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Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?

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  • Matthew Hall
    In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18 x  5 whereas AF4 is
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 24, 2014
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      In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'.  With the HP restrictions on my lakes (9.9 Max) I need all the help I can get, so I believe Work Skiff has a slight advantage.  Of course I lose about 10 SF of cockpit space and the associated buoyancy, but it may end up being worth it.  Work Skiff does bring up another issue though-sheer height and freeboard.  

      At 1400lbs displacement, my expected load, Work Skiff should draft about 4".  At the lowest point, this yields about 14" of freeboard-not a lot, in my opinion.  Increasing sheer height 6" across the board would give me 20" of freeboard and a 24" deep boat at the lowest point, which would give me peace of mind for two reasons.  First, the increased freeboard as we'll be out on lakes where the wind can kick up unexpectedly at times, and next, because I'll have little ones in the boat.  Higher sides will help to keep curious toddlers from toddling overboard.  

      This will definitely increase plywood usage, though the side planking is only nested with some components of the shoe, but I may have another idea for that (to be discussed later)-the transom and bulkheads will need to be higher of course.  What I am not sure about is whether or not this will affect the boat in unforeseen ways that I'm not experienced enough to anticipate.  For example, with a 6" increase in sheer height, how much more of a factor will the wind become?  I've heard many AF4 owners complain about wind when they're at anchor, but not so much when they're underway.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

      Thanks,

      Matthew
    • John Trussell
      Matthew- Every boat is a balancing act between conflicting desires. Some things to consider: Work Skiff has vertical (plumb) sides, so a five foot beam equals
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 24, 2014
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        Matthew-

         

        Every boat is a balancing act between conflicting desires. Some things to consider:

         

        Work Skiff has vertical (plumb) sides, so a five foot beam equals a 5 ft wide bottom. AF4 has flared sides and while I don’t have a set of AF4 plans, I think that AF4’s bottom is somewhat narrower than it’s six ft beam—somewhere between 5 ft and 5 ft 6 inches, so the loss of floor space is probably somewhat less than 10 sq ft and may be zero.

         

        There is an adage in risk management, “There is no sense in trying to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.” This is true of small children as well. Small children start by climbing out of their cribs (how high are crib sides?) and end up on the roof with a couple of friends seeing who can pee the farthest. Buy good PFD’s for your children and make sure they wear them. If they go overboard, they will float until you can pick them up and they may learn from the experience.

         

        Boats like Work Skiff and AF4 draw very little water and are subject to being blown around by the wind. This is particularly true at slow speed as dictated by a 9.9 hp engine. Increasing the sheer height by 25% will increase windage by 25%.

         

        Having said all that, one of the advantages of building your own boat is that you get to have the boat you think you want.

         

        Have fun.

         

        JohnT

         

         

         


        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
        Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:14 PM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?

         

         

        In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'.  With the HP restrictions on my lakes (9.9 Max) I need all the help I can get, so I believe Work Skiff has a slight advantage.  Of course I lose about 10 SF of cockpit space and the associated buoyancy, but it may end up being worth it.  Work Skiff does bring up another issue though-sheer height and freeboard.  

         

        At 1400lbs displacement, my expected load, Work Skiff should draft about 4".  At the lowest point, this yields about 14" of freeboard-not a lot, in my opinion.  Increasing sheer height 6" across the board would give me 20" of freeboard and a 24" deep boat at the lowest point, which would give me peace of mind for two reasons.  First, the increased freeboard as we'll be out on lakes where the wind can kick up unexpectedly at times, and next, because I'll have little ones in the boat.  Higher sides will help to keep curious toddlers from toddling overboard.  

