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Re: [bolger] Re: Micro keel/Navigator rig

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  • Don H. Reed
    I hope so, Paul. By the time I nail that puppy with ring-shanks, she should hold together. I originally planned for one inch nails...now the plan is 1.5
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
      I hope so, Paul. By the time I nail that puppy with ring-shanks, she should
      hold together. I originally planned for one inch nails...now the plan is
      1.5" ...I'm staying rigidly flexible.

      Don
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr. <paul@...>
      To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:29 AM
      Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Micro keel/Navigator rig


      >Thanks, Don....... So is your 'baklava' keel going to work out, with the
      >epoxy 'syrup' poured over it? I'd love to pour my own keel, I'm kind of a
      >compulsive do-it-yourselfer; but I worry about the fumes, etc...... I've
      got
      >an electrician friend who has a plumber's burner designed to melt lead, so
      I
      >would just need to buy a lot of gas..... but it still intimates me some.
      >Dave Jost posted the name of the foundry he got his Micro keel poured at,
      >it's very close by, and the price wasn't too bad, so that may be the one
      >aspect of my micro that I hire out..... we'll see how the winter
      progresses.
      >At this point the whole project still only exists in my head, but I think
      >once I have all these pesky 'how-to' details ironed out in my head I'll be
      >diving in pretty quick.
      >
      >Peter, you did a deadwood keel, with the lead through-bolted rather than
      the
      >hollow plywood box keel section...... I remember a long time about you
      >saying something about having had to compensate for the flotation added by
      >this extra wood versus the would-be free-flooding hollow keel. So your lead
      >must be heavier overall to compensate for the extra flotation of the
      >timbers, and wider since there isn't 1/4" of plywood sandwiched around it,
      >correct? I'd be interested in knowing how you calculated the weight
      >compensation, fore-aft distribution, etc. around those notches to fit the
      >deadwood - would you be willing to share your alternate keel pattern, info
      >on the barrier coat used, structural considerations to receive the bolts,
      >etc? Whether or not I cast my own keel, I will probably want to go with the
      >more stout timber keel for many of the same reasons you once mentioned in
      >this forum. Also, aside from building it for its own sake, the Micro is
      >practice for eventually building a much larger liveaboard boat (hopefully!
      >Otherwise I'll at least have a Micro to cruise around in!) which will also
      >probably have a laminated deadwood keel, so I may as well learn how on a
      >much smaller scale. I've built 4 strip canoes and kayaks, so while I'm
      >confident I can build a keeled plywood boat, it is still new territory for
      >me. Your pictures on Duckworks are excellent, by the way! Thanks for taking
      >the time to put that story together for us.
      >
      >I just ordered '103 rigs' yesterday; I understand the Micro plans now come
      >with the Navigator upgrade so I'm considering the Navigator 'chinese gaff'
      >sail, though I'll stick with the standard cuddy. I've long been a junkie in
      >my boat fantasies and subscribe to the junk rig list as well as this one,
      so
      >I'd like to try out that rig on the Micro with an eye toward gaining
      >experience with the rig for my big dream boat. But since I plan to trailer
      >my micro, this may determine which rig I ultimately use; if the gaffer
      looks
      >too complicated to set up and take down each time, I'll go with the
      standard
      >rig for simplicity. I know I'll go out more often if I don't have to spend
      >too long at the ramp swatting mosquitoes while I rig the boat. Of course if
      >the mast is shorter on the gaffer (which PCB alludes to in the MAIB
      >article), it might make for easier trailering. Hell, maybe I can even leave
      >the mast up with the sail furled on deck if I'm just running back and forth
      >to the ramp down the street! I'll have to check the powerlines enroute, but
      >I've seen some awfully big trucks make it down my street.
      >
      >Does anyone know if PCB offers Long Micro plans with the chinese gaff rig?
      I
      >guess with the book in hand I could probably figure it out for myself,
      >knowing that rig already has his blessings for this boat, but it'd be nice
      >if it came in the plans! Only reason I haven't sent in my check yet is cuz
      I
      >still may go for the Long.........
      >
      >Thanks, all, for sharing your Micro expertise! You've kept my enthusiasm
      >high, and I'm hoping to join the fraternity very soon.....
      >
      >Paul Lefebvre
      >looking for something productive to do through a long Cape Cod winter.....
      >
      >
      >
      >Bolger rules!!!
      >- no cursing
      >- stay on topic
      >- use punctuation
      >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
      >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
      >
      >
    • Peter Vanderwaart
      At least one Micro builder subcontracted the lead ballast to a professional. Another did some research with the people who provide lead shielding for dentists
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
        At least one Micro builder subcontracted the lead ballast to a
        professional.

