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Re: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc

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  • Marian Houk
    I moved to Jerusalem a year ago, after many working and personal visits, and I would like to see more open discussion about what is going on here, which is not
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 30, 2008
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      I moved to Jerusalem a year ago, after many working
      and personal visits, and I would like to see more open
      discussion about what is going on here, which is not
      reported enough at all. 
      My own work here is to try to report on the situation as
      it actually is, and I can assure everyone that it is extremely,
      extremely difficult, and on top of that the editorial interest is
      equally extremely limited. 
      It has been discouraging to see the accusations of
      anti-semitism on this discussion site.


      --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Brendan Whyte <obiwonfive@...> wrote:
      From: Brendan Whyte <obiwonfive@...>
      Subject: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc
      To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 4:19 AM

      Jan has lived and worked in the area, as have I. The course of the border wall always seems to infringe on Palestinian villages and properties, no matter how old, and never on Jewish/Israeli ones, no matter how recent, or how officially sanctioned (or not). While the Israeli courts have deflected the government's proposed course of the wall in many places, the wall is a terrifying reminder of inhumanity on both sides.
      For anyone visiting Israel, the NGO "Breaking the Silence" offers tours to Hebron, showing how the two sides live in a divided city. Few regular Israelis go to Hebron, as it is in the West Bank, and even the road to it is considered dangerous. The main visitors are orthodox Jews who visit the settlers there, or who simply go to visit the Tomb of the Patriarchs.
      http://www.breaking thesilence. org.il/index_ e.asp
      The NGO is made up of Israeli soldiers who are concerned about the way the state organs (military, police, courts) seem to side with the settlers, no matter what the issue. The NGO offer tours to the city, the Israeli side only, but they visit Palestinian families there, who are resisting the violence of the settlers who are slowly forcing them out of Israeli-governed sections and into the walled off Palestinian section. They visit the central part of the old city, where Palstinians have been forced out to provide a "buffer zone" around the settlers, who are slowly taking over the "abandoned" buildings, forcing the army to create new buffer zones in a relentless process.
      The city has witnessed massacres by both sides. Make up you own mind on the issue, but do so on the basis of information from both sides. It's a complex issue, and will not be solved easily, but too often this rhetoric of complexity, and taunts of anti-Jewish or anti-Arab bias, are used to cover up deliberate and obvious injustices.

      Brendan




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    • Lou
      Well put. Everybody talks about being in favor of critical thinking as long as you abide by that decider s rules and just repeat Amen.   Lou   ... From:
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 1, 2008
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        Well put. Everybody talks about being in favor of critical thinking as long as you abide by that decider's rules and just repeat Amen.

         

        Lou  

        --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Marian Houk <marianhouk@...> wrote:

        From: Marian Houk <marianhouk@...>
        Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc
        To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 2:46 AM


        I moved to Jerusalem a year ago, after many working
        and personal visits, and I would like to see more open
        discussion about what is going on here, which is not
        reported enough at all. 
        My own work here is to try to report on the situation as
        it actually is, and I can assure everyone that it is extremely,
        extremely difficult, and on top of that the editorial interest is
        equally extremely limited. 
        It has been discouraging to see the accusations of
        anti-semitism on this discussion site.


        --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Brendan Whyte <obiwonfive@hotmail. com> wrote:
        From: Brendan Whyte <obiwonfive@hotmail. com>
        Subject: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc
        To: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 4:19 AM