         

        This will definitely increase plywood usage, though the side planking is only nested with some components of the shoe, but I may have another idea for that (to be discussed later)-the transom and bulkheads will need to be higher of course.  What I am not sure about is whether or not this will affect the boat in unforeseen ways that I'm not experienced enough to anticipate.  For example, with a 6" increase in sheer height, how much more of a factor will the wind become?  I've heard many AF4 owners complain about wind when they're at anchor, but not so much when they're underway.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

         

        Thanks,

         

        Matthew

      • Joseph Stromski
        No offense meant, but you re over-thinking this. The difference between these 2 boats is going to be extremely minimal at the end of the day. The difference
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 24, 2014
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          No offense meant, but you're over-thinking this. The difference between these 2 boats is going to be extremely minimal at the end of the day. The difference between both designs and pretty much any 18 foot flat iron skiff like a Brockaway is going to be pretty minimal. Make a decision, buy some plans, and make some sawdust. Of course, pondering the minutae is part of the fun of boat building....

          Best, 
          Joe


          On Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:02 PM, "'John Trussell' jtrussell2@... [bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


           
          Matthew-
           
          Every boat is a balancing act between conflicting desires. Some things to consider:
           
          Work Skiff has vertical (plumb) sides, so a five foot beam equals a 5 ft wide bottom. AF4 has flared sides and while I don’t have a set of AF4 plans, I think that AF4’s bottom is somewhat narrower than it’s six ft beam—somewhere between 5 ft and 5 ft 6 inches, so the loss of floor space is probably somewhat less than 10 sq ft and may be zero.
           
          There is an adage in risk management, “There is no sense in trying to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.” This is true of small children as well. Small children start by climbing out of their cribs (how high are crib sides?) and end up on the roof with a couple of friends seeing who can pee the farthest. Buy good PFD’s for your children and make sure they wear them. If they go overboard, they will float until you can pick them up and they may learn from the experience.
           
          Boats like Work Skiff and AF4 draw very little water and are subject to being blown around by the wind. This is particularly true at slow speed as dictated by a 9.9 hp engine. Increasing the sheer height by 25% will increase windage by 25%.
           
          Having said all that, one of the advantages of building your own boat is that you get to have the boat you think you want.
           
          Have fun.
           
          JohnT
           
           
           

          From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
          Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:14 PM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?
           
           
          In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'.  With the HP restrictions on my lakes (9.9 Max) I need all the help I can get, so I believe Work Skiff has a slight advantage.  Of course I lose about 10 SF of cockpit space and the associated buoyancy, but it may end up being worth it.  Work Skiff does bring up another issue though-sheer height and freeboard.  
           
          At 1400lbs displacement, my expected load, Work Skiff should draft about 4".  At the lowest point, this yields about 14" of freeboard-not a lot, in my opinion.  Increasing sheer height 6" across the board would give me 20" of freeboard and a 24" deep boat at the lowest point, which would give me peace of mind for two reasons.  First, the increased freeboard as we'll be out on lakes where the wind can kick up unexpectedly at times, and next, because I'll have little ones in the boat.  Higher sides will help to keep curious toddlers from toddling overboard.  
           
          This will definitely increase plywood usage, though the side planking is only nested with some components of the shoe, but I may have another idea for that (to be discussed later)-the transom and bulkheads will need to be higher of course.  What I am not sure about is whether or not this will affect the boat in unforeseen ways that I'm not experienced enough to anticipate.  For example, with a 6" increase in sheer height, how much more of a factor will the wind become?  I've heard many AF4 owners complain about wind when they're at anchor, but not so much when they're underway.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.
           
          Thanks,
           
          Matthew


        • phil.bolger
          Matthew, you could build as designed, and then add a coaming to her, fastened on the inside of her topsides-top (aka her sheer-clamp) to add another few inches
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 24, 2014
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            Matthew,
                you could build as designed, and then add a coaming to her, fastened on the inside of her topsides-top (aka her sheer-clamp) to add another few inches of height.
            You could then cut handhold-oval holes into that coaming - as many as you like - to match small and big hands.  For that I’d have a template to draw the outline with centric holes to mark the spot for the hole-saw, with two holes side-by-side to be connected via (steady) jig-saw cut to produce the oval cut-out.

