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RE: [bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser

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  • Wade Leftwich
    PCB has made that nice boat even nicer with a new layout for the cockpit: http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/archives/mbissuejuly00.html -- Wade Leftwich
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 6, 2000
      PCB has made that nice boat even nicer with a new layout for the cockpit:

      http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/archives/mbissuejuly00.html

      -- Wade Leftwich
      Ithaca, NY USA


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Giuseppe Bianco [mailto:giuseppe.bianco@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 8:52 AM
      > To: bolger@egroups.com
      > Subject: [bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear all - I was giving a look at John Tuma's pictures and at
      > Dynamite Payson's study plans of this nice boat. Looks great and very
      > safe. Dynamite's study plans are low resolution though, so I couldn't
      > read a few numbers. In particular, I'd like to know how thick the
      > plywood needs to be (I imagine it's 3/8", but the number is very
      > blurred) and how much sail area does it have. I'd like to know also
      > the loaded displacement and draft. Thanks all, and best
      > Pippo
      >
      >
      >
      > Bolger rules!!!
      > - no cursing
      > - stay on topic
      > - use punctuation
      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
      > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
      >
    • John Tuma
      Giuseppe, All of the plywood is 1/4 inch, and Catfish carries 139 sq. ft. of sail. John Tuma
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 6, 2000
        Giuseppe,

        All of the plywood is 1/4 inch, and Catfish carries 139 sq. ft. of sail.

        John Tuma
        >
        > Dear all - I was giving a look at John Tuma's pictures and at
        > Dynamite Payson's study plans of this nice boat. Looks great and very
        > safe. Dynamite's study plans are low resolution though, so I couldn't
        > read a few numbers. In particular, I'd like to know how thick the
        > plywood needs to be (I imagine it's 3/8", but the number is very
        > blurred) and how much sail area does it have. I'd like to know also
        > the loaded displacement and draft. Thanks all, and best
        > Pippo
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing
        > - stay on topic
        > - use punctuation
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
        > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
      • miles_bore
        HI All, Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the modifications made by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back through the
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 18, 2006
          HI All,
          Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the modifications made
          by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back through
          the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and photos
          from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
          But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?

          I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad heavy
          for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago and am
          now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty seems to
          fit the bill so far.

          Cheers and Thanks
          Miles.
        • Nels
          When looking at the photos of the Tumafish cabin, I wonder how it would look if it was a bit higher? Like Bob Cushing s Chebacco.
          Message 4 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
            When looking at the photos of the "Tumafish" cabin, I wonder how it
            would look if it was a bit higher?

            Like Bob Cushing's Chebacco.

            http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm.

            Smaller area sail with a higher boom location and perhaps a small
            mizzen? 4 horse 4-stroke motor?

            http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm

            Nels
          • Chris Curtis
            FYI, the first link will not work unless you remove the trailing period. Otherwise, a beautiful boat! Chris Curtis ... If you are neutral in situations of
            Message 5 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
              FYI, the first link will not work unless you remove the trailing
              period. Otherwise, a beautiful boat!


              Chris Curtis


              On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Nels wrote:

              > When looking at the photos of the "Tumafish" cabin, I wonder how it
              > would look if it was a bit higher?
              >
              > Like Bob Cushing's Chebacco.
              >
              > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm.
              >
              > Smaller area sail with a higher boom location and perhaps a small
              > mizzen? 4 horse 4-stroke motor?
              >
              > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm
              >
              > Nels
              >
              >
              >

              "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the
              side of the oppressor.": Bishop Desmond Tutu -(1931- ) Nobel Prize
              for Peace 1984
            • Chris Curtis
              Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to sleep! CC ... If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the
              Message 6 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to sleep!

                CC


                On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:29 PM, Chris Curtis wrote:

                > FYI, the first link will not work unless you remove the trailing
                > period. Otherwise, a beautiful boat!
                >
                > Chris Curtis
                >
                > On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Nels wrote:
                >
                > > When looking at the photos of the "Tumafish" cabin, I wonder how it
                > > would look if it was a bit higher?
                > >
                > > Like Bob Cushing's Chebacco.
                > >
                > > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm.
                > >
                > > Smaller area sail with a higher boom location and perhaps a small
                > > mizzen? 4 horse 4-stroke motor?
                > >
                > > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm
                > >
                > > Nels
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the
                > side of the oppressor.": Bishop Desmond Tutu -(1931- ) Nobel Prize
                > for Peace 1984
                >
                >
                >

                "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the
                side of the oppressor.": Bishop Desmond Tutu -(1931- ) Nobel Prize
                for Peace 1984
              • Nels
                ... Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links. I think PCB&F would be interested in a Birdwatcher type cabin upgrade to Catfish.
                Message 7 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis
                  <ccurtis-keyword-sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to sleep!
                  >
                  > CC
                  >
                  Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links.

                  I think PCB&F would be interested in a "Birdwatcher" type cabin
                  upgrade to Catfish. And it would be a very useful consideration for
                  some folks. I have often wondered why more of these boats were never
                  built. Perhaps because it may take almost as much work as the already
                  available Chebacco version, may be the deciding factor?

                  Yet it is lighter to trailer, requires a smaller motor, and seems to
                  have a lot of interior space for it's outer dimensions. Sort of a
                  motorsailer version of Camper 640 for those of us too lazy to row. Bob
                  mentions he could do 7-8 knots with the CMS with the 9.9. This might
                  do 5 knots with half the power.

