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Teal or Surf?

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  • John Ewing
    Happy New Year to all. I have just put a money order in the mail to PCB for Cabin Clam Skiff plans. But I feel I need a little building experience first
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 29, 2000
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      Happy New Year to all. I have just put a money order in the mail to PCB for Cabin Clam Skiff plans. But I feel I need a little building experience first through Teal or Surf plans from Payson. At first I preferred Surf because, as it eats up only two sheets of plywood, I'd be able to get on to Clam Skiff sooner. But then I got thinking about post-construction utility and now I'm thinking that Surf would be a more useful boat since it's apparently capable of carrying more than one 'full-sized' adult. I anticipate single-handed sailing on our lake-like Portage Inlet but it would be nice to include my wife (when she screws up the courage) or brother-in-law when he comes over from Salt Spring to visit. Payson's 'Instant Boats' outlines building Teal in detail but maybe Surf isn't all that different?
       
      John in Victoria (where today its dry and relatively mild at 8 deg. C/46 deg. F)
    • Chris Crandall
      ... Do you mean Teal here? Surf is bigger than Teal. If I recall correctly, Teal took 3 sheets of plywood, and then some, for rudder, etc. Maybe I recall
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 29, 2000
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        On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, John Ewing wrote:
        > experience first through Teal or Surf plans from Payson. At first I
        > preferred Surf because, as it eats up only two sheets of plywood

        Do you mean "Teal" here? Surf is bigger than Teal. If I recall
        correctly, Teal took 3 sheets of plywood, and then some, for rudder, etc.
        Maybe I recall incorrectly. Two sheets for the sides, then there's the
        bottom, scrap for frames, more for daggerboard, rudder, cross-spalls, and
        so on.

        > post-construction utility and now I'm thinking that Surf would be a
        > more useful boat since it's apparently capable of carrying more than
        > one 'full-sized' adult. I anticipate single-handed sailing on our
        > lake-like Portage Inlet but it would be nice to include my wife (when
        > she screws up the courage) or brother-in-law when he comes over from
        > Salt Spring to visit.

        Teal will sail two full-size adults who are on good terms, and don't mind
        bumping into each other. It rows two full-size adults quite well. We
        even hung a 1.2hp Tanaka off the starboard quarter, using a little
        ingenuity, and motored about quite comfortably (steering with the rudder).

        But Surf is definitely more boat.

        > Payson's 'Instant Boats' outlines building Teal in detail but maybe
        > Surf isn't all that different?

        It's not.

        Chris Crandall crandall@... (785) 864-4131
        Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
        I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
      • StepHydro@aol.com
        John, Surf isn t much different to Teal, and the building time is little different as well. Time is taken in the jointsa and assembilng the different bits. The
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 29, 2000
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          John,

          Surf isn't much different to Teal, and the building time is little different
          as well. Time is taken in the jointsa and assembilng the different bits. The
          fact that the bits are somewhat larger matters little.

          If you do Surf...you won't regret it. However, if you build Teal, every time
          you want to take an extra cooler along, you'll wish you'd.....

          Cheers/Step
        • John Ewing
          ... I ... Yes, sorry, I did mean Teal (as the smaller boat). My proofreading let me down. John
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 29, 2000
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            --- In bolger@egroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@u...> wrote:
            > On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, John Ewing wrote:
            > > experience first through Teal or Surf plans from Payson. At first
            I
            > > preferred Surf because, as it eats up only two sheets of plywood
            >
            > Do you mean "Teal" here? Surf is bigger than Teal...

            Yes, sorry, I did mean Teal (as the smaller boat). My proofreading
            let me down.

            John
          • John Ewing
            Thanks for the feedback, Step and Chris. Surf it is, then. I m just back from mailing the money order to Dynamite. John ... different ... bits. The ... every
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 29, 2000
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              Thanks for the feedback, Step and Chris. Surf it is, then. I'm just
              back from mailing the money order to Dynamite.
              John

              --- In bolger@egroups.com, StepHydro@a... wrote:
              > John,
              >
              > Surf isn't much different to Teal, and the building time is little
              different
              > as well. Time is taken in the jointsa and assembilng the different
              bits. The
              > fact that the bits are somewhat larger matters little.
              >
              > If you do Surf...you won't regret it. However, if you build Teal,
              every time
              > you want to take an extra cooler along, you'll wish you'd.....
              >
              > Cheers/Step
            • David Ryan
              I love love love my teal, but if I had it to do over again, I d build a surf. As it is, my teal is going to become a tender for the LSME, and I m going to
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 30, 2000
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                I love love love my teal, but if I had it to do over again, I'd build a surf.

