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Re: [bookartsconnection] Re: black and white negs of mission, courthouse, pier area, etc.

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  • Linda Snook
    Dear Barry, Thank you so much for your professional perspective on digital photography: very informative and thoughtful. I d love to hear more on the subject
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 30, 2004
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      Dear Barry,

      Thank you so much for your professional perspective on digital
      photography: very informative and thoughtful. I'd love to hear
      more on the subject of professional quality digital images,
      best techniques for conversion of "analogue" images to digital,
      as well as countless other issues of which I am not yet aware.

      All the best,
      Linda

      At 11:40 AM 6/30/2004 -0700, you wrote:
      >Good day -
      >-- Do you mean you have black & white negatives that you want to make
      >into prints? Or are you looking for black and white negatives to
      >make into prints?
      >.
      >-- These days, with the liability of chemical use, the danger associated
      >with darkrooms, loss of insurance when it is discovered that
      >chemicals are being used in many situations, the advances in digital
      >photography and printing - I'd certainly investigate digital before I
      >moved to build a darkroon again.
      >-- The largest camera I've ever worked in was in Fresno, 8' x 8' x 30' (
      >yes that is feet, worked inside it ) and we could make very large
      >prints - but all my chemicals were also inside the camera. Today the
      >commercial studio I associate with has completely abandoned film -
      >even larger formats - after more than 35 years in the photography
      >business. The large format prints being made are up to 40" x 60", sell
      >for upwards of $1800 per print, prints with true pigments, and have a
      >print life that exceeds most other forms of printing. Kodak gives a
      >print life of 25-50 years for a print ( depending on display circumstances
      >) and of course can be much longer lived. Epson digital prints
      >when done on archival papers with archival quality media are projected to
      >last 200 years in museum display. Olympus dye-sub prints are
      >basically the exact same thing you might get from a professional lab these
      >days.
      >-- And - with digital - once the file is created - the photo can be
      >printed again should the need ever arise. No so - Ansel Adams prints
      >took up to two weeks for each print with all the dodging and burning.
      >-- A brand new, really top quality digital printer that will print up to
      >12x16's costs much less to buy than nearly any piece of darkroom
      >equipment. Although the large format negative scanner did cost a LOT of
      >money. But for a few items - take them to a professional scanning
      >service to create a digital file to print as large as you could ever want
      >- $3 - $7 maybe for a good scan.
      >.
      >-- But what convinced us was the ongoing cost of chemicals, the risk of
      >use of the chemicals, the illegality of disposing of the chemicals,
      >the insurance associated with using chemicals ( cost of ins, limitations,
      >exclusions, etc.) - just getting to be too much in light of the
      >quality you can get with todays digital equipment.
      >.
      >Have fun.
      >
      >Barry Kintner - a2z@... - Phoenix, Arizona
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Barry A. Kintner
      Good day - -- I d be happy to post some information - give me an idea of what you might like to know. I ve written probably two dozen articles on various
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 1, 2004
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        Good day -
        -- I'd be happy to post some information - give me an idea of what you might like to know. I've written probably two dozen articles on
        various aspects of the digital world in the past couple of years. But those articles were for an industry group who are not artists. So I
        would break the subject down a bit differently. These articles range from selecting a computer, hardware, software, use, cameras, audio,
        and periferal issues.
        .
        -- The book Jill mentioned sounds very interesting - and is definitely directed at areas of interest to this group. I certainly will take a
        look at it when I get an opportunity.
        .
        -- Maxine's point is well taken. If you already have a darkroom - you get to experience traditional methods. In today's world I cannot
        imagine many people could set up a lab at home, or in any school. I know of insurance companies that will cancel a mortgage insurance
        policy if they find chemicals of any kind beyond household chemicals ( which is puzzling in light of the poisonous and explosive nature of
        some home chemical substances ) - this did happed to me ( my parents ). There was a visit by an insurance agent to the home - one day later
        a certified letter came cancelling the homeowners policy. Today that can cause the mortgage holder to call in the balance of a mortgage,
        leaving one to decide if you want insurance and a home or to keep the items in question. A cancellation of insurance happened a couple of
        months ago within a mile of my home and the owners actually had to leave and sell the property in their situation. Not good.
        -- A bonus for digital photography is the student is able to concentrate on composition and that all important first lesson of filling the
        frame with your subject. And not spending money on film and developing does allow us to look at many more photos than we might take if that
        cost is a factor either personally or in a class. Just don't use that 'delete' button as it is to easy to delete a photo that can teach you
        something.
        -- Kids are pretty much hard-wired for computer use, and getting people to 'see' is the challenge anyway. So the old challenge of getting
        the image you want is a focus of much teaching and not relying of software technique. All the old thoughts of what makes a good photograph
        are still present - no matter the final use.
        -- As for making the transition from 'analoge' to digital - there are many possiblilties. If you have film negatives or positives ( slides
        ) you can choose to have them scanned in professionally at very high resolution ( the studio's scanner scans at 4000 dpi for preparation of
        medium format film negatives to be printed in-house at up to 40" x 60" ) which can make for some extremely large image files. The largest
        in the studio that I am aware of was 900 meg - for one photo. This may not mean anything to you at this stage of learning - but trust
        me - this was large file. Great hardware and software is required to make the best use of it.
        -- If you are an artist / amateur / home user type - there are still a dizzying array of choices. You can get a home scanner of cheap to
        very expensive quality, several different kinds of software that will give you options, and some have hardware options too ( from scanning
        your own photographs, to film and negative scanning, to scanning 3d objects ).
        -- Actually the subject of scanning is an entire discipline in itself. Even inexpensive scanners can produce some very good images - the
        software is a key here - and they do last for a long time when taken care of. They are really simple devices.
        -- The book 'It Starts with a Scan' is a good place to begin. I've had mine for quite some time - and I am not sure if it is available in
        some updated / current version - but it is a good one and oft recommended.
        -- There are numerous sites on the internet with free tutorials too. Use the electronic world to continue the life of beloved handcrafts.
        .
        -- If anyone is interested, please give me some questions, or areas of interest, and I will attempt to answer them here. Remember - no one
        person is a computer expert - some just know more than others - temporarily. It is a field that is ever-changing and progressing. No one
        person will have all the answers you need ( or that I need ) - but I am happy to pass along what I do know - which just never seems to be
        enough.
        .

