation is actually a bit different to that of the Netherlands and Denmark. Those countries have a statutory constitutional definition
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 2, 2011
                      Len,

                      > The relationship of the UK to GB and GB to the "peculiarities of the
                      > Crown" called Jersey and Guernsey are similar.
                      >

                      The British situation is actually a bit different to that of the
                      Netherlands and Denmark. Those countries have a statutory constitutional
                      definition of the Kingdom which encompasses their overseas territories,
                      even if those territories are considered autonomous or even countries.
                      Those Kingdoms also have the concept of a common citizenship, and have
                      constitutionally defined relations with the parent state.

                      By contrast, the UK has no formal concept of a realm encompassing its
                      external territories. The territories are not constitutionally part of
                      the UK and their relationship with the UK is largely by unwritten
                      convention - the level of autonomy differing from territory-to-territory
                      in accordance with various agreements made over time. The important
                      point though, is that legislative authority over the territories lies
                      with the Crown and the Privy Council and not the Westminster Parliament.
                      Of course, the UK, the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories do
                      constitute a British Realm in practice, but this is an informal and even
                      unknown concept amongst the population.

                      France to me is more simple - there's metropolitan France which
                      incorporates some overseas territories, and non-metropolitan France.
                      They collectively constitute the French Republic which clearly defines
                      the status and arrangements for each constituent part.

                      > If the BES islands are part and parcel of the Netherlands (meaning the
                      > part inside the borders in Europe), then the Netherlands is a country
                      > with multiple currencies and a country that officially uses another
                      > country's money in parts of it (the US$).

                      It's not an arrangement without precedent. Don't the exclaves of
                      Campione d'Italia and Buesingen use the Swiss Franc, and the US dollar
                      is the de-facto currency of French St. Martin if not St. Barts as well?

                      Regards,

                      Kevin Meynell
                    • Len Nadybal
                      Thanks for that - the French situation is odd, though, because each republic or government, etc., seems to want to change the status of the overseas areas to
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 2, 2011
                        Thanks for that - the French situation is odd, though, because each
                        republic or government, etc., seems to want to change the status of the
                        overseas areas to suit political purposes.
                        There are horrible riots going on in Guadeloupe and Martinique over
                        autonomy vs. independence vs. assimilation into metropolitan France.
                        What constitutes the republic from time to time seems decided in Paris
                        on a whim.

                        Campione uses the Euro a does Büsingen. Swiss Francs are accepted at
                        par and prices are shown in both currencies in shop prices on a
                        voluntary basis but are not legal tender. Does anyone know for certain
                        if Campione is within the Swiss customs area?
                        In the casino in Campione, it's illegal to bet on the games using Swiss
                        currency (except Boule, I think for up to SFr 5,-)
                        In Büsingen there are German and Swiss pay phones needing appropriate
                        coins from each country to operate them, and there are bus lines from
                        both countries and each bus line needs tickets bought in the respective
                        country and currency.
                        I'll have to check my literature on the taxes and payments for cutsoms
                        duty, health care under the respective health systems, because I know
                        that residents in Büsingen have to file in one country (Germany, I
                        think), which then performs the exchange into Swiss currency and remits
                        to the Swiss when appropriate (i.e., when a Swiss ambulance performs
                        service for a German in Büsingen. etc.). I have those details - I'll
                        have to take a refresher look at it.
                        Neither exclave is handled as a special case under the European
                        community treaties like the overseas territories are.

                        In St. Maarten, the dollar is accepted widely, but its not legal
                        tender. The dollar did became legal tender on a couple of the other
                        Dutch islands in the process of division - you'd think they'd just use
                        the Euro. What's odd is that one new portion of the Antilles is called
                        the "Caribbean Netherlands". That's curious in itself - indicating a
                        detached portion of the motherland in the tropics = less autonomy from
                        NL than the St Maarten "collective" or whatever it became.

