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Re: [bolger] Computing Displacement

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  • Derek Waters
    No math god either, I m finding hull design increasingly fascinating - definitely one of those situations where the more you learn , the more there is to learn
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 31, 2000
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      No math god either, I'm finding hull design increasingly fascinating -
      definitely one of those situations where the more you learn , the more there
      is to learn :) There are some great freeware/shareware software packages out
      there for doing the 'grunt work' calculation in basic hull design. My
      current favourite is Gregg Carlson's Chine Hull Designer (available in the
      Vault). Ten minutes typing the values from your re-design into the program
      and you can see visually the results of the changes.

      At the risk of teaching my grandmother to suck eggs; a couple of words of
      caution - when you modify a hull design by differing proportions (as opposed
      to simply scaling all the dimensions up or down by a uniform percentage) the
      resultant hull will not behave in the same way as the original. The 600lb
      quoted is of course a maximum load, and not the displacement at the
      waterline shown on the plans.

      See http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/redesign.htm#start :)

      Cheers
      Derek
    • David Ryan
      Chuck -- Did you learn anything from your misadventure? I hold what I do for a living in pretty high regard, and am not inclined towards underestimating just
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
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        Chuck --

        Did you learn anything from your misadventure?

        I hold what I do for a living in pretty high regard, and am not
        inclined towards underestimating just what it takes to do anything
        professionally. Still, whether it's "written, produced, and directed
        by" or "I designed it and build it myself" the lure of authorship is
        nearly irresistible.

        I've set the Chesapeake sharpie restoration up as an obstacle to any
        new, larger projects. The deal I've made with myself is I can't start
        anything bigger than the Chesapeake until she's on a float, ready to
        hoist sail.

        The idea of the LS2(3) is pretty compelling. A year or so of boat
        building, a few weeks of idyllic family camping; all for only
        $5000-$10000. Stacks up pretty nicely to a Carnival Cruise or all the
        fun the auto makers' adds promise me if I give them the money instead.

        Still, for all my enthusiasm, I am cautious. The BIG BACKYARD BOAT is
        the classic folly, and I am not so over-endowed with either leisure
        or money as to engage in such folly without at least a little
        self-searching and reflection.

        In the meantime, drawing and fantasizing is delicious, far more fun
        than watching TV

        YIBB,

        David

        >Modifying plans is tricky. It is more prudent to find an existing design
        >that suits your needs. I once built a boat that I had designed myself. It
        >was a total disaster - a big waste of time and materials. I am not saying
        >that that will be your fate, but you might take a look at Jim Michalak's
        >Jonsboat:
        >http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15jun00.htm#JONSBOAT
        >
        >Chuck
        >
        >
        >>
        >> I am new to the group and I have never built a boat. I am finding the
        >> emails interesting to say the least. I have owned several
        >> "Tupperware" and metal boats, but I want to build one of my own. I
        >> want a Punt because of the flat bottom and the squared off ends. I
        >> like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I need a larger boat.
        >> Therefore, I am considering the bastardization of a proven design. I
        >> bought the plans from "Dynamite" Payson for the Elegant Punt and I am
        >> playing with the idea of widening the beam from 37" to 46" across the
        >> bottom of the boat and lengthening the overall boat by 48".
        >> Additionally, I will probably leave the line of the shear, straight,
        >> instead of putting in the curve from the plans. I am in no way a
        >> physics or geometry major and it seems like some of you are (or should
        >> be). However, when I have made these changes to the plans and built
        >> them into models, the outcome looks like a boat I would like to fish
        >> out of on the local lakes, here, in Washington state.
        >>
        >> My concern, and or questions are whether or not increasing the width
        >> by @24% and the length by @52% will net a proportionate increase in
        >> the capacity of the boat?
        >>
        >> The displacement, according to the plans is 600 pounds. Therefore,
        >> widening the boat by 24% will increase the capacity to 744 pounds and
        >> lengthening the boat by 52% will increase the capacity to 1131 pounds?
        >>
        >> Right?????????
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Bolger rules!!!
        >> - no cursing
        >> - stay on topic
        >> - use punctuation
        >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        >> - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >Bolger rules!!!
        >- no cursing
        >- stay on topic
        >- use punctuation
        >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        >- add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.


        CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
        134 W.26th St. 12th Floor
        New York, NY 10001
        (212) 243-1636
      • Peter Vanderwaart
        ... boat. Given the very large number of designs out there for punts of different descriptions, why not keep looking. I built an Elegant Punt, and I was not
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
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          > I like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I need a larger
          boat.

          Given the very large number of designs out there for punts of
          different descriptions, why not keep looking. I built an Elegant
          Punt, and I was not especially pleased with it. It is very narrow and
          high-sided, compared with what I was used to in a yacht tender.

          If you need more capacity, have a look at the Brick.

          Peter
        • R Coy
          I spent nigh 20 yr in Washington State. Wish I were still there. Which part do you hail from? Roger ... __________________________________________________ Do
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
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            I spent nigh 20 yr in Washington State. Wish I were
            still there.
            Which part do you hail from?
            Roger


            --- pnwtexan@... wrote:
            >
            > I am new to the group and I have never built a boat.
            > I am finding the
            > emails interesting to say the least. I have owned
            > several
            > "Tupperware" and metal boats, but I want to build
            > one of my own. I
            > want a Punt because of the flat bottom and the
            > squared off ends. I
            > like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I need
            > a larger boat.
            > Therefore, I am considering the bastardization of a
            > proven design. I
            > bought the plans from "Dynamite" Payson for the
            > Elegant Punt and I am
            > playing with the idea of widening the beam from 37"
            > to 46" across the
            > bottom of the boat and lengthening the overall boat
            > by 48".
            > Additionally, I will probably leave the line of the
            > shear, straight,
            > instead of putting in the curve from the plans. I
            > am in no way a
            > physics or geometry major and it seems like some of
            > you are (or should
            > be). However, when I have made these changes to the
            > plans and built
            > them into models, the outcome looks like a boat I
            > would like to fish
            > out of on the local lakes, here, in Washington
            > state.
            >
            > My concern, and or questions are whether or not
            > increasing the width
            > by @24% and the length by @52% will net a
            > proportionate increase in
            > the capacity of the boat?
            >
            > The displacement, according to the plans is 600
            > pounds. Therefore,
            > widening the boat by 24% will increase the capacity
            > to 744 pounds and
            > lengthening the boat by 52% will increase the
            > capacity to 1131 pounds?
            >
            > Right?????????
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            __________________________________________________
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          • Richard Spelling
            Put the lines of EP into Carlson s hulls program (http://www.carlsondesign.com), stretch it, and check the displacement. Richard Spelling,
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
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              Put the lines of EP into Carlson's hulls program
              (http://www.carlsondesign.com), stretch it, and check the displacement.

              Richard Spelling, http://www.spellingbusiness.com/boats
              From the muddy waters of Oklahoma

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <pnwtexan@...>
              To: <bolger@egroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:02 PM
              Subject: [bolger] Computing Displacement


              >
              > I am new to the group and I have never built a boat. I am finding the
              > emails interesting to say the least. I have owned several
              > "Tupperware" and metal boats, but I want to build one of my own. I
              > want a Punt because of the flat bottom and the squared off ends. I
              > like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I need a larger boat.
              > Therefore, I am considering the bastardization of a proven design. I
              > bought the plans from "Dynamite" Payson for the Elegant Punt and I am
              > playing with the idea of widening the beam from 37" to 46" across the
              > bottom of the boat and lengthening the overall boat by 48".
              > Additionally, I will probably leave the line of the shear, straight,
              > instead of putting in the curve from the plans. I am in no way a
              > physics or geometry major and it seems like some of you are (or should
              > be). However, when I have made these changes to the plans and built
              > them into models, the outcome looks like a boat I would like to fish
              > out of on the local lakes, here, in Washington state.
              >
              > My concern, and or questions are whether or not increasing the width
              > by @24% and the length by @52% will net a proportionate increase in
              > the capacity of the boat?
              >
              > The displacement, according to the plans is 600 pounds. Therefore,
              > widening the boat by 24% will increase the capacity to 744 pounds and
              > lengthening the boat by 52% will increase the capacity to 1131 pounds?
              >
              > Right?????????
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing
              > - stay on topic
              > - use punctuation
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
              > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
              >
            • R Coy
              I m not sure of your total needs in your boat. B&B yachts has a nice design of 9 ft that will hold 4 adults and some gear. Check it out. B&Byat@cconnect.net
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
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                I'm not sure of your total needs in your boat. B&B
                yachts has a nice design of 9 ft that will hold 4
                adults and some gear. Check it out.
                B&Byat@...
                Roger

