Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Ellis Island on Google Maps

Expand Messages
  • AsherNull
    http://tinyurl.com/elnynj Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate? Asher Samuels
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
      http://tinyurl.com/elnynj

      Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

      Asher Samuels
    • David Kendall
      ... According to the article here: http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc99/proceed/papers/pap138/p138.htm it looks pretty close - which I m
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
        > Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

        According to the article here: http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc99/proceed/papers/pap138/p138.htm it looks pretty close - which I'm impressed for a Google map!
      • Magnus Lundin
        This site has a similiar map: http://blog.proud-geek.com/2007/08/09/strange-maps-ellis-island-is-not-quite-in-new-york/ -Magnus
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
        • Dallen Timothy
          I was going to say, it looks pretty accurate, so good on Google Maps for being fairly accurate!! I was on Ellis Island in 2001 and searched for any sign of the
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009

            I was going to say, it looks pretty accurate, so good on Google Maps for being fairly accurate!!

            I was on Ellis Island in 2001 and searched for any sign of the boundary. There wasn’t any indication anywhere. The entire island is managed by the US National Park Service. I asked a couple rangers about the boundary, and they said there weren’t any indications of it, and it is essentially irrelevant since the whole island is under the ownership/management of the USNPS. I doubt they’d be saying it’s irrelevant if a major crime were to happen on the island…unless…would that fall under FBI since it’s federal land?

            It’s similar to Yellowstone National Park —from an administrative perspective things are irrelevant if you are in the Montana or Wyoming portions of the park. The road pavement doesn’t change at the state line inside the park, because the road is maintained by the USNPS, not Montana and Wyoming .

             

            I asked a couple of cashiers at the café and souvenir shop on Ellis Island about sales tax. They said it is all New York tax. If I remember correctly, it seems like all the vendors/shops were inside the NY state boundary area in the extant buildings.

             

            Dallen

             

             


            From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kendall
            Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:08 AM
            To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

             

             

            > Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

            According to the article here: http://proceedings. esri.com/ library/userconf /proc99/proceed/ papers/pap138/ p138.htm it looks pretty close - which I'm impressed for a Google map!

          • Jesper Nielsen
            Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk? Jesper _____ Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009

              Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk?

               

              Jesper

               


              Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af AsherNull
              Sendt: 2. december 2009 15:29
              Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
              Emne: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

               

               

              http://tinyurl. com/elnynj

              Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

              Asher Samuels

            • Magnus Lundin
              Arrested by whom? ;-) -Magnus ... Arrested by whom? ;-) -Magnus On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jesper Nielsen wrote:   Didn’t you
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
                Arrested by whom? ;-)

                -Magnus

                On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...> wrote:
                 

                Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk?

                 

                Jesper

                 


                Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af AsherNull
                Sendt: 2. december 2009 15:29
                Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                Emne: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                 

                 

                http://tinyurl.com/elnynj

                Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

                Asher Samuels


              • Jesper Nielsen
                Police probably. Jesper _____ Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Magnus Lundin Sendt: 2. december 2009 22:00
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009

                  Police probably.

                   

                  Jesper

                   


                  Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af Magnus Lundin
                  Sendt: 2. december 2009 22:00
                  Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                  Emne: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                   

                   

                  Arrested by whom? ;-)

                  -Magnus

                  On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk> wrote:

                   

                  Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk?

                   

                  Jesper

                   


                  Fra: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com] På vegne af AsherNull
                  Sendt: 2. december 2009 15:29
                  Til: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
                  Emne: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                   

                   

                  http://tinyurl. com/elnynj

                  Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

                  Asher Samuels

                   

                • Jesper Nielsen
                  Full story: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/10774 _____ Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009

                    Full story:

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/message/10774

                     


                    Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af Magnus Lundin
                    Sendt: 2. december 2009 22:00
                    Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                    Emne: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                     

                     

                    Arrested by whom? ;-)

                    -Magnus

                    On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk> wrote:

                     

                    Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk?

                     

                    Jesper

                     


                    Fra: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com] På vegne af AsherNull
                    Sendt: 2. december 2009 15:29
                    Til: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
                    Emne: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                     

                     

                    http://tinyurl. com/elnynj

                    Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

                    Asher Samuels

                     

                  • Lowell G. McManus
                    Park Rangers, as I recall. Lowell G. McManus Eagle Pass, Texas, USA ... From: Jesper Nielsen To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
                      Park Rangers, as I recall.
                       
