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Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

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  • Leigh
    Deck paint,I use www. ipaint.us. They have a nice range of BlueWater Marine paint. I use the single part polyurethane with their non skid additive. It s a good
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 3, 2013
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      Deck paint,I use www. ipaint.us. They have a nice range of BlueWater Marine paint. I use the single part polyurethane with their non skid additive. It's a good price and works well, just the rot amount of stick without being harsh on the feet. 

      Leigh Ross 

      484 464 1575 C
      610  624 1730 H


      On Sep 3, 2013, at 9:52, <a.c.l.yen@...> wrote:

       

      I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).


      From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.

      But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  

      What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.

      Andrew

    • Jed Lavoie
      A little extra work now saves you a ton of extra work later.  Epoxy, fiberglass and paint.  The only thing I use Dynel for is abrasion resistance. 
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 3, 2013
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        A little extra work now saves you a ton of extra work later.  Epoxy, fiberglass and paint.  The only thing I use Dynel for is abrasion resistance.  Fiberglass is stronger structurally and lighter since it requires less resin.

        Jed




        From: "a.c.l.yen@..." <a.c.l.yen@...>
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:52 AM
        Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

         
        I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

        From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.

        But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  

        What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.

        Andrew


      • phil.bolger
        On 39’x7’5x1’x 225hp SACPAS-3 all outside surfaces were glassed with 10-oz cloth set in epoxy, plus coats of oil-based paint. Local commercial repair
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 3, 2013
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          On 39’x7’5x1’x 225hp SACPAS-3 all outside surfaces were glassed with 10-oz cloth set in epoxy, plus coats of oil-based paint.
          Local commercial repair yard doing steel draggers, tugs, wooden schooners etc. suggest using hard-edged sand-blasting ‘shot’ to sprinkle salt-shaker-fashion into the wet-paint, with another coat helping to keep the ‘traction’ in place.  Avoid that non-slip around cleats and on-deck moving lines as both skin and fibers will be abraded...

          Ditto on Jed’s glass-cloth comment versus Dynel.
          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
           
          Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:02 AM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit
           
           

          Good question.
          After all this work, I’d go conservative.
          Glass-cloth in epoxy, plus paint (with non-slip in wet paint plus another coat), all for physical wear and protection from the effects of sun/heat, whether afloat or on wheels.
          Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
           
          Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:52 AM
          Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit
           
           

          I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

           
          From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.
           
          But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar. 
           
          What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.
           
          Andrew
        • Mason Smith
          I don’t mean to argue with those who advise glassing plywood in deck and cockpit areas, but I do want to register the advantages of not doing so. Let’s
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 3, 2013
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            I don’t mean to argue with those who advise glassing plywood in deck and cockpit areas, but I do want to register the advantages of not doing so. Let’s remember the savings in epoxy and fiberglass and time and labor and weight. Let’s remember that only fir plywood checks badly. Oukoume doesn’t and of course still better mahogany plywoods don’t. Let’s remember that plywood glassed on both sides can’t get rid of moisture and will rot fast f it does get wet, and that moisture will follow the grain in laminates of plywood a long long way. Let’s remember that paint breathes vapor pretty freely, while it does seal and protect against wear and water. In short, for most small plywood trailer-sailers and other dry-sailed plywood boats, paint is fine for cockpits and decks. I would only prime with epoxy after sanding and shaping fillets and while giving them and the tapes their final coat of epoxy. I leave off what glass I can, even topsides, and I use very light glass anywhere I do use it, mainly to guarantee a uniform layer of epoxy, except on bottoms.

             

            These observations come from a builder who finds modern “composite” boatbuilding, with plywood and fiberglass and epoxy, almost too slow and laborious! Oh for joints put together once and fastened and done with, so neat and clean! Just think how fast you could build a dory, traditionally. Paint it and go rowing, while the rest of us Instant Boatmakers are still coating and grinding and laying on glass.

