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Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser

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  • David
    4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 22, 2013
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      4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it is.

      Sitting in my dreaming chair the other day I was struck yet again when reading BWAOM by the similarity in size and layout between these two designs and started thinking (always dangerous). I first was tempted to take the JBC rig which would be so much easier to transport and rig than Oldshoes. I then went on to notice that JBC does not have the well in the bow and stern, thereby effectively sailing in her full length rather than a 8.5' watertight envelope within a 12' boat. Then, of course the leeboards are great fun and so on and so forth.

      Any ideas on how the JBC rig would go with Oldshoe keeping the keel and inboard. Rudder? I don't fancy taking the lead keel off to experiment with leeboards... (At least yet).

      David
      Santiago, Chile
      (Studying my AS39 plans)
    • John Trussell
      David, Anything is possible. PCB says that the rig he used on Old Shoe is, .the best all-around rig for daytime cruising in crowded waters. I suspect he chose
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 22, 2013
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        David,

         

        Anything is possible. PCB says that the rig he used on Old Shoe is,”…the best all-around rig for daytime cruising in crowded waters.” I suspect he chose to use a sprit main sail in the Japanese Beach Cruiser because the short spars allow the rig to be taken down and stored inside the boat. I note that sails without booms are attractive because they don’t have a boom to hit someone’s head. However, they do require some care in arranging sheeting and they present some challenges sailing off the wind. Unless you are having problems stepping the mast, I would be inclined to keep the original rig and get new sails.

         

        JohnT

         


        From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David
        Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 7:38 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser

         

         

        4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it is.

        Sitting in my dreaming chair the other day I was struck yet again when reading BWAOM by the similarity in size and layout between these two designs and started thinking (always dangerous). I first was tempted to take the JBC rig which would be so much easier to transport and rig than Oldshoes. I then went on to notice that JBC does not have the well in the bow and stern, thereby effectively sailing in her full length rather than a 8.5' watertight envelope within a 12' boat. Then, of course the leeboards are great fun and so on and so forth.

        Any ideas on how the JBC rig would go with Oldshoe keeping the keel and inboard. Rudder? I don't fancy taking the lead keel off to experiment with leeboards... (At least yet).

        David
        Santiago , Chile
        (Studying my AS39 plans)

      • prairiedog2332
        I notice the yard on the JBC is longer than the mast is tall. It would seem to me that the Oldshoe main would be much less awkward to reef if the wind picks
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 22, 2013
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          I notice the yard on the JBC is longer than the mast is tall. It would seem to me that the Oldshoe main would be much less awkward to reef if the wind picks up.

          I also think the reefing idea in mesg  #69346 for Long Micro sounds like a great idea. Oldshoe has excellent access to the mast as well  when reefing. Very unappreciated design.


          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwIcfSNEasU


          Nels

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@...> wrote:
          >
          > 4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it is.
          >
          > Sitting in my dreaming chair the other day I was struck yet again when reading BWAOM by the similarity in size and layout between these two designs and started thinking (always dangerous). I first was tempted to take the JBC rig which would be so much easier to transport and rig than Oldshoes. I then went on to notice that JBC does not have the well in the bow and stern, thereby effectively sailing in her full length rather than a 8.5' watertight envelope within a 12' boat. Then, of course the leeboards are great fun and so on and so forth.
          >
          > Any ideas on how the JBC rig would go with Oldshoe keeping the keel and inboard. Rudder? I don't fancy taking the lead keel off to experiment with leeboards... (At least yet).
          >
          > David
          > Santiago, Chile
          > (Studying my AS39 plans)
          >
        • Joe T
          ... Very unappreciated design. ... If you haven t seen them, Photos of my Oldshoe in Bolger 6:
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 22, 2013
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:

            Very unappreciated design.
            >
            If you haven't seen them, Photos of my Oldshoe in Bolger 6:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/files/Joe%20Tribulato%27s%20Oldshoe/

            Australian Oldshoe video:

            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwIcfSNEasU
            >
            > Nels


            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@> wrote:
            > >
            > > 4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well
            > sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether
            > to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until
            > now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it
            > is.
            > >

            > > David
            > > Santiago, Chile
            > > (Studying my AS39 plans)
          • David
            Joe I agree that Oldshoe is unappreciated . As a day sailer and to send the kids out in their own (properly out of sight) it really takes some beating. I had
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 23, 2013
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              Joe

              I agree that Oldshoe is "unappreciated".

