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GBSBE2008

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  • Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
    The Great Black Sea Border Expedition 2008 was completed earlier this month, which included visits to BYRUUA MDROUAN MDROUAS plus visits to various borders in
    Message 1 of 12 , May 27, 2008

      The Great Black Sea Border Expedition 2008 was completed earlier this month, which included visits to

       

      BYRUUA

      MDROUAN

      MDROUAS

       

      plus visits to various borders in the region

       

      Rolf Palmberg has updated his site

       

      http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersBRU. htm
      http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersMRUn. htm
      http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersMRUs. htm
      http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersukraine. htm

       

      and the rest of the team may add more later.

       

      BYRUUA was obviously a drive-in tripoint, even though attacked by foot from UA crossing

       

      And here are short summaries from the other tps:

       

      MDROUAN

      From marker 0001 down to the river is actually a far distance.

      There is no vista and the bushes are so overgrown which made it impossible to see the river from 0001 or 0001 from the river.

      The MD guard who took us was very unsure of the point himself, And where MDUA reaches the bank.

      Personally I found the tripoint itself quite uninteresting, while the walk there and back was filled with interesting

      ‘borderware’ like barbwire, signs, markers, guards, Soviet fences etc.

         

      MDROUAS

      We tried a route across the railway which I located on Google Earth, but the road was made undrivable by deep ditches and the railway was impassable with normal car, too. The marker you see is no 1387.

      Our rental car was to be returned to Odessa same evening and the group split as some flew back from Odessa while I, Peter Hering and Doug Murray was more adventurous and headed to Galati (RO) via UAMD and MDRU to catch train to Bucharest. Due to short time, and other challenges we agreed we saw the tp from a distance, but of course one day I would like to improve the visit. UAMD was very clearly a straight line heading towards the Danube , with barb fences on each side of the markers.

       

      Jesper

       

       

    • kubana2005
      Was the BYRUUA tripoint in no country customs union? How was the boundary with Pridnjestrovlje? Alex
      Message 2 of 12 , May 27, 2008
        Was the BYRUUA tripoint in no country customs union? How was the
        boundary with Pridnjestrovlje?

        Alex
      • Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
        BYRUUA is probably the only three way border crossing in the world. It works as a normal roundabout / traffic island and if someone eg goes from UA to BY he
        Message 3 of 12 , May 27, 2008

          BYRUUA is probably the only three way border crossing in the world.

          It works as a normal roundabout / traffic island and if someone eg goes from UA to BY he will cross through RU.

           

          To get there you need to check out of the country you come from, and make sure your documents are in order to proceed to one of the two other countries; however we made early arrangements with authorities and were able to leave UA and return to UA. The bureaucracy is still heavy even with special permission.

           

          MDUA proper was very relaxed, almost like a Western European border. Away from international crossings we never saw patrol or people in watch towers, and no fences. We jumped over a few times, while local farmers continued with their field work.

           

          The Pridnjestrovlje-UA border was different, as you can see from Rolf’s pictures; there were no demarcation, many warning signs and a ditch dug almost all the way. I am not completely sure, but I guess the ditch was on the UA side.

           

          We stopped at a few local Pridnjestrovlje-UA crossings from the UA side, and the UA guards were not very friendly.

           

          Crossing from Pridnjestrovlje into the UA on the main Tiraspol-Odessa road was very slow, while crossing from MD to Pridnjestrovlje is a painful long story, that I will tell another time.

           

          We also travelled on the MDUA transit road south of Odessa . You simply tell the guards you are in transit, they count number of people, note it on a paper, which you hand back to a UA guard as you leave MD again. MD only checks you if you leave the transit road to enter MD at Palanka.

           

          Jesper

           

           

           

           

           

          --

          Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and tripoints

          http://www.nicolette.dk/borderbase


          Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af kubana2005
          Sendt: 27. maj 2008 22:49
          Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
          Emne: [borderpoint] Re: GBSBE2008

           

          Was the BYRUUA tripoint in no country customs union? How was the
          boundary with Pridnjestrovlje?

          Alex

        • Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
          BYRUUA from the sky http://shop.kosmosnimki.ru/#x=31.781296&y=52.112052&z=14&fullscreen=false&mo de=image_,irs_ Jesper -- Borderbase - your online guide to
          Message 4 of 12 , May 31, 2008

            BYRUUA from the sky

             

            http://shop.kosmosnimki.ru/#x=31.781296&y=52.112052&z=14&fullscreen=false&mode=image_,irs_

             

            Jesper

            --

            Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and tripoints

            http://www.nicolette.dk/borderbase


            Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af Jesper Nielsen /Borderbase
            Sendt: 27. maj 2008 22:41
            Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
            Emne: [borderpoint] GBSBE2008

             

            The Great Black Sea Border Expedition 2008 was completed earlier this month, which included visits to

             

            BYRUUA

            MDROUAN

            MDROUAS

             

            plus visits to various borders in the region

             

            Rolf Palmberg has updated his site

             

            http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersBRU. htm
            http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersMRUn. htm
            http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersMRUs. htm
            http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersukraine. htm

             

            and the rest of the team may add more later.