             

            Dynel, by the way, as we’ve used it on Reuben’s restorations of the Sound Inter Clubs, for decks and cabin-tops, is more texture than I’d want, myself. A little sand in the paint, as Susanne suggests, over glass, would be enough, and save weight and money.

             

            De gustibus non est disputandum.  Mason

             

            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Lavoie
            Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:49 AM
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

             

             

            A little extra work now saves you a ton of extra work later.  Epoxy, fiberglass and paint.  The only thing I use Dynel for is abrasion resistance.  Fiberglass is stronger structurally and lighter since it requires less resin.

            Jed

             

             


            From: "a.c.l.yen@..." <a.c.l.yen@...>
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:52 AM
            Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

             

             

            I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

             

            From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.

             

            But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  

             

            What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.

             

            Andrew

             

          • andrew_kieren
            I have another smaller trailer boat that doesn t get looked after as well as it should (I spend my spare time building the Chebacco, not maintaining the old
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 3, 2013
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              I have another smaller trailer boat that doesn't get looked after as well as it should (I spend my spare time building the Chebacco, not maintaining the old boat the Chebacco will eventually replace.)  I have found the foredeck suffers the most from weather and damage, so I will go with glass and epoxy on the deck and in the cockpit.


              I have acquired some tins of Dulux Aquanamel http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/trim/product-detail?product=2184 which I intend to use on the deck and in the cockpit.  It is water based but higher gloss and hardness than your average acrylic paint.  It is used for doors and trim, inside and outside houses. I have noticed that the acrylic paint on my Cartopper  and on my Eureka Canoe tends to rub off where it comes in contact with the trailer etc.  Hopefully the Aquanamel will provide the benefits of acrylic with the hardness of an oil based paint.


              Any thoughts or experience on this sort of paint?


              Andrew




              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <goodboat@...> wrote:

              I don’t mean to argue with those who advise glassing plywood in deck and cockpit areas, but I do want to register the advantages of not doing so. Let’s remember the savings in epoxy and fiberglass and time and labor and weight. Let’s remember that only fir plywood checks badly. Oukoume doesn’t and of course still better mahogany plywoods don’t. Let’s remember that plywood glassed on both sides can’t get rid of moisture and will rot fast f it does get wet, and that moisture will follow the grain in laminates of plywood a long long way. Let’s remember that paint breathes vapor pretty freely, while it does seal and protect against wear and water. In short, for most small plywood trailer-sailers and other dry-sailed plywood boats, paint is fine for cockpits and decks. I would only prime with epoxy after sanding and shaping fillets and while giving them and the tapes their final coat of epoxy. I leave off what glass I can, even topsides, and I use very light glass anywhere I do use it, mainly to guarantee a uniform layer of epoxy, except on bottoms.

               

              These observations come from a builder who finds modern “composite” boatbuilding, with plywood and fiberglass and epoxy, almost too slow and laborious! Oh for joints put together once and fastened and done with, so neat and clean! Just think how fast you could build a dory, traditionally. Paint it and go rowing, while the rest of us Instant Boatmakers are still coating and grinding and laying on glass.

               

              Dynel, by the way, as we’ve used it on Reuben’s restorations of the Sound Inter Clubs, for decks and cabin-tops, is more texture than I’d want, myself. A little sand in the paint, as Susanne suggests, over glass, would be enough, and save weight and money.

               

              De gustibus non est disputandum.  Mason

               

              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Lavoie
              Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:49 AM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

               

               

              A little extra work now saves you a ton of extra work later.  Epoxy, fiberglass and paint.  The only thing I use Dynel for is abrasion resistance.  Fiberglass is stronger structurally and lighter since it requires less resin.

              Jed

               

               


              From: "a.c.l.yen@..." <a.c.l.yen@...>
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:52 AM
              Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

               

               

              I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

               

              From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.

               

              But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  

               

              What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.