                  So I ordered the Payson book to see what he has to say about it. If
                  one considers the cost of materials, including sails, the plan price,
                  and the cost of a smaller motor which just sips gas - perhaps the time
                  is ripe:-)

                  To me the bow profile of this design is really attractive. Sort of
                  like one the larger freighter canoes written about in a recent MAIB
                  article. But has shelter and probably costs less to build.

                  Nels (Taking a break at doing the old taxes.)
                • Chris Curtis
                  ... I realized the trailing (correct punctuation) would cause less Internet savvy people problems. I posted before I even tried the second link. I was
                  Message 8 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                    On Apr 27, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Nels wrote:

                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis
                    > <ccurtis-keyword-sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to
                    > sleep!
                    > >
                    > > CC
                    > >
                    > Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links.

                    I realized the trailing (correct punctuation) would cause less
                    Internet savvy people problems. I posted before I even tried the
                    second link. I was remarking to myself to wake up. Just trying to
                    be helpful (sometimes a liability;0)
                    >
                    > I think PCB&F would be interested in a "Birdwatcher" type cabin
                    > upgrade to Catfish. And it would be a very useful consideration for
                    > some folks. I have often wondered why more of these boats were never
                    > built. Perhaps because it may take almost as much work as the already
                    > available Chebacco version, may be the deciding factor?

                    I agree the Catfish would be nice with a BW cabin. But then again,
                    many boats could be fitted with the BW cabin. I'm a bit biased, as
                    I'm building a BW style boat. I think some boats "take off" due to
                    persons whom share their building and sailing pictures. I think this
                    is inspiring to some (many?). Many (all?) of the popular designs
                    have a community that builds around them, and things take on a life
                    of their own.

                    Chris Curtis


                    >
                    > Yet it is lighter to trailer, requires a smaller motor, and seems to
                    > have a lot of interior space for it's outer dimensions. Sort of a
                    > motorsailer version of Camper 640 for those of us too lazy to row. Bob
                    > mentions he could do 7-8 knots with the CMS with the 9.9. This might
                    > do 5 knots with half the power.
                    >
                    > So I ordered the Payson book to see what he has to say about it. If
                    > one considers the cost of materials, including sails, the plan price,
                    > and the cost of a smaller motor which just sips gas - perhaps the time
                    > is ripe:-)
                    >
                    > To me the bow profile of this design is really attractive. Sort of
                    > like one the larger freighter canoes written about in a recent MAIB
                    > article. But has shelter and probably costs less to build.
                    > Nels (Taking a break at doing the old taxes.)
                  • John and Kathy Trussell
                    I wonder what would happen if you put a BW cabin on an Old Shoe. With Old Shoe s vertical sides, it should be a straight forward project, although the sail
                    Message 9 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                      I wonder what would happen if you put a BW cabin on an Old Shoe. With Old Shoe's vertical sides, it should be a straight forward project, although the sail plan would have to be altered to clear the top.

                      JohnT
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Chris Curtis
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:14 PM
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beachcruiser



                      On Apr 27, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Nels wrote:

                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis
                      > <ccurtis-keyword-sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to
                      > sleep!
                      > >
                      > > CC
                      > >
                      > Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links.

                      I realized the trailing (correct punctuation) would cause less
                      Internet savvy people problems. I posted before I even tried the
                      second link. I was remarking to myself to wake up. Just trying to
                      be helpful (sometimes a liability;0)
                      >
                      > I think PCB&F would be interested in a "Birdwatcher" type cabin
                      > upgrade to Catfish. And it would be a very useful consideration for
                      > some folks. I have often wondered why more of these boats were never
                      > built. Perhaps because it may take almost as much work as the already
                      > available Chebacco version, may be the deciding factor?

                      I agree the Catfish would be nice with a BW cabin. But then again,
                      many boats could be fitted with the BW cabin. I'm a bit biased, as
                      I'm building a BW style boat. I think some boats "take off" due to
                      persons whom share their building and sailing pictures. I think this
                      is inspiring to some (many?). Many (all?) of the popular designs
                      have a community that builds around them, and things take on a life
                      of their own.

                      Chris Curtis

                      >
                      > Yet it is lighter to trailer, requires a smaller motor, and seems to
                      > have a lot of interior space for it's outer dimensions. Sort of a
                      > motorsailer version of Camper 640 for those of us too lazy to row. Bob
                      > mentions he could do 7-8 knots with the CMS with the 9.9. This might
                      > do 5 knots with half the power.
                      >
                      > So I ordered the Payson book to see what he has to say about it. If
                      > one considers the cost of materials, including sails, the plan price,
                      > and the cost of a smaller motor which just sips gas - perhaps the time
                      > is ripe:-)
                      >
                      > To me the bow profile of this design is really attractive. Sort of
                      > like one the larger freighter canoes written about in a recent MAIB
                      > article. But has shelter and probably costs less to build.
                      > Nels (Taking a break at doing the old taxes.)






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                    • lakepepinmollyblue
                      ... With Old Shoe s vertical sides, it should be a straight forward project, although the sail plan would have to be altered to clear the top. Planning this
                      Message 10 of 29 , Apr 28, 2007
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
                        <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I wonder what would happen if you put a BW cabin on an Old Shoe.
                        With Old Shoe's vertical sides, it should be a straight forward
                        project, although the sail plan would have to be altered to clear the
                        top.

                        Planning this very thing for next winters project. A note from Bolger
                        OK'd the concept and suggested simply raising the main a foot would
                        give clearance without messing up balance. I'd proposed the Super
                        Mouse rig but he had no time to work it out. Meanwhile, back to
                        grinding on the new Teal if it's gonna splash by Memorial Day.

