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Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?

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  • brianincorv
    I was looking at Payson s chapter in BTNIB on the stretched light dory, and was wondering about whether a small auxiliary sprit sail would be do-able. I know
    Message 1 of 20 , May 22, 2014
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      I was looking at Payson's chapter in BTNIB on the stretched light dory, and was wondering about whether a small auxiliary sprit sail would be do-able.  I know what Bolger thought about trying to sail one of these, so I want to make it clear that I'm not thinking in terms of making the dory into a sailboat!  I'm just talking about a small (say, 50 square feet or less), sprit or other sail, combined with a steering oar, for use in when there's a nice following wind.  It seems to me that a boat that rows as well as one of these stretched dories seems to, would be better off only using a sail off the wind anyway.  Of course, in the U.S., this leads to title and registration requirements in just about any state.

       

      So: no center, dagger, lee or any other board.  No rudder.  Just a little simple rig for downwind. For upwind, one would probably make better progress by rowing while the small sailboats are tacking.  Kayaks sometimes use small sails downwind.

       

      What do you think?

    • John Trussell
      Oughtred and Gartside have added small sails to boats which are primarily rowing boats and I know of a couple of people who cruise in rowing boats and use a
      Message 2 of 20 , May 23, 2014
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        Oughtred and Gartside have added small sails to boats which are primarily rowing boats and I know of a couple of people who cruise in rowing boats and use a small sail for going down wind. Given that rowing boats tend to have minimal power to carry sail (which is a nice wat of saying that they have very little initial stability) and given that sailing down wind can lead to a rhythmic roll, I would be inclined to go with a small balanced lug sail which is “self vanging “ and gybes very gently.

         

        Have fun.

         

        JohnT

         


        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
        Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:31 PM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?

         

         

        I was looking at Payson's chapter in BTNIB on the stretched light dory, and was wondering about whether a small auxiliary sprit sail would be do-able.  I know what Bolger thought about trying to sail one of these, so I want to make it clear that I'm not thinking in terms of making the dory into a sailboat!  I'm just talking about a small (say, 50 square feet or less), sprit or other sail, combined with a steering oar, for use in when there's a nice following wind.  It seems to me that a boat that rows as well as one of these stretched dories seems to, would be better off only using a sail off the wind anyway.  Of course, in the U.S. , this leads to title and registration requirements in just about any state.

         

        So: no center, dagger, lee or any other board.  No rudder.  Just a little simple rig for downwind. For upwind, one would probably make better progress by rowing while the small sailboats are tacking.  Kayaks sometimes use small sails downwind.

         

        What do you think?

      • Michael Childs
        Without a skeg or something below, it would invite broaching in a following sea. I d leave well enough alone. If you want to do it, who is to stop you?  
        Message 3 of 20 , May 23, 2014
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          Without a skeg or something below, it would invite broaching in a following sea. I'd leave well enough alone. If you want to do it, who is to stop you?
           
          Michael Childs
          415 828 9663 - 626 799 9796
          www.michaelchilds.com
          michael_v_childs@...
        • John Trussell
          The Long Dory has a skeg. JohnT _____ From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:21 AM To:
          Message 4 of 20 , May 23, 2014
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            The Long Dory has a skeg.

             

            JohnT

             


            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
            Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:21 AM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?

             

             

            Without a skeg or something below, it would invite broaching in a following sea. I'd leave well enough alone. If you want to do it, who is to stop you?

             

            Michael Childs
            415 828 9663 - 626 799 9796
            www.michaelchilds.com
            michael_v_childs@...

          • phil.bolger
            Hello all, even though I can’t lay my hands on a matching illustration, the ‘notch’ on many dories’ transom top is there to lay an oar into it to then
            Message 5 of 20 , May 23, 2014
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              Hello all,
                   even though I can’t lay my hands on a matching illustration, the ‘notch’ on many dories’ transom top is there to lay an oar into it to then act as a rudder, even more effective than a skeg could be.
              Of course, this thinking and doing was established in the age of dory-fishing, usually with two fishermen aboard, and typically on heavier more burdensome working dories.
              How exactly the ergonomics would work out on the Long Light Dory might well depend upon whether she’d be sailed solo or ‘with crew’.
              Initial driveway-testing should help settle that question, with a subsequent sail to confirm or .. well...

              Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
               
              Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:38 AM
              Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?
               