               

              Andrew

               

            • proaconstrictor
              I have never regretted glassing anything. I remember the first large project I did when I read that the whole boat inside and out, that was to the weather,
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 4, 2013
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                I have never regretted glassing anything.  I remember the first large project I did when I read that the whole boat inside and out, that was to the weather, needed to be glassed.  I was outraged, what excess.  But it all reduces maintenance in the long run.  Detailing is very important though, one needs to be sure there aren't any penetrations, or potential for zippers.  It isn't necesarry to go heavy on many boats, you aren't going to let your wear go through the paint.  So 4 oz is normally ample, use good epoxy.  Good epoxy, glass, and ok ply work extremely well together, and are worries about more flexible epoxies and clothes are misplaced.  There are plenty of 40 year old plus boats out there without any problems.



                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

                From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.

                But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  

                What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.

                Andrew
              • proaconstrictor
                I had some luck keeping my boat covered, until I moved it near the water. Brand new tarp didn t last the first month with the gusts we get across our bay. And
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 4, 2013
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                  I had some luck keeping my boat covered, until I moved it near the water.  Brand new tarp didn't last the first  month with the gusts we get across our bay.  And we are sheltered compared to many.

                   



                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

                  From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.

                  But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  

                  What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.

                  Andrew
                • frank raisin
                  stored a small ply trailer sailer under a large plastic tarp for a year and had zero success in stopping water puddling in the boat no matter how i arranged
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                    stored a small ply trailer sailer under a large plastic tarp for a year and had zero success in stopping water puddling in the boat no matter how i arranged the tarp.  if nothing else, condensation in damp weather - even overnight dew -dripped off the contact points into the boat.
                    i now store it under a FREE-STANDING plastic tent (what is herabouts called an "igloo") and the airspace around seems to evaporate more water than gets in (though the salt spray residues sometimes gather water drops)
                     
                    rgds, frank
                     

                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    From: a.c.l.yen@...
                    Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 19:22:15 -0700
                    Subject: [bolger] RE: Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit



                    I have another smaller trailer boat that doesn't get looked after as well as it should (I spend my spare time building the Chebacco, not maintaining the old boat the Chebacco will eventually replace.)  I have found the foredeck suffers the most from weather and damage, so I will go with glass and epoxy on the deck and in the cockpit.


                    I have acquired some tins of Dulux Aquanamel http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/trim/product-detail?product=2184 which I intend to use on the deck and in the cockpit.  It is water based but higher gloss and hardness than your average acrylic paint.  It is used for doors and trim, inside and outside houses. I have noticed that the acrylic paint on my Cartopper  and on my Eureka Canoe tends to rub off where it comes in contact with the trailer etc.  Hopefully the Aquanamel will provide the benefits of acrylic with the hardness of an oil based paint.


                    Any thoughts or experience on this sort of paint?


                    Andrew




                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <goodboat@...> wrote:

                    I don’t mean to argue with those who advise glassing plywood in deck and cockpit areas, but I do want to register the advantages of not doing so. Let’s remember the savings in epoxy and fiberglass and time and labor and weight. Let’s remember that only fir plywood checks badly. Oukoume doesn’t and of course still better mahogany plywoods don’t. Let’s remember that plywood glassed on both sides can’t get rid of moisture and will rot fast f it does get wet, and that moisture will follow the grain in laminates of plywood a long long way. Let’s remember that paint breathes vapor pretty freely, while it does seal and protect against wear and water. In short, for most small plywood trailer-sailers and other dry-sailed plywood boats, paint is fine for cockpits and decks. I would only prime with epoxy after sanding and shaping fillets and while giving them and the tapes their final coat of epoxy. I leave off what glass I can, even topsides, and I use very light glass anywhere I do use it, mainly to guarantee a uniform layer of epoxy, except on bottoms.
                     