            All this allows initial try-out with a plain unfinished big-height coaming.  Then you’ll drive her for a bit to know what you like, perhaps cut that coaming down to less, to then do the hand-holes and perhaps an edge-reinforcement of the coaming’s upper edge.
            That coaming could carry fishing-rod sockets, a grill, stand-up oar-sockets etc, etc.
            Perhaps some bows for a cover, or even sport a folding canvas top.
            Outside of that coaming, fastening through her rub-rail lamination outside her topsides, you should have just enough room of a few 6-8” cleats for ‘live-lines’, fendering etc.

            In contrasting color and some art-work perhaps, at least a molding-strip, that coaming could look quite well, in part depending upon how you’d do the ends – running forward against the bow, or terminate them at that little triangular piece, and how you’d do the after-ends over those boxes.
            This way you’d build her ‘as designed’, to then modify her via that added coaming to your needs.
            Finally, you’ll figure where the boat’s name and state’s registration number will go - topsides or on the coaming...
             
            Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
             
            Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:02 PM
            Subject: RE: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?
             
             

            Matthew-

            Every boat is a balancing act between conflicting desires. Some things to consider:

            Work Skiff has vertical (plumb) sides, so a five foot beam equals a 5 ft wide bottom. AF4 has flared sides and while I don’t have a set of AF4 plans, I think that AF4’s bottom is somewhat narrower than it’s six ft beam—somewhere between 5 ft and 5 ft 6 inches, so the loss of floor space is probably somewhat less than 10 sq ft and may be zero.

            There is an adage in risk management, “There is no sense in trying to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.” This is true of small children as well. Small children start by climbing out of their cribs (how high are crib sides?) and end up on the roof with a couple of friends seeing who can pee the farthest. Buy good PFD’s for your children and make sure they wear them. If they go overboard, they will float until you can pick them up and they may learn from the experience.

            Boats like Work Skiff and AF4 draw very little water and are subject to being blown around by the wind. This is particularly true at slow speed as dictated by a 9.9 hp engine. Increasing the sheer height by 25% will increase windage by 25%.

            Having said all that, one of the advantages of building your own boat is that you get to have the boat you think you want.

            Have fun.

            JohnT


            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
            Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:14 PM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?

             

            In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'.  With the HP restrictions on my lakes (9.9 Max) I need all the help I can get, so I believe Work Skiff has a slight advantage.  Of course I lose about 10 SF of cockpit space and the associated buoyancy, but it may end up being worth it.  Work Skiff does bring up another issue though-sheer height and freeboard. 

            At 1400lbs displacement, my expected load, Work Skiff should draft about 4".  At the lowest point, this yields about 14" of freeboard-not a lot, in my opinion.  Increasing sheer height 6" across the board would give me 20" of freeboard and a 24" deep boat at the lowest point, which would give me peace of mind for two reasons.  First, the increased freeboard as we'll be out on lakes where the wind can kick up unexpectedly at times, and next, because I'll have little ones in the boat.  Higher sides will help to keep curious toddlers from toddling overboard. 

            This will definitely increase plywood usage, though the side planking is only nested with some components of the shoe, but I may have another idea for that (to be discussed later)-the transom and bulkheads will need to be higher of course.  What I am not sure about is whether or not this will affect the boat in unforeseen ways that I'm not experienced enough to anticipate.  For example, with a 6" increase in sheer height, how much more of a factor will the wind become?  I've heard many AF4 owners complain about wind when they're at anchor, but not so much when they're underway.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

            Thanks,

            Matthew

          • Matthew Hall
            Susanne, John, and Joe, Thank you all for your feedback-especially the coaming idea-a simple, yet elegant solution, which of course is fitting for a Bolger
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 24, 2014
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              Susanne, John, and Joe,

              Thank you all for your feedback-especially the coaming idea-a simple, yet elegant solution, which of course is fitting for a Bolger designed boat.  No offense taken-sometimes I need to be told I'm overthinking things-I took to building my own boat because I was dissatisfied with what I could buy "off-the-shelf" so to speak, but now I suppose I've put pressure on myself to build exactly the right boat. Perhaps what I need to do is just sit back and realize that this will not be the last boat I build (because it won't be), so I should just build this one and learn from it.  