               

              The Long Dory has a skeg.

              JohnT


              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ]
              Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:21 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?

               

              Without a skeg or something below, it would invite broaching in a following sea. I'd leave well enough alone. If you want to do it, who is to stop you?

              Michael Childs
              415 828 9663 - 626 799 9796
              www.michaelchilds.com
              michael_v_childs@...

            • brianincorv
              Thank you for the replies. I misattributed in my original post. The chapter on the Stretched Dory is in Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson .
              Message 6 of 20 , May 23, 2014
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                Thank you for the replies.  I misattributed in my original post.  The chapter on the Stretched Dory is in "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson".
              • Pat
                I made the stretched dory some years ago, and used is for several years on a river. Just for exercise. I found that in a breeze because of its large bow it
                Message 7 of 20 , May 23, 2014
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                  I made the stretched dory some years ago, and used is for several years on a river. Just for exercise. I found that in a breeze because of its large bow it would be forced off the wind. The boat has allot of overhangs ...looks beautiful. It would settle down with another person in the bow seat.
                  If I would use it for sail I would make it into an out rigger. For purely downwind sailing just a square sale would be ok , but were do you store the mast? Perhaps a kite would be better alternative.
                  I always thought 2 of these hulls would make a very nice catamaran.

                  warm regards
                  Pat
                • arne_kverneland_norway
                  Hi there, Fitting a little rig to that dory sounds like a good idea, but I too would have considered fitting a single outrigger. I once made a super-simple
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 31, 2014
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                     Hi there,


                    Fitting a little rig to that dory sounds like a good idea, but I too would have considered fitting a single outrigger.


                    I once made a super-simple aux. sail for a 15ft row-boat. If you open the link below and scroll to p.6-7, you'll see what I mean. The position and rake of the mast was adjusted until the boat steered with just an oar. Besides being a very close-winded rig, it also appeared to heel the boat over less than other rigs I had tried before (Bermuda, sprit, gaff).

                    Have a look:

                    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49284570/Arne%20Kverneland%27s%20Junk%20Rig%20Files/The%20poor%20man%27s%20Ljungsr%C3%B6m%20Rig%2C%20ver.%2020110722.pdf


                    Good luck!

                    Arne Kverneland,

                    Stavanger, Norway

                  • otter55806
                    That is one long link, but I copied and pasted it and it did not work! Got an error page. Bob
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 2 6:36 AM
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                      That is one long link, but I copied and pasted it and it did not work! Got an error page.
                      Bob
                    • arne_kverneland_norway
                      Funny that ( if you are referring to the link I showed you). I have an ordinary Windows 7 pc, and the link forks for me. The file is a PDF-file. What pc are
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 2 11:37 AM
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                        Funny that ( if you are referring to the link I showed you). I have an ordinary Windows 7 pc, and the link forks for me. The file is a PDF-file.


                        What pc are you using?


                        Arne Kverneland


                        PS: Maybe you could copy my whole message to your pc and se if the link can be made to work from there.


                      • otter55806
                        This is even more strange. When I went to reply it now showed the link as a blue hyperlink that I could click on without copying and pasting, but only on the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 3 6:26 AM
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                          This is even more strange. When I went to reply it now showed the link as a blue hyperlink that I could click on without copying and pasting, but only on the reply page, not in my email. Yahoo has been messed up. Anyway, clicked on that and it brought me to your site.
                          That is an interesting sail with full length battens running more or less parallel to the mast. No shrouds or stays or boom would make it quick to set up. If I ever get down with my house work this summer, between the rain, I will have to look into this further.
                          Always nice to take a look at something different:)
                          Bob
                        • Andrew Porter
                          I ve noticed similar behavior with Hotmail also. Links won t work and photos won t show until I go to reply or forward. To: bolger@yahoogroups.com From:
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 3 7:44 AM
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                            I've noticed similar behavior with Hotmail also. Links won't work and photos won't show until I go to  reply or forward.


                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 06:26:25 -0700
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?

                             
                            This is even more strange. When I went to reply it now showed the link as a blue hyperlink that I could click on without copying and pasting, but only on the reply page, not in my email. Yahoo has been messed up. Anyway, clicked on that and it brought me to your site.
                            That is an interesting sail with full length battens running more or less parallel to the mast. No shrouds or stays or boom would make it quick to set up. If I ever get down with my house work this summer, between the rain, I will have to look into this further.
                            Always nice to take a look at something different:)
                            Bob
                          • Bente Støa
                            Bente Støa. May be it was too long. Thank you anyway. 2014-06-02 15:36 GMT+02:00 otter55806@yahoo.com [bolger]
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 3 2:32 PM
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                              Bente Støa.  May be it was too long.
                              Thank you anyway.


