## Re: Vertical borders (was: Subway underneath Vatican)

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• I couldn t see your drawing, but no, the planes of borders don t always run orthogonally (perpendicularly) in relation to the slope of surface ground - the
Message 1 of 47 , Nov 30 5:13 PM
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I couldn't see your drawing, but no, the planes of borders don't
always run orthogonally (perpendicularly) in relation to the slope of
surface ground - the plane runs from the center of the earth to a
point where it hits the surface and continues into space.

Every time the water's edge changes in your example, the line
effectively redrawn from the center of the earth to the point on the
surface where the water's edge happens to be at the moment the new
line is drawn.

The plane, when viewed from the theoretical vertical edge of the plane
(or your head is theoretically inserted into the plane so that you can
look down on the plane), appears to be a line when the division is
between to elements with any length to them. That edge, at ground or
water's edge is the border. The border at the earth's surface didn't
"move", the angle of the plane from earth's center changed, resulting
in a new point where it meets the earth's surface. If the ground
happens to be a mountainside slope of 89 degrees, that doesn't mean
the vertical plane takes a turn from the vertical from the earth's
center at that point.

Theoretically, you could put a tube through the vertical plane (within
which a sovereign not on either side of the plane could exercise
jurisdiction). Take a bridge on the Belgian Vennbahn where the
territory on both sides of the tracks is German - put a tube of German
sovereignty under the tracks down to the base foundation of the road
below the tracks, and make the tube as wide as the airspace between
the bridge pillars, and you can image what I mean by a tube of German
sovereignty that goes through the two vertical planes left and right
of the railway tracks above. If the tracks were curved at that point,
and were banked at 10 degrees off vertical, that wouldn't change the
the fact that the border planes left and right from the track come
from a point at the center of the earth (not quite parallel from the
center point). In the case of the Vennbahn, you can imagine how the
Belgian territory beneath the tracks to the center of the earth gets
ever smaller and eventually disappears at the center.

border plane from the center of the earth is ever exactly orthogonal
with respect to a level plot of land at the surface of the earth, when
viewed as a border that goes around some country. Every country's
space deep below the earth's surface turns to nothing. Every
country's airspace gets larger as one travels further from earth.

If the border planes changed direction at the earth's surface as
elevation increased above earth to be perpendicular to the slope at
the earth's surface, some countries could easily be cheated of
airspace. With bent border planes, San Marino's airspace would crowd
out Italy's - with only small exceptions, all of its borders traverse
outward facing slopes from Mt. Titano. By what measure of exactness
would the degree of change be calculated - overall mountain slope, or
a shovel full mount of dirt? By moving the dirt, you could change the
amount of airspace a country has. It's highly impractical, I think,
to hold onto the opinion you said you held.

LN
• No, and it has not been any border issues concerning Queen Maud Land during the last 20 years (as far as I am aware of). BTW, a NO expedition is now on the way
Message 47 of 47 , Dec 15, 2007
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No, and it has not been any border issues concerning Queen Maud Land during
the last 20 years (as far as I am aware of).
BTW, a NO expedition is now on the way from Troll in QML to the South Pole
on Haakon VII Land, 96 years after Roald Amundsen's expedition.
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article2154122.ece

Jan

-----Original Message-----
From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Jan
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 12:28 AM
To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Re: Christmas puzzle

Dronning Maud's land!
(The Norwegian clain in the Antarctic)

/Jan

Den 2007-12-14 14:03:45 skrev Jan S. Krogh <jakro64@...>:

> No, it is not at the border to Russia. Your interpretation on my
> no-statements are correct indeed, but I am looking for the exact
> location of
> the area. In fact this puzzle should not very difficult. ;-)
>
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of ray
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 1:47 PM
> To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [borderpoint] Re: Christmas puzzle
>
>
> Probably the most ludicrous guess of the day.....Russia? Well
> TECHNICALLY when the USSR broke up, it became another 'country'.
> Sorry, Jan, worst guess so far. You didn't say that the flag WASN'T
> Norwegian, and that the border HAD changed in the last 20 years.---
> In borderpoint@yahoogroups.com, "Jan S. Krogh" <jakro64@...> wrote:
> >
> > No, it is not Sweden. A Swedish (or Icelandic) trafic sign would
> have a
> > yellow background colour.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:borderpoint@yahoogroups.com]On
> > Behalf Of Artur Kroc
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:44 PM
> > To: borderpoint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [borderpoint] Christmas puzzle
> >
> >
> > Flag in the background looks like Norwegian. Similar sticked
> rods along
> > roads I've seen in Norway. So...
> >
> > Sweden ;)???
> >
> > Jan S. Krogh napisa³(a):
> >
> >
> >
> > Folks!
> >
> > Who is first to tell where this photo is taken..? ;-)
> > http://geosite.jankrogh.com/Image2.jpg
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > --
> > Las Vegas wsrod portali! Sprawdz >> http://www.interia.pl/
> >
>
>
>
>