        Another did some research with the people who provide lead shielding
        for dentists offices, hospitals and other places who use x-rays. The
        were willing to pour a slab of the desired thickness out of which the
        desired shape could be cut. They would buy back the excess lead.

        So, there are many ways to ballast a cat-yawl.

        PHV


        --- In bolger@egroups.com, "Don H. Reed" <donhreed@m...> wrote:
        > Pheww!!!!
        > Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That's a shot in the
        arm. 'Cause I
        > was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build
        around my
        > keel-mess...you've pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the
        subject. Point
        > is--to be out on the blue enjoying rather than wringing my hands in
        worry
        > about "keel envy", or worse, keel fall off. Yikes!
        >
        > Even if it does, (fall off), @ $0.15 per lbs. for scrap
        lead...it'll be back
        > to the drawing board for sure. Now that's an Idea! Why hasn't one
        of the
        > faithful gone into the mass produced, Micro-keel business? [It's a
        > rhetorical question] ;-)
        >
        > Thanks for the help.
        >
        > Don
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Peter Vanderwaart <pvanderw@o...>
        > To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
        > Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:09 AM
        > Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro keel
        >
        >
        > >> clogged up. Molten lead splashed and hardened immediately--
        > >blocking
        > >> feeder hole.
        > >
        > >Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include
        > >the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet
        > >pipe to re-melt the plug that forms there.
        > >
        > >I don't think that the Micro design relies on any strength from the
        > >lead keel. If you get the keel properly built around the lead, you
        > >should be fine.
        > >
        > >Peter
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Bolger rules!!!
        > >- no cursing
        > >- stay on topic
        > >- use punctuation
        > >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        > >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
        > >
        > >
      • Jim Goeckermann
        The list has cycled through keel casting before, but since there are some new builders it might be worth repeating the following: Lead can be melted on the
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
          The list has cycled through keel casting before, but since there are some new
          builders it might be worth repeating the following:
          Lead can be melted on the kitchen stove (not suggested) or its equivalent - it
          only takes around 750 degrees F. The fumes are toxic, and the arsenic usually
          found in the melt is a concern. Normal free-flowing ventilation will take care
          of this.
          Any (Really, ANY - even a teaspoon!) water can be disasterous. A dripping tin
          roof, a dipper with a few drops of water, or wet wheelweights added to the melt
          can blow the melt right out of the pot and all over you. Thick gloves, good
          boots, layered (non-synthetic) clothing is called for. Eye protection is a must.

          BUT, it is really not that hard to do, and the lead can be sawed (even planed)
          once cast, and since the Micro puts it all in a box, it is OK to have a flawed
          casting. A half a dozen borrowed Coleman stoves and a few garage sale cast iron
          pots will get you in the backyard foundary business. Anyone who has never
          skimmed pieces of steel that are floating on a shiny pool of lead is missing a
          thrill. Furthermore, you may know an expert - any friends who cast bullets or
          fishing weights? Drift boat anchors?
          If the lead is really that much of a block to your building, think about a steel
          piece from a metal salvage yard. They are reasonable, sell by the pound, and
          will cut to order.
          Lastly,( though I have cast a lot of lead - but never a keel) consider doing
          your cast into a 3 sided box. If it is level, you don't need a top! Disclaimer
          - I haven't done it, but I know that the lead finds level all by itself.
          Jim
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