             

            BYRUUA was obviously a drive-in tripoint, even though attacked by foot from UA crossing

             

            And here are short summaries from the other tps:

             

            MDROUAN

            From marker 0001 down to the river is actually a far distance.

            There is no vista and the bushes are so overgrown which made it impossible to see the river from 0001 or 0001 from the river.

            The MD guard who took us was very unsure of the point himself, And where MDUA reaches the bank.

            Personally I found the tripoint itself quite uninteresting, while the walk there and back was filled with interesting

            ‘borderware’ like barbwire, signs, markers, guards, Soviet fences etc.

               

            MDROUAS

            We tried a route across the railway which I located on Google Earth, but the road was made undrivable by deep ditches and the railway was impassable with normal car, too. The marker you see is no 1387.

            Our rental car was to be returned to Odessa same evening and the group split as some flew back from Odessa while I, Peter Hering and Doug Murray was more adventurous and headed to Galati (RO) via UAMD and MDRU to catch train to Bucharest. Due to short time, and other challenges we agreed we saw the tp from a distance, but of course one day I would like to improve the visit. UAMD was very clearly a straight line heading towards the Danube , with barb fences on each side of the markers.

             

            Jesper

             

             

          • Hugh Wallis
            I just get a black image from this URI :( _____ From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
            Message 5 of 12 , May 31, 2008
              I just get a black image from this URI :(


              From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
              Sent: May 31, 2008 4:43 PM
              To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: SV: [borderpoint] GBSBE2008

              BYRUUA from the sky

              http://shop. kosmosnimki. ru/#x=31.81296&y=52.112052&z=14&fullscreen=false&mode=image_, irs_

              Jesper

              --

              Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and tripoints

              http://www.nicolett e.dk/borderbase


              Fra: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com ] På vegne af Jesper Nielsen /Borderbase
              Sendt: 27. maj 2008 22:41
              Til: borderpoint@ yahoogroups. com
              Emne: [borderpoint] GBSBE2008

              The Great Black Sea Border Expedition 2008 was completed earlier this month, which included visits to

              BYRUUA

              MDROUAN

              MDROUAS

              plus visits to various borders in the region

              Rolf Palmberg has updated his site

              http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersBRU. htm
              http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersMRUn. htm
              http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersMRUs. htm
              http://www.vasa. abo.fi/users/ rpalmber/ bordersukraine. htm

              and the rest of the team may add more later.

              BYRUUA was obviously a drive-in tripoint, even though attacked by foot from UA crossing

              And here are short summaries from the other tps:

              MDROUAN

              From marker 0001 down to the river is actually a far distance.

              There is no vista and the bushes are so overgrown which made it impossible to see the river from 0001 or 0001 from the river.

              The MD guard who took us was very unsure of the point himself, And where MDUA reaches the bank.

              Personally I found the tripoint itself quite uninteresting, while the walk there and back was filled with interesting

              ‘borderware’ like barbwire, signs, markers, guards, Soviet fences etc.

                 

              MDROUAS

              We tried a route across the railway which I located on Google Earth, but the road was made undrivable by deep ditches and the railway was impassable with normal car, too. The marker you see is no 1387.

              Our rental car was to be returned to Odessa same evening and the group split as some flew back from Odessa while I, Peter Hering and Doug Murray was more adventurous and headed to Galati (RO) via UAMD and MDRU to catch train to Bucharest. Due to short time, and other challenges we agreed we saw the tp from a distance, but of course one day I would like to improve the visit. UAMD was very clearly a straight line heading towards the Danube , with barb fences on each side of the markers.

              Jesper

            • Lowell G. McManus
              It worked for me when it was posted, and it works for me now. Try it again. The satellite photo within the page can be slow to load. Also, the URL as
              Message 6 of 12 , May 31, 2008
                It worked for me when it was posted, and it works for me now.  Try it again.  The satellite photo within the page can be slow to load.
                 
                Also, the URL as reproduced below is missing one digit.  It should be:
                 
                Lowell G. McManus
                Eagle Pass, Texas, USA
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:55 PM
                Subject: RE: [borderpoint] GBSBE2008

                I just get a black image from this URI :(


                From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
                Sent: May 31, 2008 4:43 PM
                To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: SV: [borderpoint] GBSBE2008

                BYRUUA from the sky

                http://shop. kosmosnimki. ru/#x=31.81296&y=52.112052&z=14&fullscreen=false&mode=image_, irs_

                Jesper

                --

                Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and tripoints

                http://www.nicolett e.dk/borderbase

              • kubana2005
                How was the Moldova-Pridnjestrovlje border? Is the boundary marked?
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 2, 2008
                  How was the Moldova-Pridnjestrovlje border? Is the boundary marked?
                • Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
                  Please see me previous posted answer to your question and like to the posted pictures. Jesper -- Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 2, 2008

                    Please see me previous posted answer to your question and like to the posted pictures.