                        From the muddy but blessedly ice free Mississippi,

                        Bob
                      • bris120
                        Hi Miles I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your query in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and started building
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 22, 2007
                          Hi Miles

                          I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your query
                          in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                          started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken by
                          the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                          original version you can see it didnt work too well.

                          I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                          cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original sketches?
                          My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising and
                          fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it will
                          work with the updated deck and interior layout.

                          Cheers Brett.


                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > HI All,
                          > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the modifications
                          made
                          > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                          through
                          > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                          photos
                          > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                          > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                          >
                          > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                          heavy
                          > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago and
                          am
                          > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty seems
                          to
                          > fit the bill so far.
                          >
                          > Cheers and Thanks
                          > Miles.
                          >
                        • graeme19121984
                          G day Brett, are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay, or right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up North. I
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 23, 2007
                            G'day Brett,

                            are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay, or
                            right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up
                            North. I think a recent Ross Lillistone cruising story was based on
                            this design. It sounds as if you too want to cruise - not daysail.

                            SA, I think, wrote about the optional revision to #589 available
                            from PB&F in MAIB July 15, 2000 "...And the seating is very
                            comfortable. She could still be organized as a camping overnighter
                            without much trouble, boom tent and all...". They write of a "boom
                            tent" - I don't think one of the original two options for shelter
                            would fit without much enlarging and reshaping, the other may well
                            suit, or almost, so you might have to adapt the original cuddy
                            shelter designs yourself. Neither were "boom tents".

                            What they do say when writing about this optional revision
                            is "..Some day we'll probably get around to redrawing her once more,
                            to cater to those with the widespread no-lead-melting impulse who
                            desire a "garageable" light cruiser with hard shelter for 1+1 crew,
                            this time with a Birdwatcher-type house..." - and I don't think they
                            have as yet done that.

                            Importantly, I think, FWIW, they say about the revision "...Now the
                            narrow decks are high enough, and the hull sides are buoyant enough,
                            to make it very hard to ship any water over the coarning (sic) in
                            day-sailing weather..." - This needs some translating as the decks
                            are at the original height. It's just that, though narrowed a fair
                            bit, their width, but mainly the coaming and topsides freeboard will
                            keep most water where it should be most of the time. Note: Day-
                            sailing!

                            Compare that with what they write about designing the
                            original "...We had the idea of making her into a camping cruiser,
                            with high sides and enough deck to make her cockpit float well clear
                            of the water even in a beam ends knockdown. She could go off by
                            herself in squally weather without much tension at the helm..." -
                            Note: camping cruiser, by herself, squally weather, little tension!

                            The optional revision gains the questioable benefits of the
                            centreboard, but loses the raised floor, at least as shown in the
                            cartoon. That raised floor gave a 52" wide deck flat for real spread-
                            out sleeping and other accomodations. The cartoon also seems to show
                            the crew as quite cramped for leg room when seated on the revised
                            benches. Crew is shown as having to stick their legs out and rest
                            them on the centreboard case, otherwise the knees will have to
                            remain bent. The bottom is quite narrow, maybe 3', so sleeping
                            either side of that case is goint to be very squishy, and not
                            cuddly, for some.

                            FWIW I think a leeboard (or two)could be adapted fairly easily to
                            the original design, and I'd go with an offset transom-hung kick-up
                            rudder (or two shallow endplaters). Yes, that's a bit Michalak-like,
                            but it's also very, very much Bolger. (BEACH CAT is quite different
                            to even the closest of JM's designs IMO.)

                            How about some more narrow rectangular ports along the sides high up
                            in the original, or a narrow full length PICTURE window strip ala
                            BIRDWATCHER? Could a strip of ply topsides only a couple of inches
                            wide be replaced with polycarbonate without too much trouble
                            structurally or in the building? What do any BIRDWATCHER or
                            NAVIGATOR builders think of that?

                            BEACH CAT
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/BEACH%
                            20CAT/ Paste on that last bit of link in browser if broken, or
                            third down page here:

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/

                            Graeme

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Miles
                            >
                            > I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your
                            query
                            > in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                            > started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken
                            by
                            > the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                            > original version you can see it didnt work too well.
                            >
                            > I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                            > cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original
                            sketches?
                            > My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising
                            and
                            > fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it will
                            > work with the updated deck and interior layout.
                            >
                            > Cheers Brett.
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > HI All,
                            > > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the
                            modifications
                            > made
                            > > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                            > through
                            > > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                            > photos
                            > > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                            > > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                            > >
                            > > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                            > heavy
                            > > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago
                            and
                            > am
                            > > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty
                            seems
                            > to
                            > > fit the bill so far.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers and Thanks
                            > > Miles.
                            > >
                            >
                          • bris120
                            Hi Graeme Yes I am in Brisbane, Aust and the boat is for weekend cruising around Moreton Bay. Thank you for your observations as I have been trying to make
                            Message 13 of 29 , Aug 23, 2007
                              Hi Graeme

                              Yes I am in Brisbane, Aust and the boat is for weekend cruising
                              around Moreton Bay. Thank you for your observations as I have been
                              trying to make sense of the drawings and have faxed Phil Bolger to
                              clarify a few points such as the height of the sides and ballast.