                    These observations come from a builder who finds modern “composite� boatbuilding, with plywood and fiberglass and epoxy, almost too slow and laborious! Oh for joints put together once and fastened and done with, so neat and clean! Just think how fast you could build a dory, traditionally. Paint it and go rowing, while the rest of us Instant Boatmakers are still coating and grinding and laying on glass.
                     
                    Dynel, by the way, as we’ve used it on Reuben’s restorations of the Sound Inter Clubs, for decks and cabin-tops, is more texture than I’d want, myself. A little sand in the paint, as Susanne suggests, over glass, would be enough, and save weight and money.
                     
                    De gustibus non est disputandum.  Mason
                     
                    From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Lavoie
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:49 AM
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

                     
                     
                    A little extra work now saves you a ton of extra work later.  Epoxy, fiberglass and paint.  The only thing I use Dynel for is abrasion resistance.  Fiberglass is stronger structurally and lighter since it requires less resin.

                    Jed

                     
                     

                    From: "a.c.l.yen@..." <a.c.l.yen@...>
                    To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:52 AM
                    Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

                     
                     
                    I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).
                     
                    From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.
                     
                    But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  
                     
                    What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.
                     
                    Andrew
                     



                  • Mark Albanese
                    I tried posting this here yesterday but the message has not shown up. No telling how long it will last, but this moderator s plugin will work in Firefox on any
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 11, 2013
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                      I tried posting this here yesterday but the message has not shown up.

                      No telling how long it will last, but this moderator's plugin will work in Firefox on any platform to give you back the old look.


                    • MylesJ. Swift
                      Yahoo is badly screwed up right now. The on line mail doesn t work right but pulling it down with Outlook works. I lost a $2,500 sale this week because Yahoo
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 12, 2013
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                        Yahoo is badly screwed up right now. The on line mail doesn’t work right but pulling it down with Outlook works. I lost a $2,500 sale this week because Yahoo mail was blocked for nearly a day by Spamcop and I didn’t get a bounce soon enough to contact the customer again. News is unusable. It runs the CPU into turbo mode and stays there for several minutes with everything else frozen. I’ve had my personal and company email and web sites and e-commerce there for 15 years, but won’t by the end of the month. I’m not sure if they started using the Google V8 stuff and are forcing the issue by breaking anything that can’t handle V8. Personally I don’t allow any scripting in the browsers on the company machines. You get a few pages that don’t work. You can’t get 90% of the malware if you don’t allow scripting and don’t run as full admin.

                         

                        MylesJ

                      • otter55806
                        You should maybe be looking at your computer being infected. I am not having any of the problems you mention. My email is working normally. I don t like the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 13, 2013
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                          You should maybe be looking at your computer being infected. I am not having any of the problems you mention.  My email is working normally.  I don't like the changes to the groups, especially the way it takes clicking to two pages tor reply to post, but it does work. I run No Script also and that is working normally.  In short, while some of the changes are a nuisance everything does work. If it all works on my computer and it is not working on yours you should be looking at your computer and not Yahoo.

                          Bob



                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Yahoo is badly screwed up right now. The on line mail doesn’t work right but pulling it down with Outlook works. I lost a $2,500 sale this week because Yahoo mail was blocked for nearly a day by Spamcop and I didn’t get a bounce soon enough to contact the customer again. News is unusable. It runs the CPU into turbo mode and stays there for several minutes with everything else frozen. I’ve had my personal and company email and web sites and e-commerce there for 15 years, but won’t by the end of the month. I’m not sure if they started using the Google V8 stuff and are forcing the issue by breaking anything that can’t handle V8. Personally I don’t allow any scripting in the browsers on the company machines. You get a few pages that don’t work. You can’t get 90% of the malware if you don’t allow scripting and don’t run as full admin.

                           

                          MylesJ

                        • Mark Albanese
                          I also have to do extra clicking on links and to help refresh the page. markA ... I also have to do extra clicking on links and to help refresh the page. markA
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 13, 2013
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                            I also have to do extra clicking on links and to help refresh the page.

