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Re: Micro keel

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  • Peter Vanderwaart
    ... blocking ... Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet pipe to
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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      > clogged up. Molten lead splashed and hardened immediately--
      blocking
      > feeder hole.

      Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include
      the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet
      pipe to re-melt the plug that forms there.

      I don't think that the Micro design relies on any strength from the
      lead keel. If you get the keel properly built around the lead, you
      should be fine.

      Peter
    • Don H. Reed
      Pheww!!!! Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That s a shot in the arm. Cause I was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build around my
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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        Pheww!!!!
        Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That's a shot in the arm. 'Cause I
        was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build around my
        keel-mess...you've pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the subject. Point
        is--to be out on the blue enjoying rather than wringing my hands in worry
        about "keel envy", or worse, keel fall off. Yikes!

        Even if it does, (fall off), @ $0.15 per lbs. for scrap lead...it'll be back
        to the drawing board for sure. Now that's an Idea! Why hasn't one of the
        faithful gone into the mass produced, Micro-keel business? [It's a
        rhetorical question] ;-)

        Thanks for the help.

        Don
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Peter Vanderwaart <pvanderw@...>
        To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
        Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:09 AM
        Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro keel


        >> clogged up. Molten lead splashed and hardened immediately--
        >blocking
        >> feeder hole.
        >
        >Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include
        >the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet
        >pipe to re-melt the plug that forms there.
        >
        >I don't think that the Micro design relies on any strength from the
        >lead keel. If you get the keel properly built around the lead, you
        >should be fine.
        >
        >Peter
        >
        >
        >
        >Bolger rules!!!
        >- no cursing
        >- stay on topic
        >- use punctuation
        >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
        >
        >
      • Don H. Reed
        I hope so, Paul. By the time I nail that puppy with ring-shanks, she should hold together. I originally planned for one inch nails...now the plan is 1.5
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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          I hope so, Paul. By the time I nail that puppy with ring-shanks, she should
          hold together. I originally planned for one inch nails...now the plan is
          1.5" ...I'm staying rigidly flexible.

          Don
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Paul A. Lefebvre, Jr. <paul@...>
          To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
          Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:29 AM
          Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Micro keel/Navigator rig


          >Thanks, Don....... So is your 'baklava' keel going to work out, with the
          >epoxy 'syrup' poured over it? I'd love to pour my own keel, I'm kind of a
          >compulsive do-it-yourselfer; but I worry about the fumes, etc...... I've
          got
          >an electrician friend who has a plumber's burner designed to melt lead, so
          I
          >would just need to buy a lot of gas..... but it still intimates me some.
          >Dave Jost posted the name of the foundry he got his Micro keel poured at,
          >it's very close by, and the price wasn't too bad, so that may be the one
          >aspect of my micro that I hire out..... we'll see how the winter
          progresses.
          >At this point the whole project still only exists in my head, but I think
          >once I have all these pesky 'how-to' details ironed out in my head I'll be
          >diving in pretty quick.
          >
          >Peter, you did a deadwood keel, with the lead through-bolted rather than
          the
          >hollow plywood box keel section...... I remember a long time about you
          >saying something about having had to compensate for the flotation added by
          >this extra wood versus the would-be free-flooding hollow keel. So your lead
          >must be heavier overall to compensate for the extra flotation of the
          >timbers, and wider since there isn't 1/4" of plywood sandwiched around it,
          >correct? I'd be interested in knowing how you calculated the weight
          >compensation, fore-aft distribution, etc. around those notches to fit the
          >deadwood - would you be willing to share your alternate keel pattern, info
          >on the barrier coat used, structural considerations to receive the bolts,
          >etc? Whether or not I cast my own keel, I will probably want to go with the
          >more stout timber keel for many of the same reasons you once mentioned in
          >this forum. Also, aside from building it for its own sake, the Micro is
          >practice for eventually building a much larger liveaboard boat (hopefully!
          >Otherwise I'll at least have a Micro to cruise around in!) which will also
          >probably have a laminated deadwood keel, so I may as well learn how on a
          >much smaller scale. I've built 4 strip canoes and kayaks, so while I'm
          >confident I can build a keeled plywood boat, it is still new territory for
          >me. Your pictures on Duckworks are excellent, by the way! Thanks for taking
          >the time to put that story together for us.
          >
          >I just ordered '103 rigs' yesterday; I understand the Micro plans now come
          >with the Navigator upgrade so I'm considering the Navigator 'chinese gaff'
          >sail, though I'll stick with the standard cuddy. I've long been a junkie in
          >my boat fantasies and subscribe to the junk rig list as well as this one,
          so
          >I'd like to try out that rig on the Micro with an eye toward gaining
          >experience with the rig for my big dream boat. But since I plan to trailer
          >my micro, this may determine which rig I ultimately use; if the gaffer
          looks
          >too complicated to set up and take down each time, I'll go with the
          standard
          >rig for simplicity. I know I'll go out more often if I don't have to spend
          >too long at the ramp swatting mosquitoes while I rig the boat. Of course if
          >the mast is shorter on the gaffer (which PCB alludes to in the MAIB
          >article), it might make for easier trailering. Hell, maybe I can even leave
          >the mast up with the sail furled on deck if I'm just running back and forth
          >to the ramp down the street! I'll have to check the powerlines enroute, but
          >I've seen some awfully big trucks make it down my street.
          >
          >Does anyone know if PCB offers Long Micro plans with the chinese gaff rig?
          I
          >guess with the book in hand I could probably figure it out for myself,
          >knowing that rig already has his blessings for this boat, but it'd be nice
          >if it came in the plans! Only reason I haven't sent in my check yet is cuz
          I
          >still may go for the Long.........
          >
          >Thanks, all, for sharing your Micro expertise! You've kept my enthusiasm
          >high, and I'm hoping to join the fraternity very soon.....
          >
          >Paul Lefebvre
          >looking for something productive to do through a long Cape Cod winter.....
          >
          >
          >
          >Bolger rules!!!
          >- no cursing
          >- stay on topic
          >- use punctuation
          >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
          >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
          >
          >
        • Peter Vanderwaart
          At least one Micro builder subcontracted the lead ballast to a professional. Another did some research with the people who provide lead shielding for dentists
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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            At least one Micro builder subcontracted the lead ballast to a
            professional.

