Re: [bolger] Re: paul fisher's loose moose 11 and phil bolger's loose moose 11
- Mr. Bolger designed Wolftrap for me or rather my Parteners and my Machine shop. The idea being that we were particularly capable of building a nice aluminum boat and hoped to sell one or two boats a year and no more, Plus the prototypes would be our own personal boats. The first design was 28ft long and we mocked her up out of cheap door paneling to get a feel for her. WE desided to increase her to 30ft for just a little more comfort and we also felt 30ft might be better suited for the short wave length of the Chesapeake bay. You are right he did not design the same boat 2ft longer she was a much better boat in more ways than just a couple feet difference. The boat quickly took on a local reputation as that funny looking fast boat. We built her over 30 years ago and I still hear the term occasinally. She was not a funny looking boat and was quite handsome but her cat yawl rig with sprit booms certainly were strange from the local point of view. Doug
On 02/14/2013 03:57 PM, David wrote:
My understanding is that Loose Moose is Bob & Sheila Wise's name for their boat (and business among other things). Loose Moose was a Jessie Cooper, Loose Moose II was the Bolger AS39, I assume Loose Moose III or IV is their current boat and that Loose Moose IV or V will be the next one. Fisher's Loose Moose was a design for the Wise's but no relation to Bolger's. The size of boat was defined by the client requirements and I presume that the general style from the construction constraints/experience with Jessie Cooper. However, I see no more connection between them than between Bolger's Apogee and Chuck Paine's Apogee. They are two completely different designs with the same name.
Having the full plans of LMII (studied in detail with the view to building) I am ever more convinced that Phil Bolger's legacy needs to be passed on and built on.
Bolger writes in BWAOM that AS29 is derived from Jessie Cooper and LMII is clearly a member of the same family. Being in proud posession of almost all Bolger books and a significant number of plans, I do not cease to be amazed by Phil Bolger's creativity, flexibility and practical common sense combined with a detailed knowledge of most things nautical.
Even leaving aside the "conventional professional boatyard" designs, one can see a connection between many of PCB's designs, yet unlike other designers, few are a simple "stretched version" of something else.
Even cases like Chebacco (where he expressly states that he "stretched"...) there are subtle differences which for the most part have practical explanations. e.g. He goes from plywood panel to lapstrake, does different cuddys/trunks, keel/centreboard options. To boot, PB&F then go on to offer all the options as a package and call them the same boat and let you choose which version to build...
In the end, all boats are holes in the water that we play or work in. Bolger just varied on the theme during his life, all the way from Tortoise to Rose, in so many ways and so many shapes and sizes and styles that I cannot cease to wonder how so much came out of one brain and off one drawing board.
I often long to see the many designs that are not documented in the books or elsewhere, as I am convinced that every sketch, drawing and plan reveals a brilliant thought process not available anywhere else.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Douglas Pollard wrote:
> Yeah Mathew in a sense you are right they are different designs, but are
> they really. I grew up sailing sharpies and I would have never in my
> wildest dream thought anyone would would build a square sided box add a
> flat bottom with rocker and a chine that created so little drag and then
> add a barge type bow. You could say well it's just a box and that is the
> genius of Mr Bolger. Nobody in their right mind befor him would have
> ever suggested that you could go to sea in such a boat. Both boats
> have these same features in common and they are the things that make the
> boats sharpies. I think a huge part of Mr. Bolgers designs is that you
> can say , well hell that's nothing but a square box and the next thing
> you say is man look at her sail and anyone that knows which end of a
> screwdriver to look through can build her. Doug
> On 02/13/2013 05:56 AM, Matthew Long wrote:
> > I don't think that's right, there may be a spiritual connection with
> > Jessie Cooper but Loose Moose is definitely its own unique design.
> > --- In email@example.com ,
> > Douglas Pollard wrote:
> > >
> > > AS far as I know Loose Moose is an extended Jessie Cooper which
> > > originally was a bolger design. They changed her some with Schooner rig
> > > lee-boards and likely some other changes. I would guess that neither
> > > would have been Mr. Bolgers preferd set up. Maybe someone else designed
> > > those features???? Doug
> Doug Pollard,
> Sailor, Machinst, writer,artist
> Visit me at:
-- Doug Pollard, Sailor, Machinst, writer,artist Visit me at: http://sailboatsfairandfine.blogspot.com/