                              2014-06-02 15:36 GMT+02:00 otter55806@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>:
                               

                              That is one long link, but I copied and pasted it and it did not work! Got an error page.
                              Bob


                            • Bente Støa
                              EasyNote *TE69KB series, a pb pc. 2014-06-02 20:37 GMT+02:00 a-kve2@online.no [bolger]
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 3 2:34 PM
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                                EasyNote *TE69KB series, a pb pc.


                                2014-06-02 20:37 GMT+02:00 a-kve2@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>:
                                 

                                Funny that ( if you are referring to the link I showed you). I have an ordinary Windows 7 pc, and the link forks for me. The file is a PDF-file.


                                What pc are you using?


                                Arne Kverneland


                                PS: Maybe you could copy my whole message to your pc and se if the link can be made to work from there.



                              • Bente Støa
                                Bente Støa. I feel having 10 tumbs and everything goes wrong. At the same time, the ideas to getting it better increases. Now the first task is laying, ready
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 3 2:37 PM
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                                  Bente Støa.  I feel having 10 tumbs and everything goes wrong.
                                  At the same time, the ideas to getting it better increases.
                                  Now the first task is laying, ready to start.
                                  Took me 3 days to come that far.
                                  Nice you were directed to me.
                                  I am the newest sso far, and this is my first try.


                                  2014-06-03 15:26 GMT+02:00 otter55806@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>:
                                   

                                  This is even more strange. When I went to reply it now showed the link as a blue hyperlink that I could click on without copying and pasting, but only on the reply page, not in my email. Yahoo has been messed up. Anyway, clicked on that and it brought me to your site.
                                  That is an interesting sail with full length battens running more or less parallel to the mast. No shrouds or stays or boom would make it quick to set up. If I ever get down with my house work this summer, between the rain, I will have to look into this further.
                                  Always nice to take a look at something different:)
                                  Bob


                                • Bente Støa
                                  It is the new security. Not secure at all. from Bente Støa 2014-06-03 16:44 GMT+02:00 Andrew Porter andrewaporter@hotmail.com [bolger] ... It is the new
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 3 2:38 PM
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                                    It is the new security.
                                    Not secure at all.
                                    from Bente Støa


                                    2014-06-03 16:44 GMT+02:00 Andrew Porter andrewaporter@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>:
                                     

                                    I've noticed similar behavior with Hotmail also. Links won't work and photos won't show until I go to  reply or forward.


                                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 06:26:25 -0700
                                    Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger Long Light Dory: auxiliary sail?


                                     
                                    This is even more strange. When I went to reply it now showed the link as a blue hyperlink that I could click on without copying and pasting, but only on the reply page, not in my email. Yahoo has been messed up. Anyway, clicked on that and it brought me to your site.
                                    That is an interesting sail with full length battens running more or less parallel to the mast. No shrouds or stays or boom would make it quick to set up. If I ever get down with my house work this summer, between the rain, I will have to look into this further.
                                    Always nice to take a look at something different:)
                                    Bob


                                  • arne_kverneland_norway
                                    Hi again. Now I used a tool (Google URL-shortener) to shorten the link to that «Poor Man’s Ljungstrøm Rig» PDF file. I hope that it will work; I have
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 5 2:38 AM
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                                      Hi again.

                                      Now I used a tool (Google URL-shortener) to shorten the link to that «Poor Man’s Ljungstrøm Rig» PDF file. I hope that it will work; I have never tried it before.

                                       

                                      http://goo.gl/Nu6nOu

                                       

                                      Cheers,

                                       Arne Kverneland, Stavanger

                                    • Mike Allison
                                      Down loaded fine! Mike Allison (North of Kansas City Mo, USA) E-Mail: mysloop@gmail.com ... Down loaded fine! Mike Allison (North of Kansas City Mo, USA)
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 5 3:04 AM
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                                        Down loaded fine!
                                        Mike Allison   (North of Kansas City Mo,  USA)
                                        
                                        E-Mail: mysloop@...
                                        On 6/5/2014 4:38 AM, a-kve2@... [bolger] wrote:
                                         

                                        Hi again.