            Another did some research with the people who provide lead shielding
            for dentists offices, hospitals and other places who use x-rays. The
            were willing to pour a slab of the desired thickness out of which the
            desired shape could be cut. They would buy back the excess lead.

            So, there are many ways to ballast a cat-yawl.

            PHV


            --- In bolger@egroups.com, "Don H. Reed" <donhreed@m...> wrote:
            > Pheww!!!!
            > Gosh, Peter, thanks for saying that...That's a shot in the
            arm. 'Cause I
            > was beginning to worry. I thought I could sneak by and build
            around my
            > keel-mess...you've pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the
            subject. Point
            > is--to be out on the blue enjoying rather than wringing my hands in
            worry
            > about "keel envy", or worse, keel fall off. Yikes!
            >
            > Even if it does, (fall off), @ $0.15 per lbs. for scrap
            lead...it'll be back
            > to the drawing board for sure. Now that's an Idea! Why hasn't one
            of the
            > faithful gone into the mass produced, Micro-keel business? [It's a
            > rhetorical question] ;-)
            >
            > Thanks for the help.
            >
            > Don
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Peter Vanderwaart <pvanderw@o...>
            > To: bolger@egroups.com <bolger@egroups.com>
            > Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 11:09 AM
            > Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro keel
            >
            >
            > >> clogged up. Molten lead splashed and hardened immediately--
            > >blocking
            > >> feeder hole.
            > >
            > >Up to now, all the stories I have read about pouring keels include
            > >the part where the hero takes a propane torch and heats the outlet
            > >pipe to re-melt the plug that forms there.
            > >
            > >I don't think that the Micro design relies on any strength from the
            > >lead keel. If you get the keel properly built around the lead, you
            > >should be fine.
            > >
            > >Peter
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Bolger rules!!!
            > >- no cursing
            > >- stay on topic
            > >- use punctuation
            > >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
            > >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
            > >
            > >
          • Jim Goeckermann
            The list has cycled through keel casting before, but since there are some new builders it might be worth repeating the following: Lead can be melted on the
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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              The list has cycled through keel casting before, but since there are some new
              builders it might be worth repeating the following:
              Lead can be melted on the kitchen stove (not suggested) or its equivalent - it
              only takes around 750 degrees F. The fumes are toxic, and the arsenic usually
              found in the melt is a concern. Normal free-flowing ventilation will take care
              of this.
              Any (Really, ANY - even a teaspoon!) water can be disasterous. A dripping tin
              roof, a dipper with a few drops of water, or wet wheelweights added to the melt
              can blow the melt right out of the pot and all over you. Thick gloves, good
              boots, layered (non-synthetic) clothing is called for. Eye protection is a must.

              BUT, it is really not that hard to do, and the lead can be sawed (even planed)
              once cast, and since the Micro puts it all in a box, it is OK to have a flawed
              casting. A half a dozen borrowed Coleman stoves and a few garage sale cast iron
              pots will get you in the backyard foundary business. Anyone who has never
              skimmed pieces of steel that are floating on a shiny pool of lead is missing a
              thrill. Furthermore, you may know an expert - any friends who cast bullets or
              fishing weights? Drift boat anchors?
              If the lead is really that much of a block to your building, think about a steel
              piece from a metal salvage yard. They are reasonable, sell by the pound, and
              will cut to order.
              Lastly,( though I have cast a lot of lead - but never a keel) consider doing
              your cast into a 3 sided box. If it is level, you don't need a top! Disclaimer
              - I haven't done it, but I know that the lead finds level all by itself.
              Jim
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