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RE: [borderpoint] Russian paranoia?

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  • Hugh Wallis
    I have had the same experience on board planes upon arriving in Toronto from the Caribbean and, sometimes, from Miami - but not consistently from those points
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 14, 2005
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      I have had the same experience on board planes upon arriving in Toronto from the Caribbean and, sometimes, from Miami - but not consistently from those points of origin. I'm not 100% certain but I think it happened on a flight from the UK once (I seem to recall there were a lot of people on that flight who had obviously transitted in London from points east). My guess is that the "on board" check is either random here or targetted based on particular information received by the immigration authorities.


      From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anton Zeilinger
      Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 4:03 AM
      To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Russian paranoia?

      Yes, Agi's expanation was brilliant, thank you very much.

      Indeed you can experience quite an amount of peculiar controls if you
      arrive in Europe from unusual countries.

      As Wolfgang has already mentioned, the Bundesgrenzschutz sometimes
      has guards at the plane's doors, or as I once experienced even inside
      the plane. I arrived in Frankfurt from Riyadh (on Lufthansa) and
      immediately after landing they came in and checked every passport
      before anybody could get out. I asked the guards what the idea behind
      this was and they said that as soon as somebody leaves the airport,
      he is deemed to be "inside Germany" and can apply for asylum, whereas
      if they "get him" on board ("Wenn wir ihn an Bord schnappen"), he
      cannot do that anymore and they can send him back without further
      procedure...

      Another story: arriving in Rome from Ethiopia en route to Vienna, I
      discovered that the Austrians (my home country) are also highly
      paranoic: They have the policy that anybody entering from
      certain "suspicious" countries (the Italians did not elaborate) had
      to be thoroughly checked before continuing onwards: So I was escorted
      to a special security area, where we waited for my baggage which I
      then had to open in front of them and they went through it. I told
      the guards that I thought this procedure was a little over the top
      and they laughed agreeingly and even apologized but said they could
      not change it, obviously.

      Well, so much for my peculiar immigration stories,

      Anton



      --- In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Wolfgang Schaub"
      <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you so much, Agi. Marvellous! You explained everything.
      >
      > In fact, it turns out we (Germans) also do have Immigration Control
      > (Grenzschutz). Grenzschutz turns up at Frankfurt airport, for
      example, when
      > planes arrive from countries suspect of carrying loads of people
      misusing
      > our asylum regulations. Different to Russia they "greet" you
      already BEFORE
      > you even set foot on German soil, at the door of the plane, so that
      they can
      > hold airlines responsible to take people back to the countries
      where they
      > came from.
      >
      > I understand in Sochi the idea was to keep away Georgians and to
      control the
      > possible movements of Caucasus terrorists.
      >
      > Wolfgang
      >   -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      >   Von: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com]Im
      > Auftrag von Altanhuu Badarch
      >   Gesendet: Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 00:46
      >   An: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      >   Betreff: Re: AW: [borderpoint] Russian paranoia?
      >
      >
      >   Hello everyone,
      >
      >   It is Agi from Mongolian Border Force. Just to add my
      interpretation on
      > these two terms. Generally, they both refer to the control of people
      > crossing the national border of state but they have got some
      >    differences. They are:
      >
      >   1. Idea of Passport Control is narrower than Immigration control
      that it
      > only concerns
      >   the eligibility of passport holder crossing the border and the
      validity of
      > his passport, while
      >   immigration control refers to more complete and complicated
      structure that
      > handles
      >   the matter of the passangers from the crossing of the border to
      the
      > registration, naturalization, citizenship and further process.
      >
      >   2. Immigration control is more about entry while Passport control
      is
      > general.
      >   Immigration control is used in countries where immigration is
      > problem/countries
      >   like OCED, they do not even bother with emmigration control,
      actually do
      > not have/,
      >   while most other countries where both immigration and emigration
      is
      > problem, they
      >   have passport control on both exit and entry of passengers.
      >
      >   3. Immigration control is part of Immigration Control system of
      the
      > country where  border control is under the umbrella of Immigration
      > Authority, as their only mission, under Ministry of Justice or
      Labour, while
      > Passport control is used by the countries where border control is
      run mostly
      > by border police or military or police as part of their mission.
      >
      >   Agi
      >
      >   Wolfgang Schaub <Wolfgang.Schaub@c...> wrote:
      >     The issue was slightly different: Why do the Russians have
      a "passport
      > control" FOLLOWED by an "immigration control"?
      >
      >     My interpretation: Passport control is the routine check (hence
      done by
      > women), while immigration control filters the dubious characters
      out (like
      > me, mountain climber in a seaside resort; the counter, as follows
      logically,
      > is staffed by ex-KGB officers, gorilla-types, asking nasty
      questions).
      >
      >     Wolfgang
      >       -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      >       Von: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von Lowell G. McManus
      >       Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Oktober 2005 03:40
      >       An: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
      >       Betreff: Re: [borderpoint] Russian paranoia?
      >
      >
      >       Jan wrote:
      >
      >       A passport control can be both on departure and arrival, but
      > "immigration" is maybe a more UK/US term?  In mainland Europe I
      think
      > "passport control" is more common.
      >
      >       In Latin America, the offices at border crossings that
      inspect papers
      > and admit persons are called "Migración."
      >
      >       Lowell G. McManus
      >       Leesville, Louisiana, USA
      >
      >
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