                      Lowell G. McManus
                      Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:05 PM
                      Subject: SV: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                      Police probably.

                       

                      Jesper

                       


                      Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af Magnus Lundin
                      Sendt: 2. december 2009 22:00
                      Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                      Emne: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                       

                       

                      Arrested by whom? ;-)

                      -Magnus

                      On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@nicolette. dk> wrote:

                       

                      Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk?

                       

                      Jesper

                       


                      Fra: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com] På vegne af AsherNull
                      Sendt: 2. december 2009 15:29
                      Til: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
                      Emne: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                       

                       

                      http://tinyurl. com/elnynj

                      Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

                      Asher Samuels

                       

                    • Magnus Lundin
                      From which jurisdiction? ;-) -Magnus ... From which jurisdiction? ;-) -Magnus On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Jesper Nielsen wrote:  
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
                        From which jurisdiction? ;-)

                        -Magnus


                        On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...> wrote:
                         

                        Police probably.

                         

                        Jesper

                         


                        Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Magnus Lundin
                        Sendt: 2. december 2009 22:00
                        Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                        Emne: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                         

                         

                        Arrested by whom? ;-)

                        -Magnus

                        On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...> wrote:

                         

                        Didn’t you go there yourself with Michael Donner getting arrested for drawing the boundary line with chalk?

                         

                        Jesper

                         


                        Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af AsherNull
                        Sendt: 2. december 2009 15:29
                        Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                        Emne: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                         

                         

                        http://tinyurl.com/elnynj

                        Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

                        Asher Samuels

                         


                      • Chris Merlo
                        On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Jesper Nielsen wrote: ... Seems like you were detained, not arrested. Cool story, though! When was
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
                          On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Jesper Nielsen <jesper@...> wrote:

                          Seems like you were detained, not arrested.  Cool story, though!  When was this?  I'm guessing post 9/11; otherwise, the Ranger would probably have either just asked you to move along, or maybe even engage in conversation.
                          -c
                        • David L. Langenberg
                          Yes, more or less. A recent court decision awarded New York the original area of Ellis Island and New Jersey all those later enlargements due to landfill,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
                            Yes, more or less.  A recent court decision awarded New York the original area of Ellis Island and New Jersey all those later enlargements due to landfill, etc.  A small area of New York is thus an exclave and totally surrounded by New Jersey.

                            David Langenberg

                            On Dec 2, 2009, at 9:29 AM, AsherNull wrote:

                             

                            http://tinyurl. com/elnynj

                            Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?

                            Asher Samuels


                          • Lowell G. McManus
                            It wasn t really all that recent. The date of the U. S. Supreme Court decision was May 26, 1998. Even before that, all acknowledged that both Ellis and
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 2, 2009
                              It wasn't really all that recent.  The date of the U. S. Supreme Court decision was May 26, 1998.
                               
                              Even before that, all acknowledged that both Ellis and Liberty Islands were New York exclaves totally enclaved within New Jersey waters.  That's been the case since an 1834 boundary compact between the two states.  As you said, the issue was the sovereignty over enlargements made to Ellis Island with soil removed during construction of the New York subways.  The Supremes decided that the boundary had stayed put at the original island's low-water mark as depicted on an 1857 map.
                               
                              Lowell G. McManus
                              Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:25 PM
                              Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                              Yes, more or less.  A recent court decision awarded New York the original area of Ellis Island and New Jersey all those later enlargements due to landfill, etc.  A small area of New York is thus an exclave and totally surrounded by New Jersey.

                              David Langenberg
                            • Diego González
                              WOW. I didn t know anything about this, what a great story. With your permission, i m going to make a post for my blog. I was in New York last year in my honey
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 3, 2009
                                WOW.

                                I didn't know anything about this, what a great story.

                                With your permission, i'm going to make a post for my blog.

                                I was in New York last year in my honey moon (what a GREAT city, man) but we couldn't get a ticket for Ellis and Liberty islands... all the boats were full and we left the city next day.

                                Regards.

                                Diego.

                                2009/12/3 Lowell G. McManus <lgm@...>
                                 

                                It wasn't really all that recent.  The date of the U. S. Supreme Court decision was May 26, 1998.
                                 
                                Even before that, all acknowledged that both Ellis and Liberty Islands were New York exclaves totally enclaved within New Jersey waters.  That's been the case since an 1834 boundary compact between the two states.  As you said, the issue was the sovereignty over enlargements made to Ellis Island with soil removed during construction of the New York subways.  The Supremes decided that the boundary had stayed put at the original island's low-water mark as depicted on an 1857 map.
                                 