                        Len





                        Kevin Meynell wrote:
                        > Len,
                        >
                        >
                        >> The relationship of the UK to GB and GB to the "peculiarities of the
                        >> Crown" called Jersey and Guernsey are similar.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        > The British situation is actually a bit different to that of the
                        > Netherlands and Denmark. Those countries have a statutory constitutional
                        > definition of the Kingdom which encompasses their overseas territories,
                        > even if those territories are considered autonomous or even countries.
                        > Those Kingdoms also have the concept of a common citizenship, and have
                        > constitutionally defined relations with the parent state.
                        >
                        > By contrast, the UK has no formal concept of a realm encompassing its
                        > external territories. The territories are not constitutionally part of
                        > the UK and their relationship with the UK is largely by unwritten
                        > convention - the level of autonomy differing from territory-to-territory
                        > in accordance with various agreements made over time. The important
                        > point though, is that legislative authority over the territories lies
                        > with the Crown and the Privy Council and not the Westminster Parliament.
                        > Of course, the UK, the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories do
                        > constitute a British Realm in practice, but this is an informal and even
                        > unknown concept amongst the population.
                        >
                        > France to me is more simple - there's metropolitan France which
                        > incorporates some overseas territories, and non-metropolitan France.
                        > They collectively constitute the French Republic which clearly defines
                        > the status and arrangements for each constituent part.
                        >
                        >
                        >> If the BES islands are part and parcel of the Netherlands (meaning the
                        >> part inside the borders in Europe), then the Netherlands is a country
                        >> with multiple currencies and a country that officially uses another
                        >> country's money in parts of it (the US$).
                        >>
                        >
                        > It's not an arrangement without precedent. Don't the exclaves of
                        > Campione d'Italia and Buesingen use the Swiss Franc, and the US dollar
                        > is the de-facto currency of French St. Martin if not St. Barts as well?
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Kevin Meynell
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _______________________________________________________
                        > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
                        > http://www.doteasy.com
                        >
                        >
                      • Len Nadybal
                        Thanks for that - the French situation is odd, though, because each republic or government, etc., seems to want to change the status of the overseas areas to
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 2, 2011
                          Thanks for that - the French situation is odd, though, because each
                          republic or government, etc., seems to want to change the status of the
                          overseas areas to suit political purposes.
                          There are horrible riots going on in Guadeloupe and Martinique over
                          autonomy vs. independence vs. assimilation into metropolitan France.
                          What constitutes the republic from time to time seems decided in Paris
                          on a whim.

                          Campione uses the Euro a does Büsingen. Swiss Francs are accepted at
                          par and prices are shown in both currencies in shop prices on a
                          voluntary basis but are not legal tender. Does anyone know for certain
                          if Campione is within the Swiss customs area?
                          In the casino in Campione, it's illegal to bet on the games using Swiss
                          currency (except Boule, I think for up to SFr 5,-)
                          In Büsingen there are German and Swiss pay phones needing appropriate
                          coins from each country to operate them, and there are bus lines from
                          both countries and each bus line needs tickets bought in the respective
                          country and currency.
                          I'll have to check my literature on the taxes and payments for cutsoms
                          duty, health care under the respective health systems, because I know
                          that residents in Büsingen have to file in one country (Germany, I
                          think), which then performs the exchange into Swiss currency and remits
                          to the Swiss when appropriate (i.e., when a Swiss ambulance performs
                          service for a German in Büsingen. etc.). I have those details - I'll
                          have to take a refresher look at it. Neither exclave is handled as a
                          special case under the European community treaties like the overseas
                          territories are.

                          In St. Maarten, the dollar is accepted widely, but its not legal
                          tender. The dollar did became legal tender on a couple of the other
                          Dutch islands in the process of division - you'd think they'd just use
                          the Euro. What's odd is that one new portion of the Antilles is called
                          the "Caribbean Netherlands". That's curious in itself - indicating a
                          detached portion of the motherland in the tropics = less autonomy from
                          NL than the St Maarten "collective" or whatever it became.

