Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [bolger] Re: Micro keel

Expand Messages
  • Don H. Reed
    Pheww!!!! Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That s a shot in the arm. Cause I was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build around my
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Pheww!!!!
      Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That's a shot in the arm. 'Cause I
      was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build around my
      keel-mess...you've pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the subject. Point
      is--to be out on the blue enjoying rather than wringing my hands in worry
      about "keel envy", or worse, keel fall off. Yikes!

      Even if it does, (fall off), @ $0.15 per lbs. for scrap lead...it'll be back
      to the drawing board for sure. Now that's an Idea! Why hasn't one of the
      faithful gone into the mass produced, Micro-keel business? [It's a
      rhetorical question] ;-)

      Thanks for the help.

      Don
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Peter Vanderwaart <pvanderw@...>
      To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:09 AM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro keel


      >> clogged up. Molten lead splashed and hardened immediately--
      >blocking
      >> feeder hole.
      >
      >Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include
      >the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet
      >pipe to re-melt the plug that forms there.
      >
      >I don't think that the Micro design relies on any strength from the
      >lead keel. If you get the keel properly built around the lead, you
      >should be fine.
      >
      >Peter
      >
      >
      >
      >Bolger rules!!!
      >- no cursing
      >- stay on topic
      >- use punctuation
      >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
      >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
      >
      >
    • Don H. Reed
      I hope so, Paul. By the time I nail that puppy with ring-shanks, she should hold together. I originally planned for one inch nails...now the plan is 1.5
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        I hope so, Paul. By the time I nail that puppy with ring-shanks, she should
        hold together. I originally planned for one inch nails...now the plan is
        1.5" ...I'm staying rigidly flexible.

        Don
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr. <paul@...>
        To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
        Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:29 AM
        Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Micro keel/Navigator rig


        >Thanks, Don....... So is your 'baklava' keel going to work out, with the
        >epoxy 'syrup' poured over it? I'd love to pour my own keel, I'm kind of a
        >compulsive do-it-yourselfer; but I worry about the fumes, etc...... I've
        got
        >an electrician friend who has a plumber's burner designed to melt lead, so
        I
        >would just need to buy a lot of gas..... but it still intimates me some.
        >Dave Jost posted the name of the foundry he got his Micro keel poured at,
        >it's very close by, and the price wasn't too bad, so that may be the one
        >aspect of my micro that I hire out..... we'll see how the winter
        progresses.
        >At this point the whole project still only exists in my head, but I think
        >once I have all these pesky 'how-to' details ironed out in my head I'll be
        >diving in pretty quick.
        >
        >Peter, you did a deadwood keel, with the lead through-bolted rather than
        the
        >hollow plywood box keel section...... I remember a long time about you
        >saying something about having had to compensate for the flotation added by
        >this extra wood versus the would-be free-flooding hollow keel. So your lead
        >must be heavier overall to compensate for the extra flotation of the
        >timbers, and wider since there isn't 1/4" of plywood sandwiched around it,
        >correct? I'd be interested in knowing how you calculated the weight
        >compensation, fore-aft distribution, etc. around those notches to fit the
        >deadwood - would you be willing to share your alternate keel pattern, info
        >on the barrier coat used, structural considerations to receive the bolts,
        >etc? Whether or not I cast my own keel, I will probably want to go with the
        >more stout timber keel for many of the same reasons you once mentioned in
        >this forum. Also, aside from building it for its own sake, the Micro is
        >practice for eventually building a much larger liveaboard boat (hopefully!
        >Otherwise I'll at least have a Micro to cruise around in!) which will also
        >probably have a laminated deadwood keel, so I may as well learn how on a
        >much smaller scale. I've built 4 strip canoes and kayaks, so while I'm
        >confident I can build a keeled plywood boat, it is still new territory for
        >me. Your pictures on Duckworks are excellent, by the way! Thanks for taking
        >the time to put that story together for us.
        >
        >I just ordered '103 rigs' yesterday; I understand the Micro plans now come
        >with the Navigator upgrade so I'm considering the Navigator 'chinese gaff'
        >sail, though I'll stick with the standard cuddy. I've long been a junkie in
        >my boat fantasies and subscribe to the junk rig list as well as this one,
        so
        >I'd like to try out that rig on the Micro with an eye toward gaining
        >experience with the rig for my big dream boat. But since I plan to trailer
        >my micro, this may determine which rig I ultimately use; if the gaffer
        looks
        >too complicated to set up and take down each time, I'll go with the
        standard
        >rig for simplicity. I know I'll go out more often if I don't have to spend
        >too long at the ramp swatting mosquitoes while I rig the boat. Of course if
        >the mast is shorter on the gaffer (which PCB alludes to in the MAIB
        >article), it might make for easier trailering. Hell, maybe I can even leave
        >the mast up with the sail furled on deck if I'm just running back and forth
        >to the ramp down the street! I'll have to check the powerlines enroute, but
        >I've seen some awfully big trucks make it down my street.
        >
        >Does anyone know if PCB offers Long Micro plans with the chinese gaff rig?
        I
        >guess with the book in hand I could probably figure it out for myself,
        >knowing that rig already has his blessings for this boat, but it'd be nice
        >if it came in the plans! Only reason I haven't sent in my check yet is cuz
        I
        >still may go for the Long.........
        >
        >Thanks, all, for sharing your Micro expertise! You've kept my enthusiasm
        >high, and I'm hoping to join the fraternity very soon.....
        >
        >Paul Lefebvre
        >looking for something productive to do through a long Cape Cod winter.....
        >
        >
        >
        >Bolger rules!!!
        >- no cursing
        >- stay on topic
        >- use punctuation
        >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
        >
        >
      • Peter Vanderwaart
        At least one Micro builder subcontracted the lead ballast to a professional. Another did some research with the people who provide lead shielding for dentists
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          At least one Micro builder subcontracted the lead ballast to a
          professional.