                                Lowell G. McManus
                                Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:25 PM
                                Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Ellis Island on Google Maps

                                Yes, more or less.  A recent court decision awarded New York the original area of Ellis Island and New Jersey all those later enlargements due to landfill, etc.  A small area of New York is thus an exclave and totally surrounded by New Jersey.

                                David Langenberg



                                --
                                http://fronterasblog.wordpress.com/
                              • Kevin Flynn
                                Actually, I see many areas where the Google Maps line does not match the lines shown in the several articles that several other members have posted... check
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 3, 2009
                                  Actually, I see many areas where the Google Maps line does not match the lines shown in the several articles that several other members have posted... check the little cove-like indentation on the lower southwest portion of the line; this isn't on the maps as shown in the posts on the SCOTUS proceedings. Also, the outline for the original dock area in front of the main building is completely different.

                                  Lowell or somebody mentioned that this has long been recognized as a NY exclave surrounded by NJ waters. I don't think that's true. Remember that NY has complete jurisdiction over all the surface of the Upper Bay of the Hudson clear to the NY high water line along the Hudson County docks. NJ only "controls" the muck on the bottom -- which was the reason the filling of the areas around Ellis Island became NJ's jurisdiction when it rose above water line. The state line down the middle of the river and bay only applies to the bottom of the river and bay while NY controls the entire surface all the way to the Palisades.

                                  I think what we have here on Ellis is, at least above sea level, an exclave of NY within a doughnut-shaped exclave of NJ, while along the waters we have a horizontal boundary -- NY on top, NJ on bottom.

                                  --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "AsherNull" <asher972@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > http://tinyurl.com/elnynj
                                  >
                                  > Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?
                                  >
                                  > Asher Samuels
                                  >
                                • Leonard
                                  Anyplace else on Earth at the moment with a horizontal (or other than perpendicular, riverain or litoral) boundary? We know about TexMex bridges - any others
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 3, 2009
                                    Anyplace else on Earth at the moment with a horizontal (or other than perpendicular, riverain or litoral) boundary? We know about TexMex bridges - any others anyone can think of?

                                    Len

                                    --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Flynn" <kevin.j.flynn@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Actually, I see many areas where the Google Maps line does not match the lines shown in the several articles that several other members have posted... check the little cove-like indentation on the lower southwest portion of the line; this isn't on the maps as shown in the posts on the SCOTUS proceedings. Also, the outline for the original dock area in front of the main building is completely different.
                                    >
                                    > Lowell or somebody mentioned that this has long been recognized as a NY exclave surrounded by NJ waters. I don't think that's true. Remember that NY has complete jurisdiction over all the surface of the Upper Bay of the Hudson clear to the NY high water line along the Hudson County docks. NJ only "controls" the muck on the bottom -- which was the reason the filling of the areas around Ellis Island became NJ's jurisdiction when it rose above water line. The state line down the middle of the river and bay only applies to the bottom of the river and bay while NY controls the entire surface all the way to the Palisades.
                                    >
                                    > I think what we have here on Ellis is, at least above sea level, an exclave of NY within a doughnut-shaped exclave of NJ, while along the waters we have a horizontal boundary -- NY on top, NJ on bottom.
                                    >
                                    > --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "AsherNull" <asher972@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > http://tinyurl.com/elnynj
                                    > >
                                    > > Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?
                                    > >
                                    > > Asher Samuels
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Goyta' F. Villela Jr.
                                    ... If I understood it well, you are asking about 3D borders, in which the vertical position matters - they don t go from the centre of the earth to outer
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Dec 5, 2009
                                      > Anyplace else on Earth at the moment with a horizontal (or other
                                      > than perpendicular, riverain or litoral) boundary? We know about
                                      > TexMex bridges - any others anyone can think of?

                                      If I understood it well, you are asking about "3D" borders, in which the vertical position matters - they don't go from the centre of the earth to outer space, as most borders are supposed to do. One I can remember was on the road from mainland West Berlin to Steinstücken. The narrow access corridor and road included a viaduct that was West Berlin territory, but the road under the viaduct and the land beneath it belonged to the GDR. I don't know if this still applies to the successor "Bundesländer" of Berlin and Brandenburg in the reunited Germany.