              Matthew


              On Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:57 PM, "philbolger@... [bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


               
              Matthew,
                  you could build as designed, and then add a coaming to her, fastened on the inside of her topsides-top (aka her sheer-clamp) to add another few inches of height.
              You could then cut handhold-oval holes into that coaming - as many as you like - to match small and big hands.  For that I’d have a template to draw the outline with centric holes to mark the spot for the hole-saw, with two holes side-by-side to be connected via (steady) jig-saw cut to produce the oval cut-out.

              All this allows initial try-out with a plain unfinished big-height coaming.  Then you’ll drive her for a bit to know what you like, perhaps cut that coaming down to less, to then do the hand-holes and perhaps an edge-reinforcement of the coaming’s upper edge.
              That coaming could carry fishing-rod sockets, a grill, stand-up oar-sockets etc, etc.
              Perhaps some bows for a cover, or even sport a folding canvas top.
              Outside of that coaming, fastening through her rub-rail lamination outside her topsides, you should have just enough room of a few 6-8” cleats for ‘live-lines’, fendering etc.

              In contrasting color and some art-work perhaps, at least a molding-strip, that coaming could look quite well, in part depending upon how you’d do the ends – running forward against the bow, or terminate them at that little triangular piece, and how you’d do the after-ends over those boxes.
              This way you’d build her ‘as designed’, to then modify her via that added coaming to your needs.
              Finally, you’ll figure where the boat’s name and state’s registration number will go - topsides or on the coaming...
               
              Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
               
              Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:02 PM
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?
               
               
              Matthew-
              Every boat is a balancing act between conflicting desires. Some things to consider:
              Work Skiff has vertical (plumb) sides, so a five foot beam equals a 5 ft wide bottom. AF4 has flared sides and while I don’t have a set of AF4 plans, I think that AF4’s bottom is somewhat narrower than it’s six ft beam—somewhere between 5 ft and 5 ft 6 inches, so the loss of floor space is probably somewhat less than 10 sq ft and may be zero.
              There is an adage in risk management, “There is no sense in trying to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.” This is true of small children as well. Small children start by climbing out of their cribs (how high are crib sides?) and end up on the roof with a couple of friends seeing who can pee the farthest. Buy good PFD’s for your children and make sure they wear them. If they go overboard, they will float until you can pick them up and they may learn from the experience.
              Boats like Work Skiff and AF4 draw very little water and are subject to being blown around by the wind. This is particularly true at slow speed as dictated by a 9.9 hp engine. Increasing the sheer height by 25% will increase windage by 25%.
              Having said all that, one of the advantages of building your own boat is that you get to have the boat you think you want.
              Have fun.
              JohnT

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
              Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:14 PM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?
               
              In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'.  With the HP restrictions on my lakes (9.9 Max) I need all the help I can get, so I believe Work Skiff has a slight advantage.  Of course I lose about 10 SF of cockpit space and the associated buoyancy, but it may end up being worth it.  Work Skiff does bring up another issue though-sheer height and freeboard. 
              At 1400lbs displacement, my expected load, Work Skiff should draft about 4".  At the lowest point, this yields about 14" of freeboard-not a lot, in my opinion.  Increasing sheer height 6" across the board would give me 20" of freeboard and a 24" deep boat at the lowest point, which would give me peace of mind for two reasons.  First, the increased freeboard as we'll be out on lakes where the wind can kick up unexpectedly at times, and next, because I'll have little ones in the boat.  Higher sides will help to keep curious toddlers from toddling overboard. 
              This will definitely increase plywood usage, though the side planking is only nested with some components of the shoe, but I may have another idea for that (to be discussed later)-the transom and bulkheads will need to be higher of course.  What I am not sure about is whether or not this will affect the boat in unforeseen ways that I'm not experienced enough to anticipate.  For example, with a 6" increase in sheer height, how much more of a factor will the wind become?  I've heard many AF4 owners complain about wind when they're at anchor, but not so much when they're underway.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.
              Thanks,
              Matthew