                     

                    Jesper

                     

                    --

                    Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and tripoints

                    http://www.nicolette.dk/borderbase


                    Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af kubana2005
                    Sendt: 2. juni 2008 16:54
                    Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                    Emne: [borderpoint] Re: GBSBE2008

                     

                    How was the Moldova-Pridnjestro vlje border? Is the boundary marked?

                  • kubana2005
                    What I meant is inner Moldovan border (unrecognized).
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 3, 2008
                      What I meant is inner Moldovan border (unrecognized).
                    • Jesper Nielsen/Borderbase
                      We crossed it only at main road from Chisinau to Odessa, sitting in a public bus. I was unable to see anything. The Moldovian-Trandsnistre border is mainly the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 3, 2008

                        We crossed it only at main road from Chisinau to Odessa , sitting in a public bus.

                         

                        I was unable to see anything. The Moldovian-Trandsnistre border is mainly the Dniestre river, as is well defined.

                         

                        Here you can see the Transdniestre control station http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=chisinau&ie=UTF8&ll=46.858416,29.437673&spn=0.010168,0.019999&t=h&z=16, and as you go further west you can locate the MD post. It’s very hard to identify any line.

                         

                        Jesper

                         

                        --

                        Borderbase - your online guide to international borders and tripoints

                        http://www.nicolette.dk/borderbase


                        Fra: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com ] På vegne af kubana2005
                        Sendt: 3. juni 2008 23:19
                        Til: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                        Emne: SV: [borderpoint] Re: GBSBE2008

                         

                        What I meant is inner Moldovan border (unrecognized) .

                      • Razvan Novacovschi
                        Hi Alex, The (very much unrecognized) border there is mostly a river border - the river Nistru (Dniester). The only exception is the city of Tighina (Bender)
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 3, 2008
                          Hi Alex,
                           
                          The (very much unrecognized) border there is mostly a river border - the river Nistru (Dniester). The only exception is the city of Tighina (Bender) which is on the right bank of the river and also under the control of the Trans-dnestrians.
                           
                          Jesper's experience very much mirrors mine, of many years ago. When I was there in 1993 Transnistria had put control booths on the main roads in and out of Tighina (both north towards Chisinau and south towards Olanesti and the Ukrainian border). The Moldovan government did not have anything set up - quite normal as they do not recognize any existing border there. I bet the current 'Moldavian posts' are just police control booths or road blocks if you want, belonging to the Ministry of Interior and not the border police.
                           
                          As this is an ongoing conflict and an unrecognised entity, I doubt any 'interesting features' or terrestrial border markers exist. In fact the occupation of Tighina is, in accordance with the very name of the 'Republic of Transdnestria', anacronic and very much more to do with the desire to keep a significant military bridgehead on the right bank than any serious claim to (defined) territory there.
                           
                          Razvan

                          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:53 PM
                          Subject: [borderpoint] Re: GBSBE2008

                          How was the Moldova-Pridnjestro vlje border? Is the boundary marked?

                        • Jesper Nielsen
                          This nice PMR map http://www.pridnestrovie.net/images/maptransportation.jpg shows the river boundary, but also the border going around Bendery. There are also
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jun 3, 2008
                            This nice PMR map
                            http://www.pridnestrovie.net/images/maptransportation.jpg
                            shows the river boundary, but also the border going around Bendery.

                            There are also two other segments of the border further ssouth with
                            does not follow the river. I am not really sure how these work.
                            Anybody?

                            Jesper

                            --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Razvan Novacovschi"
                            <novacovschi@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Alex,
                            >
                            > The (very much unrecognized) border there is mostly a river border -
                            the river Nistru (Dniester). The only exception is the city of
                            Tighina (Bender) which is on the right bank of the river and also
                            under the control of the Trans-dnestrians.
                            >
                            > Jesper's experience very much mirrors mine, of many years ago. When
                            I was there in 1993 Transnistria had put control booths on the main
                            roads in and out of Tighina (both north towards Chisinau and south
                            towards Olanesti and the Ukrainian border). The Moldovan government
                            did not have anything set up - quite normal as they do not recognize
                            any existing border there. I bet the current 'Moldavian posts' are
                            just police control booths or road blocks if you want, belonging to
                            the Ministry of Interior and not the border police.
                            >
                            > As this is an ongoing conflict and an unrecognised entity, I doubt
                            any 'interesting features' or terrestrial border markers exist. In
                            fact the occupation of Tighina is, in accordance with the very name
                            of the 'Republic of Transdnestria', anacronic and very much more to
                            do with the desire to keep a significant military bridgehead on the
                            right bank than any serious claim to (defined) territory there.
                            >
                            > Razvan
                            >
                            >
                            > From: kubana2005
                            > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:53 PM
                            > To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [borderpoint] Re: GBSBE2008
                            >
                            >
                            > How was the Moldova-Pridnjestrovlje border? Is the boundary marked?
                            >
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