              As a day sailer and to send the kids out in their own (properly out of sight) it really takes some beating.

              I had great fun building and continue to have great fun sailing. I have absolutely no regrets about having built and it has definitely been a lot of fun for the money (both building and sailing). Realistically she is easy to trailer (except the launching on beaches or bad ramps) and a real joy to mess about in. The mast is only a problem for trailering. Stepping it has never been an issue for me.

              My doubt is whether a it's actually worth having a 12' ballasted boat you have to trailer. For similar trouble and little more investment I could have had a 15 or 20' boat which would be a lot more boat. Storing and upkeep of the 12' is much easier of course.

              For what she is, I think Oldshoe is fantastic and a tribute to her designer.

              David.

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe T" <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@> wrote:
              >
              > Very unappreciated design.
              > >
              > If you haven't seen them, Photos of my Oldshoe in Bolger 6:
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger6/files/Joe%20Tribulato%27s%20Oldshoe/
              >
              > Australian Oldshoe video:
              >
              > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwIcfSNEasU
              > >
              > > Nels
              >
              >
              > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > 4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well
              > > sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether
              > > to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until
              > > now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it
              > > is.
              > > >
              >
              > > > David
              > > > Santiago, Chile
              > > > (Studying my AS39 plans)
              >
            • prairiedog2332
              I often thought a small removable Birdwatcher style structure a la SUPERMOUSE might be a fun thing to try? Probably the same main as the MOUSE in order
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 24, 2013
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                I often thought a small removable "Birdwatcher" style structure a la SUPERMOUSE  might be a fun thing to try? Probably the same main  as  the MOUSE in order for the foot of the sail to clear the top of it. Easy to experiment with in polytarp. It would extend the sailing season for an OLDSHOE  and offer more weather protection. Often regretted passing on plans.

                Nels 


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@...> wrote:
                >
                > Joe
                >
                > I agree that Oldshoe is "unappreciated".
                >
                > As a day sailer and to send the kids out in their own (properly out of sight) it really takes some beating.
                >
                > I had great fun building and continue to have great fun sailing. I have absolutely no regrets about having built and it has definitely been a lot of fun for the money (both building and sailing). Realistically she is easy to trailer (except the launching on beaches or bad ramps) and a real joy to mess about in. The mast is only a problem for trailering. Stepping it has never been an issue for me.
                >
                > My doubt is whether a it's actually worth having a 12' ballasted boat you have to trailer. For similar trouble and little more investment I could have had a 15 or 20' boat which would be a lot more boat. Storing and upkeep of the 12' is much easier of course.
                >
                > For what she is, I think Oldshoe is fantastic and a tribute to her designer.
                >
                > David.
                >

              • gravelyrider
                when spring gets to upstate ny i ll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 25, 2013
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                  when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > 4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it is.
                  >
                  > Sitting in my dreaming chair the other day I was struck yet again when reading BWAOM by the similarity in size and layout between these two designs and started thinking (always dangerous). I first was tempted to take the JBC rig which would be so much easier to transport and rig than Oldshoes. I then went on to notice that JBC does not have the well in the bow and stern, thereby effectively sailing in her full length rather than a 8.5' watertight envelope within a 12' boat. Then, of course the leeboards are great fun and so on and so forth.
                  >
                  > Any ideas on how the JBC rig would go with Oldshoe keeping the keel and inboard. Rudder? I don't fancy taking the lead keel off to experiment with leeboards... (At least yet).
                  >
                  > David
                  > Santiago, Chile
                  > (Studying my AS39 plans)
                  >
                • David
                  What size is the balanced lug? Its Coe is a lot further aft than the original. It will be interesting to see how she sails. Do you intend to keep the mizzen?
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 26, 2013
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                    What size is the balanced lug? Its Coe is a lot further aft than the original. It will be interesting to see how she sails.