            • Leigh
              Now there some inspired thinking. The next boat will be better. I keep saying that , forty or fifty boats and kayaks later. Like they say , it s not the
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 24, 2014
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                Now there some inspired thinking. The next boat will be better. I keep saying that , forty or fifty boats and kayaks later. Like they say , it's not the destination, it's the voyage. Enjoy the building. 

                Leigh Ross

                484-464-1575 (C)



                On Jul 24, 2014, at 16:43, "Matthew Hall yotatruck91@... [bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                 

                Susanne, John, and Joe,

                Thank you all for your feedback-especially the coaming idea-a simple, yet elegant solution, which of course is fitting for a Bolger designed boat.  No offense taken-sometimes I need to be told I'm overthinking things-I took to building my own boat because I was dissatisfied with what I could buy "off-the-shelf" so to speak, but now I suppose I've put pressure on myself to build exactly the right boat. Perhaps what I need to do is just sit back and realize that this will not be the last boat I build (because it won't be), so I should just build this one and learn from it.  

                Matthew


                On Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:57 PM, "philbolger@... [bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                 
                Matthew,
                    you could build as designed, and then add a coaming to her, fastened on the inside of her topsides-top (aka her sheer-clamp) to add another few inches of height.
                You could then cut handhold-oval holes into that coaming - as many as you like - to match small and big hands.  For that I’d have a template to draw the outline with centric holes to mark the spot for the hole-saw, with two holes side-by-side to be connected via (steady) jig-saw cut to produce the oval cut-out.

                All this allows initial try-out with a plain unfinished big-height coaming.  Then you’ll drive her for a bit to know what you like, perhaps cut that coaming down to less, to then do the hand-holes and perhaps an edge-reinforcement of the coaming’s upper edge.
                That coaming could carry fishing-rod sockets, a grill, stand-up oar-sockets etc, etc.
                Perhaps some bows for a cover, or even sport a folding canvas top.
                Outside of that coaming, fastening through her rub-rail lamination outside her topsides, you should have just enough room of a few 6-8” cleats for ‘live-lines’, fendering etc.

                In contrasting color and some art-work perhaps, at least a molding-strip, that coaming could look quite well, in part depending upon how you’d do the ends – running forward against the bow, or terminate them at that little triangular piece, and how you’d do the after-ends over those boxes.
                This way you’d build her ‘as designed’, to then modify her via that added coaming to your needs.
                Finally, you’ll figure where the boat’s name and state’s registration number will go - topsides or on the coaming...
                 
                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F 
                 
                Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:02 PM
                Subject: RE: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?
                 
                 
                Matthew-
                Every boat is a balancing act between conflicting desires. Some things to consider:
                Work Skiff has vertical (plumb) sides, so a five foot beam equals a 5 ft wide bottom. AF4 has flared sides and while I don’t have a set of AF4 plans, I think that AF4’s bottom is somewhat narrower than it’s six ft beam—somewhere between 5 ft and 5 ft 6 inches, so the loss of floor space is probably somewhat less than 10 sq ft and may be zero.
                There is an adage in risk management, “There is no sense in trying to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.” This is true of small children as well. Small children start by climbing out of their cribs (how high are crib sides?) and end up on the roof with a couple of friends seeing who can pee the farthest. Buy good PFD’s for your children and make sure they wear them. If they go overboard, they will float until you can pick them up and they may learn from the experience.
                Boats like Work Skiff and AF4 draw very little water and are subject to being blown around by the wind. This is particularly true at slow speed as dictated by a 9.9 hp engine. Increasing the sheer height by 25% will increase windage by 25%.
                Having said all that, one of the advantages of building your own boat is that you get to have the boat you think you want.
                Have fun.
                JohnT

                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
                Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:14 PM
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [bolger] Raise sheer height of Work Skiff?
                 