                                        Now I used a tool (Google URL-shortener) to shorten the link to that «Poor Man’s Ljungstrøm Rig» PDF file. I hope that it will work; I have never tried it before.

                                         

                                        http://goo.gl/Nu6nOu



                                      • Bente Støa
                                        I downloaded too. All of it. Seems to be a good link, and I sat looking at boats a long time last time. Nopw I just downloaded. Thank you. 2014-06-05 11:38
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 5 9:00 AM
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                                          I downloaded too.  All of it.
                                          Seems to be a good link, and I sat looking at boats a long time last time.
                                          Nopw I just downloaded.
                                          Thank you.


                                          2014-06-05 11:38 GMT+02:00 a-kve2@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>:
                                           

                                          Hi again.

                                          Now I used a tool (Google URL-shortener) to shorten the link to that «Poor Man’s Ljungstrøm Rig» PDF file. I hope that it will work; I have never tried it before.

                                           

                                          http://goo.gl/Nu6nOu

                                           

                                          Cheers,

                                           Arne Kverneland, Stavanger


                                        • Bente Støa
                                          I just nodded at the link you gave. But your note were removed from facebook, or I could not get in contact. Very strange, since sometimes facebook are the
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 5 10:06 AM
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                                            I just nodded at the link you gave.
                                            But your note were removed from facebook, or I could not
                                            get in contact.
                                            Very strange, since sometimes facebook are the only working.
                                            You can look up You Tube and ask for tilapia, as I did the first time.
                                            After looking up your own page.
                                            That could be on the Bolgerpage.
                                            At my last homesite, I had problems with facebook.
                                            they wanted me to be another pc.
                                            I asked for contact and said I was not an ekstrapc on my own pc.
                                            Several times, until they recognised me as the owner.
                                            Probably the norwegian security that now goes against everyone
                                            calling groups.
                                            I got that myself, no contact with groups abroad - that is USA,
                                            since I got several fron easten europa.
                                            Singles from USA are ok,
                                            so I guess it is done automaticly.
                                            I make a fuzz every time this happens, just to make it unpleasant to do it.
                                            What happens are that commercial overflow and a lot of pages goes outside each other.
                                            That stops, and are there again now.
                                            I lay down the page I use, and remove the others.
                                            You may have a fake page.
                                            You also can nodd mildly on the browser, so you see every page opened
                                            as small pictures at the bottom.
                                            Sometimes I nodd, so the frontpage come up, but If I manage,
                                             I remove every page eksept your choosen frontpage.
                                            This only happened with one free play on my old pc, and every free play has changed
                                            on Windows 8.
                                            We have a free option with many online- games.
                                            Most of them are not free at all, you have to give too many personal informations -
                                            And they are infected.
                                            I like to take a kabal or some simple plays when I wayt for this or that -
                                            like an answer to this conversation.
                                            i like those changing, and the last I found and play, may have brought back
                                            the overwhelming commercials.
                                            I am tired of making fuzz of everything, but am stubborn enough
                                            to remove every unpleasant fake frontpage or unwanted commercial.
                                            I have no money on the net, but let myself tempt once.
                                            A free Nikeshoe, was one free week of ekstra offers.
                                            I changed the bankcard after paying 19 kroner, and commercials flowed into my email.
                                            That is some months ago, and I still get them.
                                            Every day.
                                            I put them to spam.
                                            You may have done some similar.
                                            Make a fuzz as long you want, and dont mind it, when you dont want to.
                                            Bente Støa


                                            2014-06-05 18:00 GMT+02:00 Bente Støa <bentestoa@...>:
                                            I downloaded too.  All of it.
                                            Seems to be a good link, and I sat looking at boats a long time last time.
                                            Nopw I just downloaded.
                                            Thank you.


                                            2014-06-05 11:38 GMT+02:00 a-kve2@... [bolger] <bolger@yahoogroups.com>:

                                             

                                            Hi again.

                                            Now I used a tool (Google URL-shortener) to shorten the link to that «Poor Man’s Ljungstrøm Rig» PDF file. I hope that it will work; I have never tried it before.

                                             

                                            http://goo.gl/Nu6nOu

                                             

                                            Cheers,

                                             Arne Kverneland, Stavanger



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