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Heating so Epoxy Cures

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  • randall robar
    Hi Gang, Just as I m ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for several hours to
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 20, 2000
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      Hi Gang,

      Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
      temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
      several hours to cure. So the questions are:

      (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?

      (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold (gasp!)
      until spring?

      Thanks,
      randy
      grounded and cold in boston
    • Mike Stockstill
      Hi - I use in my cellar a small electric heater, and I surround the heater and the work with 4 x8 sheets of styrofoam insulation. I don t crank the heat up
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 20, 2000
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        Hi -

        I use in my cellar a small electric heater, and I surround the heater
        and the work with 4'x8' sheets of styrofoam insulation. I don't
        crank the heat up too high, and this seems to work just fine. At the
        moment I am curing Martha Jane original rudder support assembly. I
        did the leeboards last week.

        Mike


        --- In bolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
        > Hi Gang,
        >
        > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
        > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
        for
        > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
        >
        > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
        >
        > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
        (gasp!)
        > until spring?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > randy
        > grounded and cold in boston
      • Orr, Jamie
        Randy It can be done, but how safe depends on your setup. Your electric bill may soar. Kerosene heaters work well, and even hot water bottles (refilled every
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 20, 2000
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          Randy

          It can be done, but how safe depends on your setup. Your electric bill may
          soar. Kerosene heaters work well, and even hot water bottles (refilled
          every so often) will help cure small areas. Buy a thermometer or two so you
          can see how effective your heaters are. Epoxy takes a lot longer at low
          temperatures, even after running the heaters all night you might have to
          leave it for a week, assuming temperatures are above freezing during the
          day.

          You don't say if you're inside or out -- even a drafty shed is a lot better
          than working under a big tarp outside. Although if you want to get serious,
          hang plastic walls on the big tarp, and rent an industrial size kerosene
          heater -- these have powerful fans and sound like small jet engines. This
          is affordable for the odd weekend.

          Make sure your epoxy and hardener are at the recommended temperature, and
          preheat the pieces to be glued or covered. Wetting out glass cloth is
          awkward, to say the least -- start with small jobs to see if you really want
          to do it.

          My epoxy (Cold Cure) cured okay down to nearly freezing, with no discernible
          blush or other problem.

          The shop notes on the CLC website give some good hints -- I forget the
          details, but thought they were good when I read them.

          Good luck,

          Jamie Orr

          -----Original Message-----
          From: randall robar [mailto:rrobar@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:16 AM
          To: bolger@egroups.com
          Subject: [bolger] Heating so Epoxy Cures


          Hi Gang,

          Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
          temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
          several hours to cure. So the questions are:

          (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?

          (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold (gasp!)
          until spring?

          Thanks,
          randy
          grounded and cold in boston




          Bolger rules!!!
          - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
          - no flogging dead horses
          - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          - stay on topic and punctuate
          - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        • Lincoln Ross
          I d be real careful with any heater where part of the heater got warm enough to ignite anything. There are oil filled heaters that don t, but you re still
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 20, 2000
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            I'd be real careful with any heater where part of the heater got warm
            enough to ignite anything. There are oil filled heaters that don't,
            but you're still supposed to have a minimum amount of space around
            them. Make sure there is almost no chance of anything falling on the
            heater. Some model airplane guys use electric blankets (obviously with
            plastic underneath) for this purpose.
            --- In bolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
            > Hi Gang,
            >
            > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
            > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for
            > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
            >
            > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
            >
            > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
            (gasp!)
            > until spring?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > randy
            > grounded and cold in boston
          • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
            Hello Randy, I ve built a few boats(SURF,ELVER,MICRO,to name a few)up here in Montreal and have done so outdoors,in a polytarp shed,in winter.The best epoxy I
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 21, 2000
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              Hello Randy,
              I've built a few boats(SURF,ELVER,MICRO,to name a few)up here in
              Montreal and have done so outdoors,in a polytarp shed,in winter.The
              best epoxy I have yet to find for cold weather operations is COLD-
              CURE EPOXY from SYSTEM THREE EPOXY(they bought out INDUSTRIAL
              FORMULATORS of CANADA last year).My method is as follows:keep your
              epoxy in buckets of hot water,have a couple of 100 watt lightbulbs
              shining on your work area(you can also use heat lamps),try and store
              your wood in a heated area prior to bringing it out to the"shop".As
              long as the inside temperature does not drop bellow 0C /32F things
              will be fine.To heat the inside of my"shop",I used a combination of
              kerosene heater and electric base board.The kerosene heater would be
              started up first to chase away the cold while I would keep busy
              indoors.After 20 minites or so,the temperature would be above
              freezing and I would then use only the base board heater while
              working in the "shop" to keep things from freezing.Keeping the
              ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright helps speed up
              the heating process as does a bunch of snow piled up high and all
              around the "shop"to insulate the place.On bright sunny days you
              almost experience something of a greenhouse effect.Not that gardening
              crosses ones mind when it is -23C(however happy that thought may be)
              but it does allow you to use the kerosene heater less.Of course,you
              must make yourself aware of all the big bad dangers associated
              with;heat,chemicals and CO2.
              Anyway,that's my little story of encouragement for you.Surely
              Bostons' winters are a wee bit milder then the stuff us Pinkos to the
              North of you experience!
              Sincerely,