                --- Chuck Leinweber <chuck@...>
                wrote:
                > Modifying plans is tricky. It is more prudent to
                > find an existing design
                > that suits your needs. I once built a boat that I
                > had designed myself. It
                > was a total disaster - a big waste of time and
                > materials. I am not saying
                > that that will be your fate, but you might take a
                > look at Jim Michalak's
                > Jonsboat:
                >
                http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15jun00.htm#JONSBOAT
                >
                > Chuck
                >
                >
                > >
                > > I am new to the group and I have never built a
                > boat. I am finding the
                > > emails interesting to say the least. I have owned
                > several
                > > "Tupperware" and metal boats, but I want to build
                > one of my own. I
                > > want a Punt because of the flat bottom and the
                > squared off ends. I
                > > like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I
                > need a larger boat.
                > > Therefore, I am considering the bastardization of
                > a proven design. I
                > > bought the plans from "Dynamite" Payson for the
                > Elegant Punt and I am
                > > playing with the idea of widening the beam from
                > 37" to 46" across the
                > > bottom of the boat and lengthening the overall
                > boat by 48".
                > > Additionally, I will probably leave the line of
                > the shear, straight,
                > > instead of putting in the curve from the plans. I
                > am in no way a
                > > physics or geometry major and it seems like some
                > of you are (or should
                > > be). However, when I have made these changes to
                > the plans and built
                > > them into models, the outcome looks like a boat I
                > would like to fish
                > > out of on the local lakes, here, in Washington
                > state.
                > >
                > > My concern, and or questions are whether or not
                > increasing the width
                > > by @24% and the length by @52% will net a
                > proportionate increase in
                > > the capacity of the boat?
                > >
                > > The displacement, according to the plans is 600
                > pounds. Therefore,
                > > widening the boat by 24% will increase the
                > capacity to 744 pounds and
                > > lengthening the boat by 52% will increase the
                > capacity to 1131 pounds?
                > >
                > > Right?????????
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Bolger rules!!!
                > > - no cursing
                > > - stay on topic
                > > - use punctuation
                > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                > > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!"
                > posts off-list.
                > >
                > >
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
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                From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
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              • freedem@excite.com
                Mr Bolger s designs are very well thought out as boats and also as to usage of wood ( Little waste) perhapse if you were to study some other designs of Mr
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
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                  Mr Bolger's designs are very well thought out as boats and also as to
                  usage of wood ( Little waste) perhapse if you were to study some
                  other designs of Mr Bolger another design might be closer to your
                  needs I built a surf and she is still the prettyest small boat to my
                  eye
                  Jeffery

                  --- In bolger@egroups.com, pnwtexan@h... wrote:
                  >
                  > I am new to the group and I have never built a boat. I am finding
                  the
                  > emails interesting to say the least. I have owned several
                  > "Tupperware" and metal boats, but I want to build one of my own. I
                  > want a Punt because of the flat bottom and the squared off ends. I
                  > like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I need a larger boat.
                  > Therefore, I am considering the bastardization of a proven design.
                  I
                  > bought the plans from "Dynamite" Payson for the Elegant Punt and I
                  am
                  > playing with the idea of widening the beam from 37" to 46" across
                  the
                  > bottom of the boat and lengthening the overall boat by 48".
                  > Additionally, I will probably leave the line of the shear, straight,
                  > instead of putting in the curve from the plans. I am in no way a
                  > physics or geometry major and it seems like some of you are (or
                  should
                  > be). However, when I have made these changes to the plans and built
                  > them into models, the outcome looks like a boat I would like to fish
                  > out of on the local lakes, here, in Washington state.
                  >
                  > My concern, and or questions are whether or not increasing the width
                  > by @24% and the length by @52% will net a proportionate increase in
                  > the capacity of the boat?
                  >
                  > The displacement, according to the plans is 600 pounds. Therefore,
                  > widening the boat by 24% will increase the capacity to 744 pounds
                  and
                  > lengthening the boat by 52% will increase the capacity to 1131
                  pounds?
                  >
                  > Rig
                • Chuck Leinweber
                  Modifying plans is tricky. It is more prudent to find an existing design that suits your needs. I once built a boat that I had designed myself. It was a
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 1, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Modifying plans is tricky. It is more prudent to find an existing design
                    that suits your needs. I once built a boat that I had designed myself. It
                    was a total disaster - a big waste of time and materials. I am not saying
                    that that will be your fate, but you might take a look at Jim Michalak's
                    Jonsboat:
                    http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15jun00.htm#JONSBOAT

