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Chebacco sails

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  • Bill Paxton
    Most of the catboats I ve seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a mizzen?
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 6, 2001
      Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
      they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
      mizzen?
    • jboatguy@cs.com
      PCB admits Chebacco will probably be marginally slower than a cousin with a single large mainsail, but he broke up the sailplan to mitigate the problems of
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 6, 2001
        PCB admits Chebacco will probably be marginally slower than a cousin
        with a single large mainsail, but he broke up the sailplan to
        mitigate the problems of traditional catboats. These include:
        difficulty in reaching the clew when reefing, a long boom that can
        trip the boat, a center-of-effort well offset from vessel centerline
        when off the wind (making for 'hard mouth' cats), more difficult
        handling of one large sail as opposed to two smaller ones, inability
        to heave-to, charging around at anchor, and a larger mast well up in
        the bow where weight really counts.

        Two smaller sails help in all those areas, and eliminate some
        problems altogether, such as charging around at anchor, reefing
        difficulties, and heaving-to. Plus, there is the added bonus of
        being able to trim the mizzen to balance the boat, allowing her to
        self-steer. All in all, I think it makes for a very fair tradeoff.

        John O'Neill




        --- In bolger@y..., "Bill Paxton" <bill@p...> wrote:
        > Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
        > they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
        > mizzen?
      • seagulloutb
        Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova Scotia. Fraser, in my
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
          Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
          foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
          Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
          jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
          private email to me:
          =======
          "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
          mast, at
          least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
          overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off the
          wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is with
          too
          much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in light
          breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if you are
          going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone, especially
          in
          close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
          However,
          jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making other
          boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib would
          improve
          upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
          but
          am pinching to do so."
          ====
          Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they sell
          and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a 3'
          bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over $200
          as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, and they'd
          come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser's comments
          as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd not be
          tempted, at least not for the coming season.
        • Roger Derby
          I m going thru O Brian s Aubrey/Maturing series again and I was struck by the fact that one needed to carefully time and sequence the spreading of the sails.
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
            I'm going thru O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturing series again and I was struck by
            the fact that one needed to carefully time and sequence the spreading of the
            sails. Set too much, too fast and the masts go. Add small increments after
            the hull has come up to speed and you can get away with it.

            Dinghies don't have the inertia of a 50 gun ship of the line, and our
            shrouds are better stuff, but the idea's still valid.

            Sailing downwind is DANGEROUS. There's little apparent wind to let you know
            you've waited too long to reef, and if you round up or broach you get the
            full effect RIGHT NOW!

            Roger (what's "I @ S" ????)
            derbyrm@...
            http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@...>

            > Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
            > foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
            > Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
            > jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
            > private email to me:
            > =======
            > "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
            > mast, at least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
            > to overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink
            > off the wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is
            > with too much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its
            > good in light breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to
            > handle if you are going to be tacking much.
          • Nels
            ... the ... Hi Roger, Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can t recall it right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-) Not
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
              > foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
              > Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
              > jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
              > private email to me:
              > =======
              > "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
              > mast, at
              > least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
              > overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off
              the
              > wind without one.

              Hi Roger,

              Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
              right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)

              Not meaning to put words in Jamie Orr's mouth but I believe what he
              was interested in, was using it when the winds are under 10 knots and
              looking like they will stay that way. Something to do before
              unshipping the yuloh or firing up the stink pot.

              Reading 100 Small Boat Rigs - Rig #51 almost looks like it is a gaff
              rig on a Micro with a spinnaker. But he goes on to explain that it is
              a scow hull with a large well forward in which a second hand can
              stand while working the spinnaker.

              This may be another reason why the latest up-date of Micro Navigator
              has a larger forward well, and a second companionway forward -
              allowing fof a spinnaker option to be suggested. Also, if an aluminum
              pipe is used for a mast, it might have the added stiffness allowing
              the spinnaker to work more efficiently than with a tapered wooden
              mast. Another option might be an untapered birdsmouth mast with some
              added carbon fiber.

              Looks like a nice option to have, if all the other changes are in
              place.

              Cheers, Nels
            • Roger Derby
              You got it. Frazer Howell s boat is named Itchy and Scratchy. (From the Registry at http://www.chebacco.com/ ) Thanks, Roger derbyrm@starband.net
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
                You got it. Frazer Howell's boat is named "Itchy and Scratchy."