              Peter Lenihan,longing to see palm trees sprouting,once
              the "Greenhouse"effect kicks into full gear,on the shores of the
              St.Lawrence...............


              --- In bolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
              > Hi Gang,
              >
              > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
              > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
              for
              > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
              >
              > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
              >
              > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
              (gasp!)
              > until spring?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > randy
              > grounded and cold in boston
            • Leo W. Foltz
              Peter, ... ventilating the shop can be a problem. I became Epoxy sensitized in exactly that situation! Leo Duesseldorf, Germany 9° Celsius
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 21, 2000
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                Peter,

                >Keeping the ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright helps
                >speed up the heating process

                ventilating the shop can be a problem. I became Epoxy sensitized in exactly
                that situation!

                Leo
                Duesseldorf, Germany 9° Celsius
              • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
                Hi Leo, Very good point!That is why I mentioned how each must make themselves aware of the dangers of working with heat,chemicals and CO2 . 9 degrees
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 21, 2000
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                  Hi Leo,
                  Very good point!That is why I mentioned how each must make
                  themselves aware of the dangers of working with"heat,chemicals and
                  CO2".
                  9 degrees Celsius?Sounds almost warm!;-)
                  Peter


                  --- In bolger@egroups.com, "Leo W. Foltz" <leo@l...> wrote:
                  > Peter,
                  >
                  > >Keeping the ceiling of the "shop" low enough to just stand upright
                  helps
                  > >speed up the heating process
                  >
                  > ventilating the shop can be a problem. I became Epoxy sensitized in
                  exactly
                  > that situation!
                  >
                  > Leo
                  > Duesseldorf, Germany 9° Celsius
                • Gregg Shadduck
                  Randy, I am an infrequent contributor here. But when I read your Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for several hours to cure I was reminded of my bitter
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 21, 2000
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                    Randy, I am an infrequent contributor here. But when I read your
                    "Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F. for several hours to
                    cure" I was reminded of my bitter lessons working outdoors in
                    Minnesota. That is that epoxy will harden or cure or set up or
                    whatever you want to call it at low temps. And I kept using it
                    around 50+ degrees. I found, however, that epoxy didn't saturate,
                    soak, bond, penetrate, flow... all the important working and
                    structural characteristics in composite construction. I had to
                    tear apart some fairly big assemblies due to my overconfidence,
                    haste... what-not.

                    Good luck to you! (Test as you go?)

                    Gregg
                  • Peter Vanderwaart
                    ... Even though it cures, it may not develop as much strength as it would at the proper temperature. PHV
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 21, 2000
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                      > That is that epoxy will harden or cure or set up or
                      > whatever you want to call it at low temps.

                      Even though it cures, it may not develop as much strength as it would
                      at the proper temperature.

                      PHV
                    • Paul & Erna van der Merwe
                      Hi, Just make sure you have enough ventilation and wear respirator and protective covering. Just read an article on the health issues of the New Zealand
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 22, 2000
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                        Hi,
                        Just make sure you have enough ventilation and wear respirator and
                        protective covering. Just read an article on the health issues of the New
                        Zealand boatbuilding industry. It is quite scary. Athma from wood and resin
                        dust, dermatitis from resins, tremors and personality changes as symptoms
                        from chemical poisoning. Some individuals developed these tremors and
                        personality changes from exposure to epoxy resins, which I thought were OK.
                        It seemed none of the manufacturers believe them, but the symptoms is
                        consistent with chemical poisoning. Here in NZ the saying is that boat
                        builders don't get old. 8 - 10 years and their health packs up. Rather be
                        prudent with lots of protective measures, perhaps a positive airflow mask
                        when working under tarps in the cold. No use offering up one's health to
                        have the boat of your dreams and then not able to enjoy it for a long time.
                        Just my 2 cents.
                        regards
                        Paul - NZ - where it is suppose to be summer, but its 8 degC, raining and
                        20kt winds.