                In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'.  With the HP restrictions on my lakes (9.9 Max) I need all the help I can get, so I believe Work Skiff has a slight advantage.  Of course I lose about 10 SF of cockpit space and the associated buoyancy, but it may end up being worth it.  Work Skiff does bring up another issue though-sheer height and freeboard. 
                At 1400lbs displacement, my expected load, Work Skiff should draft about 4".  At the lowest point, this yields about 14" of freeboard-not a lot, in my opinion.  Increasing sheer height 6" across the board would give me 20" of freeboard and a 24" deep boat at the lowest point, which would give me peace of mind for two reasons.  First, the increased freeboard as we'll be out on lakes where the wind can kick up unexpectedly at times, and next, because I'll have little ones in the boat.  Higher sides will help to keep curious toddlers from toddling overboard. 
                This will definitely increase plywood usage, though the side planking is only nested with some components of the shoe, but I may have another idea for that (to be discussed later)-the transom and bulkheads will need to be higher of course.  What I am not sure about is whether or not this will affect the boat in unforeseen ways that I'm not experienced enough to anticipate.  For example, with a 6" increase in sheer height, how much more of a factor will the wind become?  I've heard many AF4 owners complain about wind when they're at anchor, but not so much when they're underway.  I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.
                Thanks,
                Matthew


              • John Kohnen
                AF4 Casa is quite a bit narrower than 6 beam at and near the bottom, probably 5 wide on the bottom, since the regular AF4 is 5 wide at the sheer and
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 25, 2014
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                  AF4 Casa is quite a bit narrower than 6' beam at and near the bottom,
                  probably 5' wide on the bottom, since the regular AF4 is 5' wide at the
                  sheer and probably 4' wide at the bottom, for efficient plywood use. Built
                  as drawn, the AF4 Casa will be a lot lighter than a Work Skiff, and should
                  perform better with 9.9 hp.

                  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/af4casa/

                  I don't understand why you want to make a morphodite Work Skiff/AF4 Casa.
                  <shrug> They're both Good Boats, in their different ways. Both designers
                  knew what they were doing. Do you? I don't mean that as an insult, but I
                  am puzzled why so many amateur (and even professional!) builders think
                  they know better than the designer. <sigh> At least a relatively simple
                  boat like a Work Skiff of AF4 Casa won't be a terribly expensive or time
                  consuming disaster if your "improvements" don't work... (I'm all for
                  experimenting with design on cheap little boats). Why not just build one
                  or the other?

                  I think an AF4 Casa built to the plans would work just fine for your use.

                  On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:14:28 -0700, Matthew H wrote:

                  > In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought
                  > about the beam to length ratios of both boats. Work Skiff is 18' x 5'
                  > whereas AF4 is 18' x 6'. ...

                  --
                  John (jkohnen@...)
                  I must say I find television very educational. The minute somebody turns
                  it on, I go to the library and read a good book. (Groucho Marx)
                • Mark Albanese
                  And I wouldn t leave off Jim s wonderful diy folding canopy. On Jul 25, 2014 11:58 AM, John Kohnen jhkohnen@boat-links.com [bolger]
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 25, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment

                    And I wouldn't leave off Jim's wonderful diy folding canopy.

                    On Jul 25, 2014 11:58 AM, "'John Kohnen' jhkohnen@... [bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    AF4 Casa is quite a bit narrower than 6' beam at and near the bottom,
                    probably 5' wide on the bottom, since the regular AF4 is 5' wide at the
                    sheer and probably 4' wide at the bottom, for efficient plywood use. Built
                    as drawn, the AF4 Casa will be a lot lighter than a Work Skiff, and should
                    perform better with 9.9 hp.