                              I have decided that should I proceed I would stick with the fixed
                              keel with the revised interior and deck layout to retain the open
                              floor space. I am not sure about the floor heights. I would prefer a
                              lower floor for head clearance (I am 6'2") if possible and this may
                              be better for keeping out of the sun under the canvas shelter.

                              I have asked Phil Bolger whether the canvas shelters have been
                              retained on the update. If not I dont think they would be hard to
                              redesign as I like the flexibility of only having them when needed
                              and still enjoying a full open layout when not.

                              By the way my bet is Lillistone was talking about a Micro in the
                              article you mention - have another read and it fits. Also I dont know
                              of any beachcats or catfish beachcruisers built here yet - they are
                              very elusive! I suspect that should a couple be built and a bit of
                              info and photos make it to the web they may take off.

                              Thanks for the info and I will keep you posted when I hear more from
                              Mr Bolger about the design.

                              Cheers Brett.


                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > G'day Brett,
                              >
                              > are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay,
                              or
                              > right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up
                              > North. I think a recent Ross Lillistone cruising story was based on
                              > this design. It sounds as if you too want to cruise - not daysail.
                              >
                              > SA, I think, wrote about the optional revision to #589 available
                              > from PB&F in MAIB July 15, 2000 "...And the seating is very
                              > comfortable. She could still be organized as a camping overnighter
                              > without much trouble, boom tent and all...". They write of a "boom
                              > tent" - I don't think one of the original two options for shelter
                              > would fit without much enlarging and reshaping, the other may well
                              > suit, or almost, so you might have to adapt the original cuddy
                              > shelter designs yourself. Neither were "boom tents".
                              >
                              > What they do say when writing about this optional revision
                              > is "..Some day we'll probably get around to redrawing her once
                              more,
                              > to cater to those with the widespread no-lead-melting impulse who
                              > desire a "garageable" light cruiser with hard shelter for 1+1 crew,
                              > this time with a Birdwatcher-type house..." - and I don't think
                              they
                              > have as yet done that.
                              >
                              > Importantly, I think, FWIW, they say about the revision "...Now the
                              > narrow decks are high enough, and the hull sides are buoyant
                              enough,
                              > to make it very hard to ship any water over the coarning (sic) in
                              > day-sailing weather..." - This needs some translating as the decks
                              > are at the original height. It's just that, though narrowed a fair
                              > bit, their width, but mainly the coaming and topsides freeboard
                              will
                              > keep most water where it should be most of the time. Note: Day-
                              > sailing!
                              >
                              > Compare that with what they write about designing the
                              > original "...We had the idea of making her into a camping cruiser,
                              > with high sides and enough deck to make her cockpit float well
                              clear
                              > of the water even in a beam ends knockdown. She could go off by
                              > herself in squally weather without much tension at the helm..." -
                              > Note: camping cruiser, by herself, squally weather, little tension!
                              >
                              > The optional revision gains the questioable benefits of the
                              > centreboard, but loses the raised floor, at least as shown in the
                              > cartoon. That raised floor gave a 52" wide deck flat for real
                              spread-
                              > out sleeping and other accomodations. The cartoon also seems to
                              show
                              > the crew as quite cramped for leg room when seated on the revised
                              > benches. Crew is shown as having to stick their legs out and rest
                              > them on the centreboard case, otherwise the knees will have to
                              > remain bent. The bottom is quite narrow, maybe 3', so sleeping
                              > either side of that case is goint to be very squishy, and not
                              > cuddly, for some.
                              >
                              > FWIW I think a leeboard (or two)could be adapted fairly easily to
                              > the original design, and I'd go with an offset transom-hung kick-up
                              > rudder (or two shallow endplaters). Yes, that's a bit Michalak-
                              like,
                              > but it's also very, very much Bolger. (BEACH CAT is quite different
                              > to even the closest of JM's designs IMO.)
                              >
                              > How about some more narrow rectangular ports along the sides high
                              up
                              > in the original, or a narrow full length PICTURE window strip ala
                              > BIRDWATCHER? Could a strip of ply topsides only a couple of inches
                              > wide be replaced with polycarbonate without too much trouble
                              > structurally or in the building? What do any BIRDWATCHER or
                              > NAVIGATOR builders think of that?
                              >
                              > BEACH CAT
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/BEACH%
                              > 20CAT/ Paste on that last bit of link in browser if broken, or
                              > third down page here:
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/
                              >
                              > Graeme
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi Miles
                              > >
                              > > I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your
                              > query
                              > > in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                              > > started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken
                              > by
                              > > the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                              > > original version you can see it didnt work too well.
                              > >
                              > > I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                              > > cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original
                              > sketches?
                              > > My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising
                              > and
                              > > fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it
                              will
                              > > work with the updated deck and interior layout.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers Brett.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > HI All,
                              > > > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the
                              > modifications
                              > > made
                              > > > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                              > > through
                              > > > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                              > > photos
                              > > > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                              > > > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                              > > >
                              > > > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                              > > heavy
                              > > > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago
                              > and
                              > > am
                              > > > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty
                              > seems
                              > > to
                              > > > fit the bill so far.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers and Thanks
                              > > > Miles.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • bris120
                              Hi Graeme I had another look at Ross Lillistone s article and I stand corrected - it may be a beachcat, not a micro as I had thought. He refers to a single
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 2, 2007
                                Hi Graeme

                                I had another look at Ross Lillistone's article and I stand
                                corrected - it may be a beachcat, not a micro as I had thought. He
                                refers to a single gaff sail, not a yawl.

                                I might send him a message to see if you are right!