        Barry Kintner - a2z@... - Phoenix, Arizona
      • Pam Maines
        I have a question for anyone with experience dealing with preserving newspaper articles. I tend to photocopy anything I want to last, knowing how quickly
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 3, 2004
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          I have a question for anyone with experience dealing with preserving
          newspaper articles. I tend to photocopy anything I want to last,
          knowing how quickly newsprint yellows and falls apart. (I have
          plenty of old scrapbook items that fit that description.) However,
          my stepdaughter's fiance proposed to her by printing a "mock"
          engagement announcement on newsprint and inserting it in the Sunday
          paper and she wants to preserve the actual document for posterity.
          She's wondering whether laminating it is the best idea or whether
          there is another technique to maintain the newsprint "feel" without
          risking eventual disintegration. If any of you has a suggestion,
          we'd greatly appreciate it.

          Thanks!
          Pam
          --

          __________________________________________________

          Pam Maines
          pam@...
          805-964-6742
          __________________________________________________
        • Jill Littlewood
          The only way I know of to preserve newsprint is to deacidify it with Wei to or a similar buffering spray - Book Keeper is another one ( I have some so unless
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 3, 2004
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            The only way I know of to preserve newsprint is to deacidify it with Wei'to
            or a similar buffering spray - Book Keeper is another one ( I have some so
            unless you have a lot to spray just bring the piece by and we'll de-acidify
            it). Then it should be encapsulated in mylar with archival double sided
            tape keeping the mylar together. Or put it in one of the acid free pages
            Light Impressions sells - which they have at any good photo shop around town
            (the advantage of Light Impressions as well as other conservation suppliers
            is the wealth of information in their catalogues).

            With newsprint, or any other acidic paper, you can never reverse the aging
            from acid attack but you can arrest it with these buffering agents so it is
            good to do something as quickly as possible. The plastic protections are to
            avoid deterioration from handling since newsprint is not a strong paper.