                          Len

                          Kevin Meynell wrote:
                          > Len,
                          >
                          >
                          >> The relationship of the UK to GB and GB to the "peculiarities of the
                          >> Crown" called Jersey and Guernsey are similar.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          > The British situation is actually a bit different to that of the
                          > Netherlands and Denmark. Those countries have a statutory constitutional
                          > definition of the Kingdom which encompasses their overseas territories,
                          > even if those territories are considered autonomous or even countries.
                          > Those Kingdoms also have the concept of a common citizenship, and have
                          > constitutionally defined relations with the parent state.
                          >
                          > By contrast, the UK has no formal concept of a realm encompassing its
                          > external territories. The territories are not constitutionally part of
                          > the UK and their relationship with the UK is largely by unwritten
                          > convention - the level of autonomy differing from territory-to-territory
                          > in accordance with various agreements made over time. The important
                          > point though, is that legislative authority over the territories lies
                          > with the Crown and the Privy Council and not the Westminster Parliament.
                          > Of course, the UK, the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories do
                          > constitute a British Realm in practice, but this is an informal and even
                          > unknown concept amongst the population.
                          >
                          > France to me is more simple - there's metropolitan France which
                          > incorporates some overseas territories, and non-metropolitan France.
                          > They collectively constitute the French Republic which clearly defines
                          > the status and arrangements for each constituent part.
                          >
                          >
                          >> If the BES islands are part and parcel of the Netherlands (meaning the
                          >> part inside the borders in Europe), then the Netherlands is a country
                          >> with multiple currencies and a country that officially uses another
                          >> country's money in parts of it (the US$).
                          >>
                          >
                          > It's not an arrangement without precedent. Don't the exclaves of
                          > Campione d'Italia and Buesingen use the Swiss Franc, and the US dollar
                          > is the de-facto currency of French St. Martin if not St. Barts as well?
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Kevin Meynell
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________________
                          > Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
                          > http://www.doteasy.com
                          >
                          >



                          _______________________________________________________
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                          http://www.doteasy.com
                        • Diego González
                          John, Hawaii is a State of the US, but Puerto Rico, Guam or the Mariana Islands not, because they are unincorporated US territory. It s the same with the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 7, 2011
                            John, Hawaii is a State of the US, but Puerto Rico, Guam or the Mariana Islands not, because they are unincorporated US territory. It's the same with the overseas territories of some EU countries.

                            Spain doesn't have territories outside the EU, the Canary Islands and the north-african cities of Ceuta and Melilla are integral part of the country and also of the EU, although they have special tax regulation (in Canary Islands the people and the companies don't pay the VAT, in Ceuta and Melilla they pay a 4% instead of 18% in the rest of Spain).

                            2011/4/2 John Mayson <john@...>
                             

                            I guess it's one of those things.  :-)


                            To me it'd be like saying Hawaii isn't part of NATO or something like that.


                            On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@...> wrote:


                            John, there is quite a list of British, French, Dutch and Danish overseas territories that are not part of the EU, even though their mother states are. See http://eeas.europa.eu/oct/index_en.htm

                            for examples. Most of the British, French and Dutch Caribbean territories are not part of the EU. Martinique and Guadalupe are, because they are an integral part of the French state and department.

                            Dallen

                             

                             


                            From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mayson
                            Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:17 PM
                            To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                             

                             

                            Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

                            On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
                            > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
                            >
                            > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
                            >
                            > Lowell G. McManus
                            > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA






                            --
                            John Mayson <john@...>
                            Austin, Texas, USA



                            --
                            http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
                          • R Novacovschi
                            I think it is not just the VAT, the Canary Islands are treated as being outside the EU for customs purposes. When you travel to and from there you are treated
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 7, 2011

                              I think it is not just the VAT, the Canary Islands are treated as being outside the EU for customs purposes. When you travel to and from there you are treated (at least in the UK) as travelling outside the EU, with all the rights and restrictions associated. Happy to read more clarifications on this.

                               

                              Razvan

                               

                              From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diego González
                              Sent: 07 April 2011 08-27
                              To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                               

                               

                              John, Hawaii is a State of the US, but Puerto Rico, Guam or the Mariana Islands not, because they are unincorporated US territory. It's the same with the overseas territories of some EU countries.

                              Spain doesn't have territories outside the EU, the Canary Islands and the north-african cities of Ceuta and Melilla are integral part of the country and also of the EU, although they have special tax regulation (in Canary Islands the people and the companies don't pay the VAT, in Ceuta and Melilla they pay a 4% instead of 18% in the rest of Spain).

                              2011/4/2 John Mayson <john@...>

                               

                              I guess it's one of those things.  :-)

                               

                              To me it'd be like saying Hawaii isn't part of NATO or something like that.

                               

                              On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@...> wrote:

                               

                              John, there is quite a list of British, French, Dutch and Danish overseas territories that are not part of the EU, even though their mother states are. See http://eeas.europa.eu/oct/index_en.htm

                              for examples. Most of the British, French and Dutch Caribbean territories are not part of the EU. Martinique and Guadalupe are, because they are an integral part of the French state and department.