                            markA

                            On Sep 13, 2013 6:43 AM, <otter55806@...> wrote:
                             

                            You should maybe be looking at your computer being infected. I am not having any of the problems you mention.  My email is working normally.  I don't like the changes to the groups, especially the way it takes clicking to two pages tor reply to post, but it does work. I run No Script also and that is working normally.  In short, while some of the changes are a nuisance everything does work. If it all works on my computer and it is not working on yours you should be looking at your computer and not Yahoo.

                            Bob



                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Yahoo is badly screwed up right now. The on line mail doesn’t work right but pulling it down with Outlook works. I lost a $2,500 sale this week because Yahoo mail was blocked for nearly a day by Spamcop and I didn’t get a bounce soon enough to contact the customer again. News is unusable. It runs the CPU into turbo mode and stays there for several minutes with everything else frozen. I’ve had my personal and company email and web sites and e-commerce there for 15 years, but won’t by the end of the month. I’m not sure if they started using the Google V8 stuff and are forcing the issue by breaking anything that can’t handle V8. Personally I don’t allow any scripting in the browsers on the company machines. You get a few pages that don’t work. You can’t get 90% of the malware if you don’t allow scripting and don’t run as full admin.

                             

                            MylesJ

                          • dnjost
                            this is an interesting thread. I have successfully stored my boats under simple A frame tarps for years with no ill effects. I agree that that key is to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 16, 2013
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                              this is an interesting thread.  I have successfully stored my boats under simple A frame tarps for years with no ill effects.  I agree that that key is to prevent water from pooling, and to ensure good air circulation under the tarp.  Current boat has 6oz glass set in epoxy on all surfaces.  So far, so good 4 years later!  no delam at all.  


                              FYI - i tied a steel cable to a large tree and then to a frame positioned at the tongue of the trailer.  Then, draped a tarp over the whole contraption and held it to the rail of the boat with C clamps.  This keeps the snow off as well.  it is kind of fun to sneak under the tarp and work on the boat in the middle of winter while laughing off the weather.  


                              Happy building,

                              David Jost   



                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              stored a small ply trailer sailer under a large plastic tarp for a year and had zero success in stopping water puddling in the boat no matter how i arranged the tarp.  if nothing else, condensation in damp weather - even overnight dew -dripped off the contact points into the boat.
                              i now store it under a FREE-STANDING plastic tent (what is herabouts called an "igloo") and the airspace around seems to evaporate more water than gets in (though the salt spray residues sometimes gather water drops)
                               
                              rgds, frank
                               

                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              From: a.c.l.yen@...
                              Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 19:22:15 -0700
                              Subject: [bolger] RE: Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit



                              I have another smaller trailer boat that doesn't get looked after as well as it should (I spend my spare time building the Chebacco, not maintaining the old boat the Chebacco will eventually replace.)  I have found the foredeck suffers the most from weather and damage, so I will go with glass and epoxy on the deck and in the cockpit.


                              I have acquired some tins of Dulux Aquanamel http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/trim/product-detail?product=2184 which I intend to use on the deck and in the cockpit.  It is water based but higher gloss and hardness than your average acrylic paint.  It is used for doors and trim, inside and outside houses. I have noticed that the acrylic paint on my Cartopper  and on my Eureka Canoe tends to rub off where it comes in contact with the trailer etc.  Hopefully the Aquanamel will provide the benefits of acrylic with the hardness of an oil based paint.


                              Any thoughts or experience on this sort of paint?