                    Do you intend to keep the mizzen?

                    David

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravelyrider" <denandel01@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > 4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it is.
                    > >
                    > > Sitting in my dreaming chair the other day I was struck yet again when reading BWAOM by the similarity in size and layout between these two designs and started thinking (always dangerous). I first was tempted to take the JBC rig which would be so much easier to transport and rig than Oldshoes. I then went on to notice that JBC does not have the well in the bow and stern, thereby effectively sailing in her full length rather than a 8.5' watertight envelope within a 12' boat. Then, of course the leeboards are great fun and so on and so forth.
                    > >
                    > > Any ideas on how the JBC rig would go with Oldshoe keeping the keel and inboard. Rudder? I don't fancy taking the lead keel off to experiment with leeboards... (At least yet).
                    > >
                    > > David
                    > > Santiago, Chile
                    > > (Studying my AS39 plans)
                    > >
                    >
                  • gravelyrider
                    The lug sail is a 74 sq ft, just about the same size as the original LOM. The COE is in the same place as the original so I hope there will not be any major
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 26, 2013
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                      The lug sail is a 74 sq ft, just about the same size as the original LOM.

                      The COE is in the same place as the original so I hope there will not be any major issues sailing her. Since the pic was taken, I have adjusted the mast a little more upright. The mizzen is staying.

                      See this photo to show the new sail COE lined up over the old COE.


                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/764333064/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc


                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What size is the balanced lug? Its Coe is a lot further aft than the original. It will be interesting to see how she sails.
                      >
                      > Do you intend to keep the mizzen?
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravelyrider" <denandel01@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.
                      > >
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dir_cobb@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > 4 years ago I built Oldshoe which has been much enjoyed and well sailed. I am coming round to a major maintenance and wondering whether to order a suit of sails to replace the polytarp ones I have used until now. In all fairness I love the boat and the way it works for what it is.
                      > > >
                      > > > Sitting in my dreaming chair the other day I was struck yet again when reading BWAOM by the similarity in size and layout between these two designs and started thinking (always dangerous). I first was tempted to take the JBC rig which would be so much easier to transport and rig than Oldshoes. I then went on to notice that JBC does not have the well in the bow and stern, thereby effectively sailing in her full length rather than a 8.5' watertight envelope within a 12' boat. Then, of course the leeboards are great fun and so on and so forth.
                      > > >
                      > > > Any ideas on how the JBC rig would go with Oldshoe keeping the keel and inboard. Rudder? I don't fancy taking the lead keel off to experiment with leeboards... (At least yet).
                      > > >
                      > > > David
                      > > > Santiago, Chile
                      > > > (Studying my AS39 plans)
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Dave Gentry
                      ... Just wanted to say that the balanced lug rig looks good on the Old Shoe - and is likely just what that boat needs to make it more user friendly. Looking
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 26, 2013
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravelyrider" <denandel01@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

                        Just wanted to say that the balanced lug rig looks good on the Old Shoe - and is likely just what that boat needs to make it more user friendly. Looking forward to hearing how it works out!

                        Good luck - Dave Gentry
                      • frank raisin
                        hi folks,just a thought - but i find i have gone off lugs and balanced lugs unless they are easily controlled. when it all starts getting a bit unsettling, i
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 27, 2013
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                          hi folks,
                          just a thought - but i find i have gone off lugs and balanced lugs unless they are easily controlled.  when it all starts getting a bit unsettling, i don't want a loose log up there in the sky banging around wanting to brain me - and another thing with most 'hoist a spar' rigs that ups my anxiety stakes is that as one eases the sheet when hard pressed they tend , instead of relaxing progressively, they can power up even more!  the popular sprit rig seems worst in this regard - like trying to go to windward with a parachute spinnaker, it powers up as you ease the sheet - then dumps the power all at once and flogs - most disconcerting!