                                      Regards,

                                      Goytá
                                    • Leonard
                                      Hi, Goyta, After the question about the Stahnsdorfer Bridge in Steinstuecken surfaced, I visited the city hall in the area of Berlin to ask about the ownership
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Dec 5, 2009
                                        Hi, Goyta,
                                        After the question about the Stahnsdorfer Bridge in Steinstuecken surfaced, I visited the city hall in the area of Berlin to ask about the ownership of the bridge, and learned that there never was a non-vertical boundary there. The W Germans built the bridge and paid for upkeep, but it was clear that E Germany had sovereignty over the center section of it. The city could have built the bridge 200 meters further south and not needed to cross E Germany, but the traffic would have had to go through the village center and a lot of private land left and right of the tracks would have had to be confiscated for the access. After unification, the situation stayed the same in a non-international environment - Berlin maintains the bridge, but Potsdam owns the center.

                                        The similar situation still appears, though, in the Vennbahn area - bridges of Belgium over the roads underneath that Germany takes care of, even though the road length under the bridge belongs to Belgium.

                                        Len

                                        --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Goyta' F. Villela Jr." <goytabr@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Anyplace else on Earth at the moment with a horizontal (or other
                                        > > than perpendicular, riverain or litoral) boundary? We know about
                                        > > TexMex bridges - any others anyone can think of?
                                        >
                                        > If I understood it well, you are asking about "3D" borders, in which the vertical position matters - they don't go from the centre of the earth to outer space, as most borders are supposed to do. One I can remember was on the road from mainland West Berlin to Steinstücken. The narrow access corridor and road included a viaduct that was West Berlin territory, but the road under the viaduct and the land beneath it belonged to the GDR. I don't know if this still applies to the successor "Bundesländer" of Berlin and Brandenburg in the reunited Germany.
                                        >
                                        > Regards,
                                        >
                                        > Goytá
                                        >
                                      • Leonard
                                        There s a detailed official German border map of the Stahnsdorfer bridge location in the Berlin folder in the Photos library. Len
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Dec 5, 2009
                                          There's a detailed official German border map of the Stahnsdorfer bridge location in the Berlin folder in the Photos library.
                                          Len

                                          --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Goyta' F. Villela Jr." <goytabr@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                        • Lowell G. McManus
                                          Well, the situation there in the harbor is very unusual, in that each of the two states do exercise jurisdiction (by congressionally ratified compact) over
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Dec 15, 2009
                                            Well, the situation there in the harbor is very unusual, in that each of the
                                            two states do exercise jurisdiction (by congressionally ratified compact)
                                            over portions of the other's sovereign waters. However, that does not alter
                                            the boundaries of sovereignty previously established. Jurisdiction and
                                            sovereignty are not always the same thing.

                                            Lowell G. McManus
                                            Eagle Pass, Texas, USA



                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Kevin Flynn" <kevin.j.flynn@...>
                                            To: <borderpoint@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:53 AM
                                            Subject: [borderpoint] Re: Ellis Island on Google Maps


                                            > Actually, I see many areas where the Google Maps line does not match the
                                            > lines shown in the several articles that several other members have
                                            > posted... check the little cove-like indentation on the lower southwest
                                            > portion of the line; this isn't on the maps as shown in the posts on the
                                            > SCOTUS proceedings. Also, the outline for the original dock area in front
                                            > of the main building is completely different.
                                            >
                                            > Lowell or somebody mentioned that this has long been recognized as a NY
                                            > exclave surrounded by NJ waters. I don't think that's true. Remember that
                                            > NY has complete jurisdiction over all the surface of the Upper Bay of the
                                            > Hudson clear to the NY high water line along the Hudson County docks. NJ
                                            > only "controls" the muck on the bottom -- which was the reason the filling
                                            > of the areas around Ellis Island became NJ's jurisdiction when it rose
                                            > above water line. The state line down the middle of the river and bay only
                                            > applies to the bottom of the river and bay while NY controls the entire
                                            > surface all the way to the Palisades.
                                            >
                                            > I think what we have here on Ellis is, at least above sea level, an
                                            > exclave of NY within a doughnut-shaped exclave of NJ, while along the
                                            > waters we have a horizontal boundary -- NY on top, NJ on bottom.
                                            >
                                            > --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "AsherNull" <asher972@...> wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >> http://tinyurl.com/elnynj
                                            >>
                                            >> Zoom in on Ellis Island - any guesses if the border is accurate?
                                            >>
                                            >> Asher Samuels
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.