                                Cheers, Brett.



                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > G'day Brett,
                                >
                                > are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay,
                                or
                                > right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up
                                > North. I think a recent Ross Lillistone cruising story was based on
                                > this design. It sounds as if you too want to cruise - not daysail.
                                >
                                > SA, I think, wrote about the optional revision to #589 available
                                > from PB&F in MAIB July 15, 2000 "...And the seating is very
                                > comfortable. She could still be organized as a camping overnighter
                                > without much trouble, boom tent and all...". They write of a "boom
                                > tent" - I don't think one of the original two options for shelter
                                > would fit without much enlarging and reshaping, the other may well
                                > suit, or almost, so you might have to adapt the original cuddy
                                > shelter designs yourself. Neither were "boom tents".
                                >
                                > What they do say when writing about this optional revision
                                > is "..Some day we'll probably get around to redrawing her once
                                more,
                                > to cater to those with the widespread no-lead-melting impulse who
                                > desire a "garageable" light cruiser with hard shelter for 1+1 crew,
                                > this time with a Birdwatcher-type house..." - and I don't think
                                they
                                > have as yet done that.
                                >
                                > Importantly, I think, FWIW, they say about the revision "...Now the
                                > narrow decks are high enough, and the hull sides are buoyant
                                enough,
                                > to make it very hard to ship any water over the coarning (sic) in
                                > day-sailing weather..." - This needs some translating as the decks
                                > are at the original height. It's just that, though narrowed a fair
                                > bit, their width, but mainly the coaming and topsides freeboard
                                will
                                > keep most water where it should be most of the time. Note: Day-
                                > sailing!
                                >
                                > Compare that with what they write about designing the
                                > original "...We had the idea of making her into a camping cruiser,
                                > with high sides and enough deck to make her cockpit float well
                                clear
                                > of the water even in a beam ends knockdown. She could go off by
                                > herself in squally weather without much tension at the helm..." -
                                > Note: camping cruiser, by herself, squally weather, little tension!
                                >
                                > The optional revision gains the questioable benefits of the
                                > centreboard, but loses the raised floor, at least as shown in the
                                > cartoon. That raised floor gave a 52" wide deck flat for real
                                spread-
                                > out sleeping and other accomodations. The cartoon also seems to
                                show
                                > the crew as quite cramped for leg room when seated on the revised
                                > benches. Crew is shown as having to stick their legs out and rest
                                > them on the centreboard case, otherwise the knees will have to
                                > remain bent. The bottom is quite narrow, maybe 3', so sleeping
                                > either side of that case is goint to be very squishy, and not
                                > cuddly, for some.
                                >
                                > FWIW I think a leeboard (or two)could be adapted fairly easily to
                                > the original design, and I'd go with an offset transom-hung kick-up
                                > rudder (or two shallow endplaters). Yes, that's a bit Michalak-
                                like,
                                > but it's also very, very much Bolger. (BEACH CAT is quite different
                                > to even the closest of JM's designs IMO.)
                                >
                                > How about some more narrow rectangular ports along the sides high
                                up
                                > in the original, or a narrow full length PICTURE window strip ala
                                > BIRDWATCHER? Could a strip of ply topsides only a couple of inches
                                > wide be replaced with polycarbonate without too much trouble
                                > structurally or in the building? What do any BIRDWATCHER or
                                > NAVIGATOR builders think of that?
                                >
                                > BEACH CAT
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/BEACH%
                                > 20CAT/ Paste on that last bit of link in browser if broken, or
                                > third down page here:
                                >
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/
                                >
                                > Graeme
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi Miles
                                > >
                                > > I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your
                                > query
                                > > in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                                > > started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken
                                > by
                                > > the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                                > > original version you can see it didnt work too well.
                                > >
                                > > I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                                > > cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original
                                > sketches?
                                > > My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising
                                > and
                                > > fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it
                                will
                                > > work with the updated deck and interior layout.
                                > >
                                > > Cheers Brett.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > HI All,
                                > > > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the
                                > modifications
                                > > made
                                > > > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                                > > through
                                > > > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                                > > photos
                                > > > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                                > > > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                                > > >
                                > > > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                                > > heavy
                                > > > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago
                                > and
                                > > am
                                > > > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty
                                > seems
                                > > to
                                > > > fit the bill so far.
                                > > >
                                > > > Cheers and Thanks
                                > > > Miles.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • graeme19121984
                                Hi Brett, yes, your thinking it to be a Micro made me go and read it again too. The shallow keel, that, and being able to walk right through the high cockpit
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 2, 2007
                                  Hi Brett,

                                  yes, your thinking it to be a Micro made me go and read it again
                                  too. The shallow keel, that, and being able to walk right through
                                  the high cockpit to the mast were other clues as well as the single
                                  gaff sail. I don't know about all the _built in_ storage he mentions
                                  though, unless using the space for the wc for general storage
                                  instead. I'm sure he's written a few other stories that feature a
                                  Micro. It'd be interesting to see what his reply was, maybe he may
                                  be building a CB/BC...

                                  The other day I roughly marked out some of the plan view sectioned
                                  lines of CATFISH/BEACH CAT and in even less detail a few other boats
                                  for comparison. WOW! For 10 sheets of 6mm ply that is a lot of boat!