            When you laminate anything you enclose it and trap the acid along with the
            paper - it will continue to decay but the plastic will support it as it
            weakens. It all depends on how conservation minded you want to be -
            conservators consider the best solutions to be reversable so they go for
            de-acidifying and enclosing in a reversable way, which laminating is not.

            Jill
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Pam Maines" <pam@...>
            To: <bookartsconnection@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 1:50 PM
            Subject: [bookartsconnection] Preserving newprint


            > I have a question for anyone with experience dealing with preserving
            > newspaper articles. I tend to photocopy anything I want to last,
            > knowing how quickly newsprint yellows and falls apart. (I have
            > plenty of old scrapbook items that fit that description.) However,
            > my stepdaughter's fiance proposed to her by printing a "mock"
            > engagement announcement on newsprint and inserting it in the Sunday
            > paper and she wants to preserve the actual document for posterity.
            > She's wondering whether laminating it is the best idea or whether
            > there is another technique to maintain the newsprint "feel" without
            > risking eventual disintegration. If any of you has a suggestion,
            > we'd greatly appreciate it.
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Pam
            > --
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            >
            > Pam Maines
            > pam@...
            > 805-964-6742
            > __________________________________________________
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • francesj14@cox.net
            I am not sure if this works for all news papers as they do vary. but I do have newspapers saved from 30 yrs ago by simply keeping them in a plastic bag with
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 4, 2004
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              I am not sure if this works for all news papers as they
              do vary. but I do have newspapers saved from 30 yrs
              ago by simply keeping them in a plastic bag with
              baking soda sprinkled within its pages, and in a trunk.

              They have not yellowed but they seem to be more gray
              but not crumpled or fragile. I think it is because they
              were kept in the dark away from any sunlight. I think no
              sunlight and baking soda powder is the key. The
              baking soda does keeps the acid in control. Of course
              making copies is always as added insurance and a
              good idea.

              I have enjoyed going back and reading the news along
              side the reason I saved the paper and remember how
              things were so different then.

              frances
              > From: Pam Maines <pam@...>
              > Date: 2004/07/03 Sat PM 04:50:03 EDT
              > To: bookartsconnection@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [bookartsconnection] Preserving newprint
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • monguio
              I remeber seeing a tip on that book that Pat had published with tips and resources. It involved soaking the newsprint in a solution of water and milk of
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 4, 2004
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                I remeber seeing a tip on that book that Pat had published with tips and
                resources. It involved soaking the newsprint in a solution of water and milk
                of magenesium, but I can't remeber proportions or times. Anyone? Patrice,
                are you still here in cyberspace?

                Ines
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Pam Maines" <pam@...>
                To: <bookartsconnection@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 13:50
                Subject: [bookartsconnection] Preserving newprint


                > I have a question for anyone with experience dealing with preserving
                > newspaper articles. I tend to photocopy anything I want to last,
                > knowing how quickly newsprint yellows and falls apart. (I have
                > plenty of old scrapbook items that fit that description.) However,
                > my stepdaughter's fiance proposed to her by printing a "mock"
                > engagement announcement on newsprint and inserting it in the Sunday
                > paper and she wants to preserve the actual document for posterity.
                > She's wondering whether laminating it is the best idea or whether
                > there is another technique to maintain the newsprint "feel" without
                > risking eventual disintegration. If any of you has a suggestion,
                > we'd greatly appreciate it.
                >
                > Thanks!
                > Pam
                > --
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                >
                > Pam Maines
                > pam@...
                > 805-964-6742
                > __________________________________________________
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • askengel@aol.com
                What ever happened to that book that Pat was putting together? I never saw it. Did it ever get finished? Sharon
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 4, 2004
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                  What ever happened to that book that Pat was putting together?
                  I never saw it. Did it ever get finished?
                  Sharon
                • Pam Maines
                  Thanks to those of you who responded to my request for ideas for preserving newsprint; I ve passed them along to my stepdaughter. Pam --
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 10, 2004
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                    Thanks to those of you who responded to my request for ideas for
                    preserving newsprint; I've passed them along to my stepdaughter.

                    Pam
                    --

                    __________________________________________________

                    Pam Maines
                    pam@...
                    805-964-6742
                    __________________________________________________
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