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/af4casa/

                    I don't understand why you want to make a morphodite Work Skiff/AF4 Casa.
                    <shrug> They're both Good Boats, in their different ways. Both designers
                    knew what they were doing. Do you? I don't mean that as an insult, but I
                    am puzzled why so many amateur (and even professional!) builders think
                    they know better than the designer. <sigh> At least a relatively simple
                    boat like a Work Skiff of AF4 Casa won't be a terribly expensive or time
                    consuming disaster if your "improvements" don't work... (I'm all for
                    experimenting with design on cheap little boats). Why not just build one
                    or the other?

                    I think an AF4 Casa built to the plans would work just fine for your use.

                    On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:14:28 -0700, Matthew H wrote:

                    > In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought
                    > about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5'
                    > whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'. ...

                    --
                    John (jkohnen@...)
                    I must say I find television very educational. The minute somebody turns
                    it on, I go to the library and read a good book. (Groucho Marx)


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                  • Matthew Hall
                    All good points, and again, no offense taken.  The reason I had gone down this road in the first place was because Jim does mention that stiffening up the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 25, 2014
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                      All good points, and again, no offense taken.  The reason I had gone down this road in the first place was because Jim does mention that stiffening up the bottom of AF4 Casa with a shoe of some type would be a good idea.  Right about that time I had discovered the plans for Work Skiff, so it kind of clicked.  Then I started thinking about the fact that Work Skiff was narrower (or maybe it's not) and leaned toward that a bit, but was a little off put by the lack of freeboard as compared to AF4 Casa.  So for me it comes down to AF4 Casa with a shoe (which is kind of recommended by the designer) or Work Skiff with a raised sheer height of some kind, whether a coaming or otherwise.  


                      On Friday, July 25, 2014 2:57 PM, "'John Kohnen' jhkohnen@... [bolger]" <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      AF4 Casa is quite a bit narrower than 6' beam at and near the bottom, 
                      probably 5' wide on the bottom, since the regular AF4 is 5' wide at the 
                      sheer and probably 4' wide at the bottom, for efficient plywood use. Built 
                      as drawn, the AF4 Casa will be a lot lighter than a Work Skiff, and should 
                      perform better with 9.9 hp.

                      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/af4casa/

                      I don't understand why you want to make a morphodite Work Skiff/AF4 Casa. 
                      <shrug> They're both Good Boats, in their different ways. Both designers 
                      knew what they were doing. Do you? I don't mean that as an insult, but I 
                      am puzzled why so many amateur (and even professional!) builders think 
                      they know better than the designer. <sigh> At least a relatively simple 
                      boat like a Work Skiff of AF4 Casa won't be a terribly expensive or time 
                      consuming disaster if your "improvements" don't work... (I'm all for 
                      experimenting with design on cheap little boats). Why not just build one 
                      or the other?

                      I think an AF4 Casa built to the plans would work just fine for your use.

                      On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:14:28 -0700, Matthew H wrote:

                      > In pouring over the designs of Work Skiff and AF4 further, I thought 
                      > about the beam to length ratios of both boats.  Work Skiff is 18' x  5' 
                      > whereas AF4 is 18'  x  6'. ...


                      --
                      John (jkohnen@...)
                      I must say I find television very educational. The minute somebody turns 
                      it on, I go to the library and read a good book. (Groucho Marx)


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                      Bolger rules!!!
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                      - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
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                      - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      - Unsubscribe:  bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    • c.ruzer
                      Hey, yeah, lengthened six foot I see that FBOC similarity and usefulness of specs and construction procedure... How about 24 campjohn ( I think it campgarvey
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 25, 2014
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                        Hey, yeah, lengthened six foot I see that FBOC similarity and usefulness of specs and construction procedure... How about 24' campjohn ( I think it campgarvey ) done similarly (mid-cabined), ... more air and spray trapped and pushed down at bow to do the hover thing; and probably no less capable in chop, maybe even more so?
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