                        Bolger rules!!!
                        - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                        - no flogging dead horses
                        - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        - stay on topic and punctuate
                        - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                      • Tom Etherington
                        While epoxy won t cure below a certain temperature, getting below that temperature doesn t mean it will never cure. As soon as the temperature goes up, it
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 22, 2000
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                          While epoxy won't cure below a certain temperature, getting below
                          that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
                          temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
                          epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
                          A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
                          has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
                          manual where there is a good discussion of this.

                          I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
                          weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
                          daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
                          some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
                          stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
                          long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)

                          Tom Etherington

                          --- In bolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
                          > Hi Gang,
                          >
                          > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
                          > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
                          for
                          > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
                          >
                          > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
                          >
                          > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
                          (gasp!)
                          > until spring?
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > randy
                          > grounded and cold in boston
                        • Clyde S. Wisner
                          I have found that it provides plenty of time for it to run and puddle before it kicks off. So you may want to look at the level and position of the work as I
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 24, 2000
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                            I have found that it provides plenty of time for it to run and puddle before
                            it kicks off. So you may want to look at the level and position of the work
                            as I can attest to the problem when it inadvertently runs into your trailer
                            hitch. Clyde

                            Tom Etherington wrote:

                            > While epoxy won't cure below a certain temperature, getting below
                            > that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
                            > temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
                            > epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
                            > A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
                            > has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
                            > manual where there is a good discussion of this.
                            >
                            > I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
                            > weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
                            > daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
                            > some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
                            > stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
                            > long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)
                            >
                            > Tom Etherington
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
                            > > Hi Gang,
                            > >
                            > > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
                            > > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
                            > for
                            > > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
                            > >
                            > > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
                            > >
                            > > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
                            > (gasp!)
                            > > until spring?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > > randy
                            > > grounded and cold in boston
                            >
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                            > - no flogging dead horses
                            > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                            > - stay on topic and punctuate
                            > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                          • Jim Chamberlin RCSIS
                            Just finished re-reading the System Three booklet. They offer a hardner that cures down to 35 degrees F. I ve not used it yet, but curing under 55 degrees is
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 26, 2000
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                              Just finished re-reading the System Three booklet. They offer a hardner
                              that cures down to 35 degrees F. I've not used it yet, but curing under 55
                              degrees is a challenge with their #2 Hardner.
                              Jim

                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Clyde S. Wisner [mailto:clydewis@...]
                              > Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:24 AM
                              > To: bolger@egroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Heating so Epoxy Cures
                              >
                              >
                              > I have found that it provides plenty of time for it to run and
                              > puddle before
                              > it kicks off. So you may want to look at the level and position
                              > of the work
                              > as I can attest to the problem when it inadvertently runs into
                              > your trailer
                              > hitch. Clyde
                              >
                              > Tom Etherington wrote:
                              >
                              > > While epoxy won't cure below a certain temperature, getting below
                              > > that temperature doesn't mean it will never cure. As soon as the
                              > > temperature goes up, it will resume it's cure. In fact, "set up"
                              > > epoxy continues to cure for maybe months after we consider it cured.
                              > > A really hot day may even enhance it's cure a little even after it
                              > > has been "cured" for months. Get a copy of the System Three Epoxy
                              > > manual where there is a good discussion of this.
                              > >
                              > > I worked on my Micro outside last winter in New Jersey. In cold
                              > > weather the nighttime temperatures were below freezing, but the
                              > > daytime temperatures were in the 40's Fahrenheit. It took a week for
                              > > some of the stuff to cure, but the cold only slowed it up, it didn't
                              > > stop it from ever curing. (Cold weather does mean you have a very
                              > > long time to work with the stuff before it kicks off.)
                              > >
                              > > Tom Etherington
                              > >
                              > > --- In bolger@egroups.com, "randall robar" <rrobar@s...> wrote:
                              > > > Hi Gang,
                              > > >
                              > > > Just as I'm ready to go 3D with Micro winter has arrived and the
                              > > > temperature has dropped. Epoxy, of course, needs 40+ degress F.
                              > > for
                              > > > several hours to cure. So the questions are:
                              > > >
                              > > > (1) Is a small electric heater with a tarp over the boat SAFE?
                              > > >
                              > > > (2) Has anyone done #1 or did you just put everything on hold
                              > > (gasp!)
                              > > > until spring?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks,
                              > > > randy
                              > > > grounded and cold in boston
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Bolger rules!!!
                              > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                              > > - no flogging dead horses
                              > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                              > > - stay on topic and punctuate
                              > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Bolger rules!!!
                              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                              > - no flogging dead horses
                              > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                              > - stay on topic and punctuate
                              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                              >
                              >
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