                              Andrew




                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <goodboat@...> wrote:

                              I don’t mean to argue with those who advise glassing plywood in deck and cockpit areas, but I do want to register the advantages of not doing so. Let’s remember the savings in epoxy and fiberglass and time and labor and weight. Let’s remember that only fir plywood checks badly. Oukoume doesn’t and of course still better mahogany plywoods don’t. Let’s remember that plywood glassed on both sides can’t get rid of moisture and will rot fast f it does get wet, and that moisture will follow the grain in laminates of plywood a long long way. Let’s remember that paint breathes vapor pretty freely, while it does seal and protect against wear and water. In short, for most small plywood trailer-sailers and other dry-sailed plywood boats, paint is fine for cockpits and decks. I would only prime with epoxy after sanding and shaping fillets and while giving them and the tapes their final coat of epoxy. I leave off what glass I can, even topsides, and I use very light glass anywhere I do use it, mainly to guarantee a uniform layer of epoxy, except on bottoms.
                               
                              These observations come from a builder who finds modern “composite� boatbuilding, with plywood and fiberglass and epoxy, almost too slow and laborious! Oh for joints put together once and fastened and done with, so neat and clean! Just think how fast you could build a dory, traditionally. Paint it and go rowing, while the rest of us Instant Boatmakers are still coating and grinding and laying on glass.
                               
                              Dynel, by the way, as we’ve used it on Reuben’s restorations of the Sound Inter Clubs, for decks and cabin-tops, is more texture than I’d want, myself. A little sand in the paint, as Susanne suggests, over glass, would be enough, and save weight and money.
                               
                              De gustibus non est disputandum.  Mason
                               
                              From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Lavoie
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:49 AM
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

                               
                               
                              A little extra work now saves you a ton of extra work later.  Epoxy, fiberglass and paint.  The only thing I use Dynel for is abrasion resistance.  Fiberglass is stronger structurally and lighter since it requires less resin.

                              Jed

                               
                               

                              From: "a.c.l.yen@..." <a.c.l.yen@...>
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:52 AM
                              Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit

                               
                               
                              I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).
                               
                              From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.
                               
                              But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar.  
                               
                              What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.
                               
                              Andrew
                               



                            • dnjost
                              dynel is for when you want to duplicate the look of canvas, but want a more peramanent solution. I found it tougher to fill the weave. --- In
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 16, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment

                                dynel is for when you want to duplicate the look of canvas, but want a more peramanent solution. I found it tougher to fill the weave.   



                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, <bolger@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                On 39’x7’5x1’x 225hp SACPAS-3 all outside surfaces were glassed with 10-oz cloth set in epoxy, plus coats of oil-based paint.
                                Local commercial repair yard doing steel draggers, tugs, wooden schooners etc. suggest using hard-edged sand-blasting ‘shot’ to sprinkle salt-shaker-fashion into the wet-paint, with another coat helping to keep the ‘traction’ in place.  Avoid that non-slip around cleats and on-deck moving lines as both skin and fibers will be abraded...

                                Ditto on Jed’s glass-cloth comment versus Dynel.
                                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                                 
                                Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:02 AM
                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit
                                 
                                 

                                Good question.
                                After all this work, I’d go conservative.
                                Glass-cloth in epoxy, plus paint (with non-slip in wet paint plus another coat), all for physical wear and protection from the effects of sun/heat, whether afloat or on wheels.
                                Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
                                 
                                Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:52 AM
                                Subject: [bolger] Paint, Glass or Dynel for my cockpit
                                 
                                 

                                I am thinking about what to coat the cockpit plywood with in my Chebacco 25 build. (that indicates that I am getting closer to finished - the cockpit is almost finished and the cabin structure is being built ).

                                 
                                From what I have read and experienced with other boats, I should be glassing the foredeck to protect from checking and damage .  I might use Dynel as an alternative as it did pretty well on the bottom of my Cartopper.
                                 
                                But if the foredeck needs protecting then surely the cockpit will need similar. 
                                 
                                What advice/experience is there for how much coating is enough.  Epoxy+paint? Epoxy+glass+paint?, what paint?.  The boat will basically be a trailer sailer so should have a cover on it most of the time - but "should" doesn't mean that it won't blow off.
                                 
                                Andrew
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