                As it is, my teal is going to become a tender for the LSME, and I'm
                going to build a surf for my beach boat.

                YIBB,

                David





                Happy New Year to all. I have just put a money order in the mail to
                PCB for Cabin Clam Skiff plans. But I feel I need a little building
                experience first through Teal or Surf plans from Payson. At first I
                preferred Surf because, as it eats up only two sheets of plywood, I'd
                be able to get on to Clam Skiff sooner. But then I got thinking about
                post-construction utility and now I'm thinking that Surf would be a
                more useful boat since it's apparently capable of carrying more than
                one 'full-sized' adult. I anticipate single-handed sailing on our
                lake-like Portage Inlet but it would be nice to include my wife (when
                she screws up the courage) or brother-in-law when he comes over from
                Salt Spring to visit. Payson's 'Instant Boats' outlines building Teal
                in detail but maybe Surf isn't all that different?

                John in Victoria (where today its dry and relatively mild at 8 deg.
                C/46 deg. F)

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              • DGO
                - ... Noticed that a Coleman 12-pack cooler is almost exactly the same size as the removable rowing seat.... One advantage to the Teal is that I can carry it
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 3, 2001
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                  -
                  > > If you do Surf...you won't regret it. However, if you build Teal,
                  > every time
                  > > you want to take an extra cooler along, you'll wish you'd.....


                  Noticed that a Coleman 12-pack cooler is almost exactly the same size
                  as the removable rowing seat....

                  One advantage to the Teal is that I can carry it alone. Makes for
                  a lot of strange looks at the boat ramp.

                  Seriously though. I live between the Chesapeake Bay and Patuxent
                  River. I built a Teal, and while it is fun to take out on the river
                  with my son, ( 2 years old, ~25 lbs ) it is a little small for my
                  wife's comfort. And on the bay, it is just an adventure. The average
                  summer conditions on the bay are winds 5-10 knots, waves 1/2 - 1
                  foot. It's the waves that make me nervous, especially when they get
                  over 1 ft. Combined with boat or PWC wakes, they are inspirational.
                  Breaking waves are scary in a Teal.



                  I am therefore thinking of building bigger. Way Bigger: none of the
                  normal "instant boats" look like they would be comfortable in 1 ft
                  waves.

                  Currently the requirements list is:
                  * Confortable in 1 foot waves,
                  * Can allow use of a head in privacy while underway
                  (right now my son calls the bailing bucket the
                  "boat potty" )
                  * nominally trailerable (but won't be an embarrasement
                  to keep in a slip)
                  * controlled from an open cockpit ( "birdwatcher"
                  cabins look unconfortable to me - too hot).
                  * Single-handed operation


                  The List of Bolger designs that I think might be close are:
                  Chebacco
                  Black Skimmer
                  Martha Jane

                  Any other designs folks know of that might meet the current set of
                  requirements?

                  DGO
                • jmbell@mindspring.com
                  Another good choice might be Micro, if the fixed 18 draft isn t too much of a problem on the Bay. You could also consider some of Jim Michalak s boats, too.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 3, 2001
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                    Another good choice might be Micro, if the fixed 18" draft isn't too much of a problem on the Bay. You could also consider some of Jim Michalak's boats, too. In the 20' range, you could build a Frolic2 or an AF2. Their cabins would allow semi-privacy for someone using the head.

                    JB



                    DGO Wrote:
                    Currently the requirements list is:
                    * Confortable in 1 foot waves,
                    * Can allow use of a head in privacy while underway
                    (right now my son calls the bailing bucket the
                    "boat potty" )
                    * nominally trailerable (but won't be an embarrasement
                    to keep in a slip)
                    * controlled from an open cockpit ( "birdwatcher"
                    cabins look unconfortable to me - too hot).
                    * Single-handed operation


                    The List of Bolger designs that I think might be close are:
                    Chebacco
                    Black Skimmer
                    Martha Jane

                    Any other designs folks know of that might meet the current set of
                    requirements?