                          i was brought up on fully battened Bermudan mains - most civilized -  not only did the stress reduce progressively and proportionally as the sheet was eased but the full battens reduced the flogging (but i have experienced a gust so heavy it caused the battened main to flog - and so heavily it pulled me over - .....)

                          i think that Phil was sensible to prefer leg o' mutton because they tend to self-tend and progressively feather off at the top.  they are long enough in the foot to have enough power in a simple sail , and the mast , though long, is heavily tapered (theoretically it can taper to nothing - or just enough to tie off to).  in the usual application of minimal sophistication this rig is all round forgiving (IMVHO!) - and the sprit boom further removes the risks of being clubbed

                          frank (didn't mean to rant)

                          ps just to complete my thesis i would suggest that the Fully Battened Bermudan is the natural fulfillment of the (misguidedly popular IMO) Junk rig.  - just don't use a bolt rope in a track - use slides or lacing so it dowses.

                          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: alias1719@...
                          > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:32:57 +0000
                          > Subject: [bolger] Re: Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravelyrider" <denandel01@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.
                          > >
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&amp;mode=tn&amp;order=ordinal&amp;start=1&amp;count=20&amp;dir=asc
                          >
                          > Just wanted to say that the balanced lug rig looks good on the Old Shoe - and is likely just what that boat needs to make it more user friendly. Looking forward to hearing how it works out!
                          >
                          > Good luck - Dave Gentry
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
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                        • John Trussell
                          There is no free lunch. Bermuda mains require a longer mast. With a conventional boom, they generally require a boom vang. A sprit boom is a marvelous
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 28, 2013
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                            There is no free lunch.

                             

                            Bermuda mains require a longer mast. With a conventional boom, they generally require a boom vang. A sprit boom is a marvelous solution, but if you reef a sail with a sprit boom, the boom moves forward where it will interfere with a jib. Lowering any sail with a spar at its head can be a challenge, particularly in a breeze. In the case of lug sails, this can be made easier if the boat has lazy jacks, but the lazy jacks are a complication, requiring a little bit of hardware and quite a lot of line. I prefer a lug on small boats because it is efficient and fairly well behaved off the wind. Sprit sails use short spars which are easily stored and they are difficult to control off the wind. Pulling a sprit out of the sail on a breezy day can be a challenge, but a brailing line will take the stress out of this process. But nothing is perfect. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. Each of us place different values on the advantages and disadvantages. The only valid reason to build your own boat (other than whatever pleasure you get from the process) is to have a boat that suits/pleases you. Build whichever rig you like.

                             

                            Anyone contemplating changing rigs would do well to read Jim Michalak’s essays on figuring centers of sail area, PCB’s 100 Small Boat Rigs, and David Nichol’s The Working Guide to Traditional Small-Boat Sails.

                             

                            Have fun.

                             

                            JohnT

                             


                            From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto: bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of frank raisin
                            Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:44 PM
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser

                             

                             

                            hi folks,

                            just a thought - but i find i have gone off lugs and balanced lugs unless they are easily controlled.  when it all starts getting a bit unsettling, i don't want a loose log up there in the sky banging around wanting to brain me - and another thing with most 'hoist a spar' rigs that ups my anxiety stakes is that as one eases the sheet when hard pressed they tend , instead of relaxing progressively, they can power up even more!  the popular sprit rig seems worst in this regard - like trying to go to windward with a parachute spinnaker, it powers up as you ease the sheet - then dumps the power all at once and flogs - most disconcerting!

                             

                            i was brought up on fully battened Bermudan mains - most civilized -  not only did the stress reduce progressively and proportionally as the sheet was eased but the full battens reduced the flogging (but i have experienced a gust so heavy it caused the battened main to flog - and so heavily it pulled me over - .....)