        Jan has lived and worked in the area, as have I. The course of the border wall always seems to infringe on Palestinian villages and properties, no matter how old, and never on Jewish/Israeli ones, no matter how recent, or how officially sanctioned (or not). While the Israeli courts have deflected the government's proposed course of the wall in many places, the wall is a terrifying reminder of inhumanity on both sides.
        For anyone visiting Israel, the NGO "Breaking the Silence" offers tours to Hebron, showing how the two sides live in a divided city. Few regular Israelis go to Hebron, as it is in the West Bank, and even the road to it is considered dangerous. The main visitors are orthodox Jews who visit the settlers there, or who simply go to visit the Tomb of the Patriarchs.
        http://www.breaking thesilence. org.il/index_ e.asp
        The NGO is made up of Israeli soldiers who are concerned about the way the state organs (military, police, courts) seem to side with the settlers, no matter what the issue. The NGO offer tours to the city, the Israeli side only, but they visit Palestinian families there, who are resisting the violence of the settlers who are slowly forcing them out of Israeli-governed sections and into the walled off Palestinian section. They visit the central part of the old city, where Palstinians have been forced out to provide a "buffer zone" around the settlers, who are slowly taking over the "abandoned" buildings, forcing the army to create new buffer zones in a relentless process.
        The city has witnessed massacres by both sides. Make up you own mind on the issue, but do so on the basis of information from both sides. It's a complex issue, and will not be solved easily, but too often this rhetoric of complexity, and taunts of anti-Jewish or anti-Arab bias, are used to cover up deliberate and obvious injustices.

        Brendan




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      • = Girbig Consulting =
        Where is the moderator? All this stuff is out of subject. Let s come back to our initial border point group targets. JP ... De : Lou À :
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
           
          Where is the moderator?
           
          All this stuff is out of subject. Let's come back to our initial border point group targets.
           
          JP
           
           
          ----- Message d'origine -----
          De : Lou
          Envoyé : mardi 1 juillet 2008 14:16
          Objet : Re: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc

          Well put. Everybody talks about being in favor of critical thinking as long as you abide by that decider's rules and just repeat Amen.

           

          Lou  

          --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Marian Houk <marianhouk@yahoo. com> wrote:

          From: Marian Houk <marianhouk@yahoo. com>
          Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc
          To: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 2:46 AM


          I moved to Jerusalem a year ago, after many working
          and personal visits, and I would like to see more open
          discussion about what is going on here, which is not
          reported enough at all. 
          My own work here is to try to report on the situation as
          it actually is, and I can assure everyone that it is extremely,
          extremely difficult, and on top of that the editorial interest is
          equally extremely limited. 
          It has been discouraging to see the accusations of
          anti-semitism on this discussion site.


          --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Brendan Whyte <obiwonfive@hotmail. com> wrote:
          From: Brendan Whyte <obiwonfive@hotmail. com>
          Subject: [borderpoint] Norway-Israel etc
          To: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 4:19 AM

          Jan has lived and worked in the area, as have I. The course of the border wall always seems to infringe on Palestinian villages and properties, no matter how old, and never on Jewish/Israeli ones, no matter how recent, or how officially sanctioned (or not). While the Israeli courts have deflected the government's proposed course of the wall in many places, the wall is a terrifying reminder of inhumanity on both sides.
          For anyone visiting Israel, the NGO "Breaking the Silence" offers tours to Hebron, showing how the two sides live in a divided city. Few regular Israelis go to Hebron, as it is in the West Bank, and even the road to it is considered dangerous. The main visitors are orthodox Jews who visit the settlers there, or who simply go to visit the Tomb of the Patriarchs.
          http://www.breaking thesilence. org.il/index_ e.asp
          The NGO is made up of Israeli soldiers who are concerned about the way the state organs (military, police, courts) seem to side with the settlers, no matter what the issue. The NGO offer tours to the city, the Israeli side only, but they visit Palestinian families there, who are resisting the violence of the settlers who are slowly forcing them out of Israeli-governed sections and into the walled off Palestinian section. They visit the central part of the old city, where Palstinians have been forced out to provide a "buffer zone" around the settlers, who are slowly taking over the "abandoned" buildings, forcing the army to create new buffer zones in a relentless process.
          The city has witnessed massacres by both sides. Make up you own mind on the issue, but do so on the basis of information from both sides. It's a complex issue, and will not be solved easily, but too often this rhetoric of complexity, and taunts of anti-Jewish or anti-Arab bias, are used to cover up deliberate and obvious injustices.

          Brendan




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