                    DGO







                    Bolger rules!!!
                    - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                    - no flogging dead horses
                    - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                    - stay on topic and punctuate
                    - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                  • John O'Neill
                    ... They may not look it, but at least some of them are. I have 2 Cartoppers and sail them in the Carquinez Straits/Delta area of Northern CA. They laugh at
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 3, 2001
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                      >>none of the
                      > normal "instant boats" look like they would be comfortable in 1 ft
                      > waves.<<

                      They may not look it, but at least some of them are. I have 2
                      Cartoppers and sail them in the Carquinez Straits/Delta area of
                      Northern CA. They laugh at 1 foot waves. I've never taken anything
                      but a spongefull of water from powerboat wakes (and that only in a
                      calm when I took a breaking wave over the side from a huge and rudely
                      handled cruiser), and over 99% of the time they take no water at
                      all. I used to sail an old wooden Snipe on the Chesepeake out of the
                      Severn River. The Snipe would take solid water over her bow
                      regularly when pressed hard. Cartopper never has, not even close,
                      not even close to close. I got a lot wetter in the Snipe then I get
                      in Cartopper. If you want to go bigger, fine, but don't do it solely
                      because the little boats don't look like they can handle the bay.

                      By the way Cartoppper is comfortable with 2 aboard for reasonable
                      periods of time, and will handle 4 in flat water, if one of the 4 is
                      small. See picture in the files.

                      John


                      > Noticed that a Coleman 12-pack cooler is almost exactly the same
                      size
                      > as the removable rowing seat....
                      >
                      > One advantage to the Teal is that I can carry it alone. Makes for
                      > a lot of strange looks at the boat ramp.
                      >
                      > Seriously though. I live between the Chesapeake Bay and Patuxent
                      > River. I built a Teal, and while it is fun to take out on the river
                      > with my son, ( 2 years old, ~25 lbs ) it is a little small for my
                      > wife's comfort. And on the bay, it is just an adventure. The
                      average
                      > summer conditions on the bay are winds 5-10 knots, waves 1/2 - 1
                      > foot. It's the waves that make me nervous, especially when they get
                      > over 1 ft. Combined with boat or PWC wakes, they are
                      inspirational.
                      > Breaking waves are scary in a Teal.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I am therefore thinking of building bigger. Way Bigger: none of the
                      > normal "instant boats" look like they would be comfortable in 1 ft
                      > waves.
                      >
                      > Currently the requirements list is:
                      > * Confortable in 1 foot waves,
                      > * Can allow use of a head in privacy while underway
                      > (right now my son calls the bailing bucket the
                      > "boat potty" )
                      > * nominally trailerable (but won't be an embarrasement
                      > to keep in a slip)
                      > * controlled from an open cockpit ( "birdwatcher"
                      > cabins look unconfortable to me - too hot).
                      > * Single-handed operation
                      >
                      >
                      > The List of Bolger designs that I think might be close are:
                      > Chebacco
                      > Black Skimmer
                      > Martha Jane
                      >
                      > Any other designs folks know of that might meet the current set of
                      > requirements?
                      >
                      > DGO
                    • StepHydro@aol.com
                      Don t forget to look at Michalak s offerings, too. Some mighty fine boats in your size range...AF3, e.g. Cheers/Step In a message dated 01/03/2001
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 3, 2001
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                        Don't forget to look at Michalak's offerings, too. Some mighty fine boats in
                        your size range...AF3, e.g.

                        Cheers/Step

                        In a message dated 01/03/2001 9:<BR49:<BR04 AM
                        Eastern Standard , oswald@... writes:> The List of Bolger
                        designs that I think might be close are:
                        > Chebacco
                        > Black Skimmer
                        > Martha Jane
                        >
                        > Any other designs folks know of that might meet the current set of
                        > requirements?
                      • Stan Muller
                        ... Gee, let me think, how about a Micro? Stan, S.G.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 3, 2001
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                          > Any other designs folks know of that might meet the current set of
                          > requirements?
                          >

                          Gee, let me think, how about a Micro?
                          Stan, S.G.
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