          Another did some research with the people who provide lead shielding
          for dentists offices, hospitals and other places who use x-rays. The
          were willing to pour a slab of the desired thickness out of which the
          desired shape could be cut. They would buy back the excess lead.

          So, there are many ways to ballast a cat-yawl.

          PHV


          --- In bolger@egroups.com, "Don H. Reed" <donhreed@m...> wrote:
          > Pheww!!!!
          > Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That's a shot in the
          arm. 'Cause I
          > was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build
          around my
          > keel-mess...you've pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the
          subject. Point
          > is--to be out on the blue enjoying rather than wringing my hands in
          worry
          > about "keel envy", or worse, keel fall off. Yikes!
          >
          > Even if it does, (fall off), @ $0.15 per lbs. for scrap
          lead...it'll be back
          > to the drawing board for sure. Now that's an Idea! Why hasn't one
          of the
          > faithful gone into the mass produced, Micro-keel business? [It's a
          > rhetorical question] ;-)
          >
          > Thanks for the help.
          >
          > Don
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Peter Vanderwaart <pvanderw@o...>
          > To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
          > Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:09 AM
          > Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro keel
          >
          >
          > >> clogged up. Molten lead splashed and hardened immediately--
          > >blocking
          > >> feeder hole.
          > >
          > >Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include
          > >the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet
          > >pipe to re-melt the plug that forms there.
          > >
          > >I don't think that the Micro design relies on any strength from the
          > >lead keel. If you get the keel properly built around the lead, you
          > >should be fine.
          > >
          > >Peter
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Bolger rules!!!
          > >- no cursing
          > >- stay on topic
          > >- use punctuation
          > >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
          > >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          > >
          > >
        • Jim Goeckermann
          The list has cycled through keel casting before, but since there are some new builders it might be worth repeating the following: Lead can be melted on the
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            The list has cycled through keel casting before, but since there are some new
            builders it might be worth repeating the following:
            Lead can be melted on the kitchen stove (not suggested) or its equivalent - it
            only takes around 750 degrees F. The fumes are toxic, and the arsenic usually
            found in the melt is a concern. Normal free-flowing ventilation will take care
            of this.
            Any (Really, ANY - even a teaspoon!) water can be disasterous. A dripping tin
            roof, a dipper with a few drops of water, or wet wheelweights added to the melt
            can blow the melt right out of the pot and all over you. Thick gloves, good
            boots, layered (non-synthetic) clothing is called for. Eye protection is a must.

            BUT, it is really not that hard to do, and the lead can be sawed (even planed)
            once cast, and since the Micro puts it all in a box, it is OK to have a flawed
            casting. A half a dozen borrowed Coleman stoves and a few garage sale cast iron
            pots will get you in the backyard foundary business. Anyone who has never
            skimmed pieces of steel that are floating on a shiny pool of lead is missing a
            thrill. Furthermore, you may know an expert - any friends who cast bullets or
            fishing weights? Drift boat anchors?
            If the lead is really that much of a block to your building, think about a steel
            piece from a metal salvage yard. They are reasonable, sell by the pound, and
            will cut to order.
            Lastly,( though I have cast a lot of lead - but never a keel) consider doing
            your cast into a 3 sided box. If it is level, you don't need a top! Disclaimer
            - I haven't done it, but I know that the lead finds level all by itself.
            Jim
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.