                             

                            i think that Phil was sensible to prefer leg o' mutton because they tend to self-tend and progressively feather off at the top.  they are long enough in the foot to have enough power in a simple sail , and the mast , though long, is heavily tapered (theoretically it can taper to nothing - or just enough to tie off to).  in the usual application of minimal sophistication this rig is all round forgiving (IMVHO!) - and the sprit boom further removes the risks of being clubbed

                             

                            frank (didn't mean to rant)

                             

                            ps just to complete my thesis i would suggest that the Fully Battened Bermudan is the natural fulfillment of the (misguidedly popular IMO) Junk rig.  - just don't use a bolt rope in a track - use slides or lacing so it dowses.

                            > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com

                            > From: alias1719@...
                            > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:32:57 +0000
                            > Subject: [bolger] Re: Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com ,
                            "gravelyrider" <denandel01@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with
                            lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.
                            > >
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&amp;mode=tn&amp;order=ordinal&amp;start=1&amp;count=20&amp;dir=asc
                            >
                            > Just wanted to say that the balanced lug rig looks good on the Old Shoe -
                            and is likely just what that boat needs to make it more user friendly. Looking forward to hearing how it works out!
                            >
                            > Good luck - Dave Gentry
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
                            horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O.
                            Box 1209 , Gloucester , MA , 01930 , Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
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                          • MylesJ. Swift
                            Frank, I ve never wanted a regular lug rig with that heavy flail looking for someone to hit. The late model balanced lugs are different. With both booms
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 28, 2013
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                              Frank,

                               

                              I’ve never wanted a regular lug rig with that heavy flail looking for someone to hit. The late model balanced lugs are different. With both booms captured to the mast and light high strength booms they aren’t so dangerous.  Some of those run 6:1 purchases even on sails under 100 square feet.

                               

                              MylesJ

                            • Mike Graf
                              Good points all! I d have to agree on the lug choice. Just talked to a fellow sailor. She ran a Chebaco up and down the New England coast with an _undersized_
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 2, 2013
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                                Good points all!  I'd have to agree on the lug choice. Just talked to a fellow sailor. She ran a Chebaco up and down the New England coast with an undersized lug and had great luck with it She rigged it w/Mat Laden?? Home made Boom roller....said it worked great. She had a very undersized electric outboard so she really did SAIL THE COAST
                                 Her insightful comment was "It seems like it's more common to have to much wind than not enough" Smaller sails are always easier to handle
                                    Conditions /needs are alway local  New England Coast...good wind?...slippery Bolger hull(cause it wasn't his rig) Bolger believed in a generous rig..that's one of the reasons his boats are so fast!
                                    And then maybe the most valuable component was her ability/gumption to take the summer to mess around in a not so small boat    Great Fun

                                On 02/28/2013 07:51 AM, John Trussell wrote:
                                 

                                There is no free lunch.

                                 

                                Bermuda mains require a longer mast. With a conventional boom, they generally require a boom vang. A sprit boom is a marvelous solution, but if you reef a sail with a sprit boom, the boom moves forward where it will interfere with a jib. Lowering any sail with a spar at its head can be a challenge, particularly in a breeze. In the case of lug sails, this can be made easier if the boat has lazy jacks, but the lazy jacks are a complication, requiring a little bit of hardware and quite a lot of line. I prefer a lug on small boats because it is efficient and fairly well behaved off the wind. Sprit sails use short spars which are easily stored and they are difficult to control off the wind. Pulling a sprit out of the sail on a breezy day can be a challenge, but a brailing line will take the stress out of this process. But nothing is perfect. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. Each of us place different values on the advantages and disadvantages. The only valid reason to build your own boat (other than whatever pleasure you get from the process) is to have a boat that suits/pleases you. Build whichever rig you like.

