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RE: [borderpoint] Re: DC-Maryland border

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  • Dallen Timothy
    Yesterday I composed a long response and sent it, but the Internet timed out, and the message was lost, so I ll try again from a different corner of my hotel
    Message 1 of 6 , May 13, 2010
      Yesterday I composed a long response and sent it, but the Internet timed out, and the message was lost, so I'll try again from a different corner of my hotel room.

      Yes, one could look at tax records (as Len noted this morning) and also cadastral maps would show the boundary. However, I have a couple of comments related to DC-MD situation. First, in Baarle the houses/properties that lie astride the international boundary do not pay taxes to both the Netherlands and Belgium--only to the country where the front door is located. The same is true about a few places along the US-Canada border. For instance, five feet of the back yard of Smugglers' Inn, in Blaine, Washington, lies in Canada, but the owner is not tax assessed by British Columbia for that portion of his land. While these are international examples, there might be some parallels to the DC-MD border situation, so some tax records could be irrelevant in finding out whether the yards are cut by the boundary, although cadastral maps would surely show the border. Second, according to sources, the border stones are still on their original locations. I don't believe easements or right of ways have anything to do with the placement of the border stones, but I could be wrong. It is doubtful that the current border avenues existed in their present form in 1792 (most historic maps show this to be true) when the boundary was demarcated, and I don't even know if the concept of right of way or easement existed then, but I'm not a roads historian. In any case, even if they did mark an easement of some source, the boundary is clearly on the Maryland side of the roads by at least 20 feet in most cases.

      It is an interesting case. I just don't have time to search for cadastral maps.
      Dallen

      -----Original Message-----
      From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com on behalf of geoh88
      Sent: Wed 5/12/2010 10:40 AM
      To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [borderpoint] Re: DC-Maryland border


      --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > .... The four newer stones (late 1800s or early 1900s) demarcate the
      border, all of which connect the line away from the roadways, through
      people's yards and public spaces.....

      Dallen, if true that the actual DC-MD border runs through "people's
      yards", then would it be relatively straightforward to check property
      (real estate) assessment tax parcels to ascertain whether or not these
      properties are in fact two separate parcels: the house and most of the
      land in Maryland, and a small piece of land in Washington, DC ?

      Or is it possible that what appears to be "people's yards" is in fact
      part of the right-of-way of the public street, which over the years has
      not been maintained as part of the public street right-of-way, and thus
      appears to be private property?

      Just wondering, because I have seen this in other cities.
    • Leonard
      RE: the 20 feet - it s true - especially on Eastern Avenue which is not a straight, uninterrupted street. Many buildings sitting on the north side of Eastern
      Message 2 of 6 , May 13, 2010
        RE: the 20 feet - it's true - especially on Eastern Avenue which is not a straight, uninterrupted street. Many buildings sitting on the north side of Eastern that borders with Marlyand (those houses generally on the north end, in the NW quadrant) have their fronts (the first three feet, perhaps, in DC and they face DC). 95% of or more of each of many buildings are in Maryland. I can hardly believe MD would abrogate its tax income to DC. Tomorrow, I'll place a couple of calls to city halls of the border towns on the MD side, and see what they can tell me about taxation of the building mostly in their towns.

        The last link I gave to the DC maps, maps come right up and it's not hard to see precisely where the boundaries lie. The variance between Google maps and the official DC map borders are striking! (Especially at the northernmost tip of DC).

        Len


        --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Yesterday I composed a long response and sent it, but the Internet timed out, and the message was lost, so I'll try again from a different corner of my hotel room.
        >
        > Yes, one could look at tax records (as Len noted this morning) and also cadastral maps would show the boundary. However, I have a couple of comments related to DC-MD situation. First, in Baarle the houses/properties that lie astride the international boundary do not pay taxes to both the Netherlands and Belgium--only to the country where the front door is located. The same is true about a few places along the US-Canada border. For instance, five feet of the back yard of Smugglers' Inn, in Blaine, Washington, lies in Canada, but the owner is not tax assessed by British Columbia for that portion of his land. While these are international examples, there might be some parallels to the DC-MD border situation, so some tax records could be irrelevant in finding out whether the yards are cut by the boundary, although cadastral maps would surely show the border. Second, according to sources, the border stones are still on their original locations. I don't believe easements or right of ways have anything to do with the placement of the border stones, but I could be wrong. It is doubtful that the current border avenues existed in their present form in 1792 (most historic maps show this to be true) when the boundary was demarcated, and I don't even know if the concept of right of way or easement existed then, but I'm not a roads historian. In any case, even if they did mark an easement of some source, the boundary is clearly on the Maryland side of the roads by at least 20 feet in most cases.
        >
        > It is an interesting case. I just don't have time to search for cadastral maps.
        > Dallen
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com on behalf of geoh88
        > Sent: Wed 5/12/2010 10:40 AM
        > To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [borderpoint] Re: DC-Maryland border
        >
        >
        > --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, Dallen Timothy <Dallen.Timothy@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > .... The four newer stones (late 1800s or early 1900s) demarcate the
        > border, all of which connect the line away from the roadways, through
        > people's yards and public spaces.....
        >
        > Dallen, if true that the actual DC-MD border runs through "people's
        > yards", then would it be relatively straightforward to check property
        > (real estate) assessment tax parcels to ascertain whether or not these
        > properties are in fact two separate parcels: the house and most of the
        > land in Maryland, and a small piece of land in Washington, DC ?
        >
        > Or is it possible that what appears to be "people's yards" is in fact
        > part of the right-of-way of the public street, which over the years has
        > not been maintained as part of the public street right-of-way, and thus
        > appears to be private property?
        >
        > Just wondering, because I have seen this in other cities.
        >
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