                    Chuck


                    >
                    > I am new to the group and I have never built a boat. I am finding the
                    > emails interesting to say the least. I have owned several
                    > "Tupperware" and metal boats, but I want to build one of my own. I
                    > want a Punt because of the flat bottom and the squared off ends. I
                    > like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt, but I need a larger boat.
                    > Therefore, I am considering the bastardization of a proven design. I
                    > bought the plans from "Dynamite" Payson for the Elegant Punt and I am
                    > playing with the idea of widening the beam from 37" to 46" across the
                    > bottom of the boat and lengthening the overall boat by 48".
                    > Additionally, I will probably leave the line of the shear, straight,
                    > instead of putting in the curve from the plans. I am in no way a
                    > physics or geometry major and it seems like some of you are (or should
                    > be). However, when I have made these changes to the plans and built
                    > them into models, the outcome looks like a boat I would like to fish
                    > out of on the local lakes, here, in Washington state.
                    >
                    > My concern, and or questions are whether or not increasing the width
                    > by @24% and the length by @52% will net a proportionate increase in
                    > the capacity of the boat?
                    >
                    > The displacement, according to the plans is 600 pounds. Therefore,
                    > widening the boat by 24% will increase the capacity to 744 pounds and
                    > lengthening the boat by 52% will increase the capacity to 1131 pounds?
                    >
                    > Right?????????
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Bolger rules!!!
                    > - no cursing
                    > - stay on topic
                    > - use punctuation
                    > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                    > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                    >
                    >
                  • Jeff Gilbert
                    Petes right the Brick is an answer. Another might be a trad dory which with good freeboard can give real volume in a balanced hull buildable without plans. The
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 2, 2000
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                      Petes right the Brick is an answer. Another might be a
                      trad dory which with good freeboard can give real volume
                      in a balanced hull buildable without plans. The process was
                      described, complete with photo sequence, in Woodenboat
                      Magazine about 1-2 years ago.
                      Which I guess is a plan anyway!
                      If you (or anyone) are
                      interested in this approach contact me off list and I'll dig
                      up the issue number (non-Bolger = off list)
                      Also if the punts so narrow you may as well get a nice looking,
                      faster punt with a sharp end ie a pirouge!
                      Jeff Gilbert
                      jgilbert@...
                      http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/designs.htm

                      ----- Original Messages -----
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Computing Displacement


                      1>>>> I like the simplicity of the Elegant Punt,
                      but I need a larger boat.
                      2>>>>>>>> (PW)
                      Given the very large number of designs out there for punts of
                      different descriptions, why not keep looking. I built an Elegant
                      Punt, and I was not especially pleased with it. It is very narrow and
                      high-sided, compared with what I was used to in a yacht tender.
                      If you need more capacity, have a look at the Brick.
                      Peter
                    • Chuck Leinweber
                      ... David: One thing I learned is to do your gambling on a small boat. My disaster was small and not too expensive. You are right though, about the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 2, 2000
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                        > Chuck --
                        >
                        > Did you learn anything from your misadventure?
                        > <snip>
                        > David

                        David:

                        One thing I learned is to do your gambling on a small boat. My disaster was
                        small and not too expensive. You are right though, about the siren-like
                        lure of the designer/builder label. I still think about it, and might even
                        try it again, someday. This time I will have the experience of the one
                        failure, and a lot more general knowledge about boats.

                        Good luck on the Chesapeake sharpie.

                        Chuck
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