                                 

                                Anyone contemplating changing rigs would do well to read Jim Michalak’s essays on figuring centers of sail area, PCB’s 100 Small Boat Rigs, and David Nichol’s The Working Guide to Traditional Small-Boat Sails.

                                 

                                Have fun.

                                 

                                JohnT

                                 


                                From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of frank raisin
                                Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:44 PM
                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser

                                 

                                 

                                hi folks,

                                just a thought - but i find i have gone off lugs and balanced lugs unless they are easily controlled.  when it all starts getting a bit unsettling, i don't want a loose log up there in the sky banging around wanting to brain me - and another thing with most 'hoist a spar' rigs that ups my anxiety stakes is that as one eases the sheet when hard pressed they tend , instead of relaxing progressively, they can power up even more!  the popular sprit rig seems worst in this regard - like trying to go to windward with a parachute spinnaker, it powers up as you ease the sheet - then dumps the power all at once and flogs - most disconcerting!

                                 

                                i was brought up on fully battened Bermudan mains - most civilized -  not only did the stress reduce progressively and proportionally as the sheet was eased but the full battens reduced the flogging (but i have experienced a gust so heavy it caused the battened main to flog - and so heavily it pulled me over - .....)

                                 

                                i think that Phil was sensible to prefer leg o' mutton because they tend to self-tend and progressively feather off at the top.  they are long enough in the foot to have enough power in a simple sail , and the mast , though long, is heavily tapered (theoretically it can taper to nothing - or just enough to tie off to).  in the usual application of minimal sophistication this rig is all round forgiving (IMVHO!) - and the sprit boom further removes the risks of being clubbed

                                 

                                frank (didn't mean to rant)

                                 

                                ps just to complete my thesis i would suggest that the Fully Battened Bermudan is the natural fulfillment of the (misguidedly popular IMO) Junk rig.  - just don't use a bolt rope in a track - use slides or lacing so it dowses.

                                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: alias1719@...
                                > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:32:57 +0000
                                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Oldshoe / Japanese beach cruiser
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com , "gravelyrider" <denandel01@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > when spring gets to upstate ny i'll let you know how my Oldshoe with lug rig works. the mast is a lot easier to transport than the 19 footer originally planned for.
                                > >
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/album/1239860332/pic/624499304/view?picmode=&amp;mode=tn&amp;order=ordinal&amp;start=1&amp;count=20&amp;dir=asc
                                >
                                > Just wanted to say that the balanced lug rig looks good on the Old Shoe - and is likely just what that boat needs to make it more user friendly. Looking forward to hearing how it works out!
                                >
                                > Good luck - Dave Gentry
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
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                              • Rob Kellock
                                I ve used a battened shaped polytarp balanced lug on my Michalak Philsboat for many seasons now. I use a peak halyard to control the yard when lowering the
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 2, 2013
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                                  I've used a battened shaped polytarp balanced lug on my Michalak Philsboat for many seasons now. I use a peak halyard to control the yard when lowering the sail and lazyjacks to hold the sail bundle. The light battens (there's just two of them) do double duty as reefing points and are attached to the mast with fixed parrels.

                                  I've found the rig to be very well behaved on all points of sail and with that large wall of sail let out 90 degrees downwind the boat flys. The battens and fixed parrels ensure that the sail doesn't billow
                                  when it's being lowered and also keep the strain on the polytarp fabric down so that it doesn't stretch.

                                  A lot of polytarp sails are simply rags put up on a stick, but with a bit of thought your homebuilt sail can be effective. Over the years, I've taken a number of experienced sailors out. They come away scratching their heads at the utility, all round performance and power of a rig that they invariably pre-judge as being a toy.

                                  Here's a YouTube video of her in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2Jo9QAI3Y

                                  Cheers,


                                  Rob.

                                  > frank (didn't mean to rant)
                                  > ps just to complete my thesis i would suggest that the Fully Battened Bermudan is the natural fulfillment of the (misguidedly popular IMO) Junk rig. - just don't use a bolt rope in a track - use slides or lacing so it dowses.
                                  >
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