                                  I really don't like the revision, bearing in mind that it is
                                  cruising that I'm considering more than a short day sail. The
                                  considerably less draft than with the fixed keel would be an
                                  improvement, but the centreboard (and side benches) just wrecks the
                                  cockpit. I still think leeboards, of whatever kind (twin or solo),
                                  or a single lee daggerboard (the one off ANHINGA might do), or
                                  inclined bilge daggerboards would allow less draft while keeping the
                                  internal space. These all should work as the CLR needs to be at or
                                  very near the widest beam. I think the flow lines are in line for
                                  the bilgeboards. I wonder if it could be built so that the keel
                                  could be easily added later if other options really didn't pan out?

                                  I could see the merit in what John Tuma posted about placing the
                                  deck stiffening stringer on the underside so that the decks made a
                                  better seat for sitting up on the windward side. I'm 185cm, and as a
                                  side bench, for me the side deck height would be reasonably
                                  comfortable.My feet wouldn't reach the other deck edge though, so
                                  perhaps I'd install some hiking toe straps on the floor in racing
                                  style ;-) The side decks would be much too high for kids, so I see
                                  why John Tuma installed side benches inside them.

                                  The boat could be sailed while you were very comfortably sprawled
                                  athwartships across the floor too. PB&F are correct though when they
                                  said the decks were a bit low for the most comfort inside - the
                                  trouble is: if you raise them you can't sit out on them :-( That
                                  still leaves the complicated birdwatcher option they mentioned of
                                  much higher sides with picture windows.

                                  The boat seems unbelievably roomy! There are quite a few interesting
                                  features that PB must have put considerable beach cruiser experience
                                  and thought into. The narrow bottom shoe panel makes it look to me
                                  as if the boat would get along nicely - and in stronger wind John
                                  Tuma posted, IIRC, that she would plane on the bilge panel!

                                  There's just the issue of draft: about 15" vs 6".




                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Graeme
                                  >
                                  > I had another look at Ross Lillistone's article...
                                • bris120
                                  Hi Graeme I am also interested in the cruising features of the boat and would go with the fixed keel - while the draft is a bit of a nuisance I think that from
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 4, 2007
                                    Hi Graeme

                                    I am also interested in the cruising features of the boat and would
                                    go with the fixed keel - while the draft is a bit of a nuisance I
                                    think that from a simplicity point of view and extra space it
                                    provides it wins out over the centreboard.

                                    I am just not sure about the cockpit layout. I am 6'2" and my wife
                                    would like somewhere to get out of the sun. We are not interested in
                                    sleeping in the boat so I am thinking of using the revised narrow
                                    decks with some side benches at the aft end of the cockpit only
                                    connecting with the rear bench. I am still unsure whether I would put
                                    the false floor in as per the original design or go with the revised
                                    layout which gives more freeboard. The bottom of the boat is flat
                                    anyway!

                                    I like the idea of the canvas shelter and would be adapting something
                                    from the original design or making a second boom purely for a
                                    shelter/tent which sits under the boom. I think that until the boat
                                    is built that decision will not be able to be made.

                                    So many permutations with this design now, choice is a double sided
                                    blade! One of us better bite the bullet and build one so we have more
                                    to go on!

                                    Cheers Brett.








                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi Brett,
                                    >
                                    > yes, your thinking it to be a Micro made me go and read it again
                                    > too. The shallow keel, that, and being able to walk right through
                                    > the high cockpit to the mast were other clues as well as the single
                                    > gaff sail. I don't know about all the _built in_ storage he
                                    mentions
                                    > though, unless using the space for the wc for general storage
                                    > instead. I'm sure he's written a few other stories that feature a
                                    > Micro. It'd be interesting to see what his reply was, maybe he may
                                    > be building a CB/BC...
                                    >
                                    > The other day I roughly marked out some of the plan view sectioned
                                    > lines of CATFISH/BEACH CAT and in even less detail a few other
                                    boats
                                    > for comparison. WOW! For 10 sheets of 6mm ply that is a lot of boat!
                                    >
                                    > I really don't like the revision, bearing in mind that it is
                                    > cruising that I'm considering more than a short day sail. The
                                    > considerably less draft than with the fixed keel would be an
                                    > improvement, but the centreboard (and side benches) just wrecks the
                                    > cockpit. I still think leeboards, of whatever kind (twin or solo),
                                    > or a single lee daggerboard (the one off ANHINGA might do), or
                                    > inclined bilge daggerboards would allow less draft while keeping
                                    the
                                    > internal space. These all should work as the CLR needs to be at or
                                    > very near the widest beam. I think the flow lines are in line for
                                    > the bilgeboards. I wonder if it could be built so that the keel
                                    > could be easily added later if other options really didn't pan out?
                                    >
                                    > I could see the merit in what John Tuma posted about placing the
                                    > deck stiffening stringer on the underside so that the decks made a
                                    > better seat for sitting up on the windward side. I'm 185cm, and as
                                    a
                                    > side bench, for me the side deck height would be reasonably
                                    > comfortable.My feet wouldn't reach the other deck edge though, so
                                    > perhaps I'd install some hiking toe straps on the floor in racing
                                    > style ;-) The side decks would be much too high for kids, so I see
                                    > why John Tuma installed side benches inside them.
                                    >
                                    > The boat could be sailed while you were very comfortably sprawled
                                    > athwartships across the floor too. PB&F are correct though when
                                    they
                                    > said the decks were a bit low for the most comfort inside - the
                                    > trouble is: if you raise them you can't sit out on them :-( That
                                    > still leaves the complicated birdwatcher option they mentioned of
                                    > much higher sides with picture windows.
                                    >
                                    > The boat seems unbelievably roomy! There are quite a few
                                    interesting
                                    > features that PB must have put considerable beach cruiser
                                    experience
                                    > and thought into. The narrow bottom shoe panel makes it look to me
                                    > as if the boat would get along nicely - and in stronger wind John
                                    > Tuma posted, IIRC, that she would plane on the bilge panel!
                                    >
                                    > There's just the issue of draft: about 15" vs 6".
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Graeme
                                    > >
                                    > > I had another look at Ross Lillistone's article...
                                    >
                                  • graeme19121984
                                    Hi Brett, Ahhh... permutations... and time. In the back of my mind somewhere is the thought that actually, for this summer, it will be a 6 sheet disposable
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 4, 2007
                                      Hi Brett,