                              Dallen

                               

                               


                              From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mayson
                              Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:17 PM
                              To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                               

                               

                              Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

                              On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:

                              > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
                              >
                              > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
                              >
                              > Lowell G. McManus
                              > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA

                               



                              --
                              John Mayson <john@...>
                              Austin, Texas, USA




                              --
                              http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com

                            • Kevin Meynell
                              ... I could be wrong, but I think the Canary Islands are part of the EU Customs Union but not the VAT area. Goods and services can be freely moved in the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 7, 2011
                                > I think it is not just the VAT, the Canary Islands are treated as
                                > being outside the EU for customs purposes. When you travel to and from
                                > there you are treated (at least in the UK) as travelling outside the
                                > EU, with all the rights and restrictions associated. Happy to read
                                > more clarifications on this.

                                I could be wrong, but I think the Canary Islands are part of the EU
                                Customs Union but not the VAT area. Goods and services can be freely
                                moved in the Customs Union without tariffs, and standard tariffs are
                                applied to goods from outside. VAT is just a sales tax at a fixed
                                percentage (albeit varying from country-to-country) .

                                By contrast Jersey and Guernsey are not in the EU but are in the customs
                                union. That's why there's currently a furore about mail order companies
                                (like Amazon) basing themselves there to avoid paying VAT (thanks to Low
                                Value Consignment Relief).

                                I therefore think that if you brought back goods from the Canary Islands
                                to the UK over the tax-free allowance, only VAT should be payable.
                                However, HRMC have been known to interpret the law incorrectly before,
                                so who knows...?

                                Regards,

                                Kevin Meynell
                              • Diego González
                                You re right. All passengers travelling from Canary Islands to mainland Spain have to go trough the customs area, as in an international flight outside
                                Message 15 of 15 , Apr 7, 2011
                                  You're right. All passengers travelling from Canary Islands to mainland Spain have to go trough the customs area, as in an international flight outside Schengen Area. This is because tobacco and alcohol (and other goods) doesn't have the same taxes than in the rest of Spain. You receive the same treatment than if you were entering Spain from Gibraltar or Andorra. Tobacco in the Islands cost a half or less than in Mainland Spain.

                                  Diego.

                                  2011/4/7 R Novacovschi <novacovschi@...>
                                   

                                  I think it is not just the VAT, the Canary Islands are treated as being outside the EU for customs purposes. When you travel to and from there you are treated (at least in the UK) as travelling outside the EU, with all the rights and restrictions associated. Happy to read more clarifications on this.

                                   

                                  Razvan

                                   

                                  From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diego González
                                  Sent: 07 April 2011 08-27


                                  To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                                   

                                   

                                  John, Hawaii is a State of the US, but Puerto Rico, Guam or the Mariana Islands not, because they are unincorporated US territory. It's the same with the overseas territories of some EU countries.

                                  Spain doesn't have territories outside the EU, the Canary Islands and the north-african cities of Ceuta and Melilla are integral part of the country and also of the EU, although they have special tax regulation (in Canary Islands the people and the companies don't pay the VAT, in Ceuta and Melilla they pay a 4% instead of 18% in the rest of Spain).

                                  2011/4/2 John Mayson <john@...>

                                   

                                  I guess it's one of those things.  :-)

                                   

                                  To me it'd be like saying Hawaii isn't part of NATO or something like that.

                                   

                                  On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  John, there is quite a list of British, French, Dutch and Danish overseas territories that are not part of the EU, even though their mother states are. See http://eeas.europa.eu/oct/index_en.htm

                                  for examples. Most of the British, French and Dutch Caribbean territories are not part of the EU. Martinique and Guadalupe are, because they are an integral part of the French state and department.

                                  Dallen

                                   

                                   


                                  From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mayson
                                  Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 4:17 PM
                                  To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Mayotte

                                   

                                   

                                  Why wouldn't it become part on the EU immediately if it's part of a member country?

                                  On Apr 1, 2011 5:45 PM, "Lowell G. McManus" <lgm@...> wrote:
                                  > Yesterday (March 31), the French islands of Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (between the northern end of Madagascar and Africa) were elevated to a full-fledged département d'outre-mer of the French Republic. Mayotte becomes the 101st French département. It is to become part of the European Union on January 1, 2014.
                                  >
                                  > Read more at http://goo.gl/zvTyj .
                                  >
                                  > Lowell G. McManus
                                  > Eagle Pass, Texas, USA

                                   



                                  --
                                  John Mayson <john@...>
                                  Austin, Texas, USA




                                  --
                                  http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com




                                  --
                                  http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com
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