                (From the Registry at http://www.chebacco.com/ )

                Thanks,
                Roger
                derbyrm@...
                http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
                > wrote:
                >> Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
                >> foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
                >> Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
                >> jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
                >> private email to me:
                >> =======
                >> "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
                >> mast, at least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
                >> to overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink
                >> off the wind without one.
                >
                > Hi Roger,
                >
                > Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
                > right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)
              • paulthober
                I think the reason for the mizzen is to provide balance - at least that is what I found. It (the mizzen) provides little drive, but allowed me to trim the
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
                  I think the reason for the mizzen is to provide balance - at least
                  that is what I found. It (the mizzen) provides little drive, but
                  allowed me to trim the sails to where I didn't need to steer or even
                  lash the tiller when sailing upwind - an admirable trait when
                  singlehanding. Were I to suggest any changes to the rig it would be to
                  increase the areas of both sails, particularly the main to give the
                  boat a bit more umph in light airs as this would not increase the
                  complexity of the rig - one would merely need to reef sooner.

                  Paul Thober

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Paxton" <bill@p...> wrote:
                  > Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
                  > they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
                  > mizzen?
                • Richard Spelling
                  hehe Talk to Vincenzo Ciminale. He uses a jib, and a mizzen staysail... http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco15.10/article.htm ... to ... the ... with ...
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 13, 2005
                    hehe
                    Talk to Vincenzo Ciminale. He uses a jib, and a mizzen staysail...

                    http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco15.10/article.htm

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
                    > foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
                    > Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
                    > jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
                    > private email to me:
                    > =======
                    > "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
                    > mast, at
                    > least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
                    to
                    > overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off
                    the
                    > wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is
                    with
                    > too
                    > much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in
                    light
                    > breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if you
                    are
                    > going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone,
                    especially
                    > in
                    > close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
                    > However,
                    > jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making
                    other
                    > boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib would
                    > improve
                    > upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
                    > but
                    > am pinching to do so."
                    > ====
                    > Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they
                    sell
                    > and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a
                    3'
                    > bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over
                    $200
                    > as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, and
                    they'd
                    > come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser's
                    comments
                    > as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd not
                    be
                    > tempted, at least not for the coming season.
                  • derbyrm
                    I m getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder about the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20 Chebacco with and without the jib? Does
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 27, 2007
                      I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder about
                      the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and without the
                      jib? Does it make a huge improvement?

                      Roger
                      derbyrm@...
                      http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                    • Nels
                      ... about ... without the ... http://chebacco.com/ Maybe check directly with some of the owners - like Ben Ho. I think about four Chebaccos have jibs. The
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 27, 2007
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder
                        about
                        > the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and
                        without the
                        > jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
                        >
                        > Roger
                        > derbyrm@...
                        > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                        >
                        http://chebacco.com/

                        Maybe check directly with some of the owners - like Ben Ho. I think
                        about four Chebaccos have jibs. The concensus seems to be - it depends.

                        Seems hardly worth the effort if solo and yet might entertain a bored
                        crew.

                        Nels
                      • Jamie Orr
                        Hi Roger, I have the jib, as drawn by PCB, and I can tell you it really isn t worth it (my opinion based on my experience) unless you put on a bowsprit. I
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 27, 2007
                          Hi Roger,

                          I have the jib, as drawn by PCB, and I can tell you it really isn't
                          worth it (my opinion based on my experience) unless you put on a
                          bowsprit. I don't have a bowsprit, so I have the tack at the bow of
                          my Chebacco. When both main and jib are set, going to windward the
                          jib spoils the flow to the main, and running, it is blanketed by the
                          main. If set with the mizzen only, no main, it worked well downwind
                          and across the wind instead of reefing the main in stronger wind,
                          but
                          I've never found it worthwhile doing much with it. One day I'll
                          probably try a bowsprit but meanwhile I like the simplicity of the
                          original rig.

                          Chuck Gottfried uses a larger jib, Sailrite has the dimensions, and
                          he
                          also has a bowsprit -- you can reach him for details by going to
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sucia/ He also has roller furling and
                          this arrangement has been very effective. I've sailed alongside him
                          (and behind him!)

                          The new owner of Sylvester, Richard, also uses a larger jib on a
                          bowsprit and has had good experience with it. You can find him
                          through www.chebacco.com

                          Cheers,

                          Jamie Orr
                          Chebacco Wayward Lass


                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and
                          wonder
                          about
                          > the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and
                          without the
                          > jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
                          >
                          > Roger
                          > derbyrm@...
                          > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                          >
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