                                      Ahhh... permutations... and time. In the back of my mind somewhere
                                      is the thought that actually, for this summer, it will be a 6 sheet
                                      disposable Zephyr with a bimini thingo, partial floorboards, forward
                                      bulwarks, and maybe a lashed-on outrigger with an outboard slung
                                      from that...


                                      I wrote above that the centreboard (and side benches) wreck the
                                      Catfish cabin for cruising. That's not quite what I meant.
                                      Comfortable cruising would be possible with one or the other; that
                                      is, an adult could find room to stretch out on the original floor
                                      with either the cb or the benches, but not both.

                                      When I mocked up the lines in the backyard using garden hose,
                                      coloured clothes pegs, a kitchen chair with a thick wooden block on
                                      it to get the deck height, and a Hills hoist for the mast, I felt
                                      that in the original there was enough space between the cb and decks
                                      to sit out on the decks without cramping the legs too much. Of
                                      course, aft of the cb there was more athwartships leg room, and I
                                      looked at that option, but would simply prefer the versatility of
                                      all the space of the original floor if it's possible with a leeboard.

                                      I'm 6'2" and fairly sure your wife could get out of the sun in some
                                      comfort under a canopy. Sun smart is important to me too! Also, bean
                                      bags might well suit this boat!

                                      The fin keel is simple isn't it, and that's attractive, and as PB&F
                                      wrote the finned boat will sail in thinner water, but could it be
                                      slid any across a mud bank when taking a short cut? The tidal drop
                                      means the boat often would have to be anchored quite a way out
                                      (about the same as Micro) and that means either wading a long way
                                      through chest high water or knee high mud. And the trailer is not as
                                      simple. Yep, permutations alright


                                      Cheers
                                      Graeme


                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:

                                      > .. keel.. I think that from a simplicity point of view and extra
                                      > space it provides it wins out over the centreboard.
                                    • bris120
                                      Hi Graeme, You make a good point about the centreboard draft and its practical benefits around beaches and tidal areas. I agree that when you look at the
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 6, 2007
                                        Hi Graeme,

                                        You make a good point about the centreboard draft and its practical
                                        benefits around beaches and tidal areas. I agree that when you look
                                        at the sketch for the revised layout it looks a bit cramped with both
                                        the cb and side benches. Hard to tell as just a few inches can make a
                                        dramatic difference in comfort either way. It has plenty of beam. It
                                        may be fine for cruising but not for sleeping in? (We are not
                                        interested in sleeping in the boat so I am more concerned with a
                                        roomy cockpit for fishing and sailing)

                                        I have been told the revised layout has 5" wide decks which sounds
                                        good for perching on but I think they are the same height as the
                                        original? Bolger commented that the original decks were too high to
                                        sit on, or under comfortably which inspired the revision in the first
                                        place.

                                        I am going to have to mock something up like yourself or start
                                        looking elsewhere as the uncertainty is killing me!

                                        Cheers Brett.

                                        PS Was your Hills Hoist stayed or unstayed? ;)



                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi Brett,
                                        >
                                        > Ahhh... permutations... and time. In the back of my mind somewhere
                                        > is the thought that actually, for this summer, it will be a 6 sheet
                                        > disposable Zephyr with a bimini thingo, partial floorboards,
                                        forward
                                        > bulwarks, and maybe a lashed-on outrigger with an outboard slung
                                        > from that...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I wrote above that the centreboard (and side benches) wreck the
                                        > Catfish cabin for cruising. That's not quite what I meant.
                                        > Comfortable cruising would be possible with one or the other; that
                                        > is, an adult could find room to stretch out on the original floor
                                        > with either the cb or the benches, but not both.
                                        >
                                        > When I mocked up the lines in the backyard using garden hose,
                                        > coloured clothes pegs, a kitchen chair with a thick wooden block on
                                        > it to get the deck height, and a Hills hoist for the mast, I felt
                                        > that in the original there was enough space between the cb and
                                        decks
                                        > to sit out on the decks without cramping the legs too much. Of
                                        > course, aft of the cb there was more athwartships leg room, and I
                                        > looked at that option, but would simply prefer the versatility of
                                        > all the space of the original floor if it's possible with a
                                        leeboard.
                                        >
                                        > I'm 6'2" and fairly sure your wife could get out of the sun in some
                                        > comfort under a canopy. Sun smart is important to me too! Also,
                                        bean
                                        > bags might well suit this boat!
                                        >
                                        > The fin keel is simple isn't it, and that's attractive, and as PB&F
                                        > wrote the finned boat will sail in thinner water, but could it be
                                        > slid any across a mud bank when taking a short cut? The tidal drop
                                        > means the boat often would have to be anchored quite a way out
                                        > (about the same as Micro) and that means either wading a long way
                                        > through chest high water or knee high mud. And the trailer is not
                                        as
                                        > simple. Yep, permutations alright
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Cheers
                                        > Graeme
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > .. keel.. I think that from a simplicity point of view and extra
                                        > > space it provides it wins out over the centreboard.
                                        >
                                      • graeme19121984
                                        ... Go ahead and mock it up Brett. Then both your wife and yourself can sit inside the lines and get a very good feel for how it would work for real. You can
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 6, 2007
                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:
                                          > I am going to have to mock something up like yourself or start
                                          > looking elsewhere as the uncertainty is killing me!

                                          Go ahead and mock it up Brett. Then both your wife and yourself can
                                          sit inside the lines and get a very good feel for how it would work
                                          for real. You can try out any combination of options from the
                                          original or upgrade, or others you may think of. My understanding is
                                          that the deck height for the upgrade wasn't changed. Plenty of room
                                          for fishing etc. Have you got the study plan? It's easy enough to
                                          get close enough measurements from that.

                                          If the salient keel is done away with, another cb option that frees
                                          up cockpit floor space (I've been looking at it today on another non-
                                          Bolger boat having a "false" floor that is closely sized and
                                          proportioned to Catfish) is like the Cartopper solution. A big kick
                                          up rudder off the transom to make up for a smaller than usual cb
                                          that could be way up forward. The cb could be high aspect, and being
                                          relatively long and narrow could have much of its width below the
                                          floor. The cb case might stick up above the original floor by only
                                          as much as 6" to 8" or so. The cb case might have to be sealed, so
                                          there's good and bad. If the board were in a higher case something
                                          like the brilliant one in SPARKLER (pivot like that in Aussie
                                          Corsairs if you know them) that might serve without having to be
                                          sealed (like the upgrade), but OTH it does protrude higher into the
                                          cockpit space.

                                          Graeme

                                          > PS Was your Hills Hoist stayed or unstayed? ;)

                                          Lots of people seem to opt for other solutions nowadays, but mine's
                                          stayed unstayed :0)
                                        • sw3tom
                                          I came across this discussion while searching for Catfish info. I just ordered the plans after lots of research on different catboats and decided that this one
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 7, 2007
                                            I came across this discussion while searching for Catfish info. I
                                            just ordered the plans after lots of research on different catboats
                                            and decided that this one "fits" me. I will modify the plans to allow
                                            a more "normal" cat boat cockpit but also retain the canvass shelter
                                            idea. I don't think that it will be difficult to come up with a good
                                            compromise.

                                            The hull itself is similar to many other boats room-wise. I've
                                            compared it to the study plans of the Wittholz 15' catboat which also
                                            has a functional cockpit and a forward "cuddy". I think that if I
                                            keep the cuddy area as designed but reduce the side decks to about 5
                                            inches with a nice fair from the cuddy that it will work. Then I can
                                            build in cockpit seats that can also double as narrow births verses
                                            sleeping on the deck. I will know when the plans arrive and I have
                                            had a chance to work with them a bit. I don't see why it shouldn't be
                                            do-able for a daysailor with a camping option.

                                            I do like the the fixed keel and plan to stay with that. I do think
                                            that I will frame the hull verses stitch and glue though. I've just
                                            finished a Mertens PK78 sailing dinghy and while I am impressed with
                                            the boat and design, I did not enjoy the fiberglass work...and I've
                                            done plenty. Part of the goal of building a boat is the actual
                                            building pleasure and I much prefere wood work over epoxy/glass.

                                            I'm not a heretic though; I understand the benefit of epoxy and will
                                            plan on using it as fastener but want to skip the filets and glass. I
                                            have the Glen-L plywood construction book and it should really help.
                                            I also have a book that shows the Bobcat being this way...

                                            Good luck if you decide to build and I will try to share my results
                                            as well.

                                            Tommy

                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                            > > I am going to have to mock something up like yourself or start
                                            > > looking elsewhere as the uncertainty is killing me!
                                            >
                                            > Go ahead and mock it up Brett. Then both your wife and yourself can
                                            > sit inside the lines and get a very good feel for how it would work
                                            > for real. You can try out any combination of options from the
                                            > original or upgrade, or others you may think of. My understanding
                                            is
                                            > that the deck height for the upgrade wasn't changed. Plenty of room
                                            > for fishing etc. Have you got the study plan? It's easy enough to
                                            > get close enough measurements from that.
                                            >
                                            > If the salient keel is done away with, another cb option that frees
                                            > up cockpit floor space (I've been looking at it today on another
                                            non-
                                            > Bolger boat having a "false" floor that is closely sized and
                                            > proportioned to Catfish) is like the Cartopper solution. A big kick
                                            > up rudder off the transom to make up for a smaller than usual cb
                                            > that could be way up forward. The cb could be high aspect, and
                                            being
                                            > relatively long and narrow could have much of its width below the
                                            > floor. The cb case might stick up above the original floor by only
                                            > as much as 6" to 8" or so. The cb case might have to be sealed, so
                                            > there's good and bad. If the board were in a higher case something
                                            > like the brilliant one in SPARKLER (pivot like that in Aussie
                                            > Corsairs if you know them) that might serve without having to be
                                            > sealed (like the upgrade), but OTH it does protrude higher into the
                                            > cockpit space.
                                            >
                                            > Graeme
                                            >
                                            > > PS Was your Hills Hoist stayed or unstayed? ;)
                                            >
                                            > Lots of people seem to opt for other solutions nowadays, but mine's
                                            > stayed unstayed :0)
                                            >
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